Jet* NZ OTP
Join Date: Aug 2007
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On time performance. HaHa!
Flew Jetstar this weekend.
Delayed 1 hour one way and 2 hours the other. Because of the return delay nearly didn't get home because of Fog.
Ok, they will be having teething problems, but it hasn't gotten better from day 1.
Because of the delays the terminals and security can't cope with the extra people having to hang around for hours. There are no staff in the departure areas and the monitors display times and gates that must be just guessed at.
Once on board the crew were friendly and everything went as planned.
Qantas managed to hold on to some loyal business travellers while they cancelled lots of flights, Jetstar while be losing them fast. From the comments floating around they are not earning themselves any repeat business.
I read a report that reckons PacBlue will be out of NZ in 18 months.
If Jetstar doesn't sort it out soon they will be gone with Pacblue and ANZ the big winners!
Delayed 1 hour one way and 2 hours the other. Because of the return delay nearly didn't get home because of Fog.
Ok, they will be having teething problems, but it hasn't gotten better from day 1.
Because of the delays the terminals and security can't cope with the extra people having to hang around for hours. There are no staff in the departure areas and the monitors display times and gates that must be just guessed at.
Once on board the crew were friendly and everything went as planned.
Qantas managed to hold on to some loyal business travellers while they cancelled lots of flights, Jetstar while be losing them fast. From the comments floating around they are not earning themselves any repeat business.
I read a report that reckons PacBlue will be out of NZ in 18 months.
If Jetstar doesn't sort it out soon they will be gone with Pacblue and ANZ the big winners!
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Well as someone who has flown with them 6 times already domestically, I thought that I'd point out a few little things Ive most certainly noticed:
Firstly, their turnaround times, they really do need to be around 45 minutes. From what I can tell, the big delay seems to be cleaning and catering the aircraft. Disembarkation takes around 6 mins (normal) and boarding takes around 14 (well above average- air nz take 15 to do 133 pax, could be the dual processing they do at the gate...) That leaves 10 minutes for cleaning, and essentially 16 minutes for safety checks to be done under the current routine which should be do-able...but for whatever reason its not.
Then there is this mysterious paperwork which seems to hold everything up once everyone is seated (that will probably shorten the turnaround once the kinks have been ironed) - The cans issue, while they were an issue on the 1st flight, dont seem to be causing much of an issue now, they are generally locked and loaded while pax are still boarding, and havent so far been delayed due to them.
Now the reason im rambling on about all of these things is that currently my 'average' delay time is around 75minutes (longest being 4 hours on the first day). And to add insult to injury, I have arrived at Chistchurch Airport 45 mins before my flight is scheduled to leave and only to see my plane landing on the previous turnaround, that is it has to do an auckland return trip before coming to fetch me. The jetstar ground crew are also very unwilling to shift a jetflex passenger as 'check in closed 2 hours ago for that flight because that was when it was scheduled to leave' Yup. so if you check the website and see your flight is delayed by 3 hours and are smart enough to go to the airport two hours later, your gonna miss that flight. Think they shall be waiving goodbye to many business contracts in the near future.
On the other hand, everything goes very smoothly, no big hassles at check-in (so long as you meet all the conditions),boarding is orderly, and flights are uneventful (ill let you know when i first get diverted away from queenstown (15 trips there in next two months on them...sure to come a cropper at least once!))and you wouldnt know most people have only been working for a week. Very professional in that sense. Just been notified of their new-new schedule...will be an interesting phonecall trying to reorganise 84 sectors....
Firstly, their turnaround times, they really do need to be around 45 minutes. From what I can tell, the big delay seems to be cleaning and catering the aircraft. Disembarkation takes around 6 mins (normal) and boarding takes around 14 (well above average- air nz take 15 to do 133 pax, could be the dual processing they do at the gate...) That leaves 10 minutes for cleaning, and essentially 16 minutes for safety checks to be done under the current routine which should be do-able...but for whatever reason its not.
Then there is this mysterious paperwork which seems to hold everything up once everyone is seated (that will probably shorten the turnaround once the kinks have been ironed) - The cans issue, while they were an issue on the 1st flight, dont seem to be causing much of an issue now, they are generally locked and loaded while pax are still boarding, and havent so far been delayed due to them.
Now the reason im rambling on about all of these things is that currently my 'average' delay time is around 75minutes (longest being 4 hours on the first day). And to add insult to injury, I have arrived at Chistchurch Airport 45 mins before my flight is scheduled to leave and only to see my plane landing on the previous turnaround, that is it has to do an auckland return trip before coming to fetch me. The jetstar ground crew are also very unwilling to shift a jetflex passenger as 'check in closed 2 hours ago for that flight because that was when it was scheduled to leave' Yup. so if you check the website and see your flight is delayed by 3 hours and are smart enough to go to the airport two hours later, your gonna miss that flight. Think they shall be waiving goodbye to many business contracts in the near future.
On the other hand, everything goes very smoothly, no big hassles at check-in (so long as you meet all the conditions),boarding is orderly, and flights are uneventful (ill let you know when i first get diverted away from queenstown (15 trips there in next two months on them...sure to come a cropper at least once!))and you wouldnt know most people have only been working for a week. Very professional in that sense. Just been notified of their new-new schedule...will be an interesting phonecall trying to reorganise 84 sectors....
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Yes, well as reported this morning by stuff.co.nz:
Thousands caught in Jetstar rejig | Stuff.co.nz
Fair Use:
"Jetstar chief executive Bruce Buchanan said the new schedule was part of a refining process and would be "more robust and convenient for passengers".
Flights in and out of Wellington would be moved by between five minutes and 1 1/2 hours. The 4.15pm service to Christchurch would now leave at 2.45pm.
However, some Auckland passengers who had booked in to fly direct to Christchurch were in for a five-hour wait, with the 11.40am service moving to 4.40pm."
Interestingly havent hear anything from JQ themselves despite one of my flights leaving next week, tho sure enough looking on their website, and I only have 1 return Wellington flight that the schedule has stayed the same on!
Thousands caught in Jetstar rejig | Stuff.co.nz
Fair Use:
"Jetstar chief executive Bruce Buchanan said the new schedule was part of a refining process and would be "more robust and convenient for passengers".
Flights in and out of Wellington would be moved by between five minutes and 1 1/2 hours. The 4.15pm service to Christchurch would now leave at 2.45pm.
However, some Auckland passengers who had booked in to fly direct to Christchurch were in for a five-hour wait, with the 11.40am service moving to 4.40pm."
Interestingly havent hear anything from JQ themselves despite one of my flights leaving next week, tho sure enough looking on their website, and I only have 1 return Wellington flight that the schedule has stayed the same on!
Join Date: May 1999
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All this talk of a new schedule is strange as they have had these changed flight times out since 23/04/2009 as I have had a list of them for ages. I have the new schedule which runs from 24 June through til the 24 October. Looking through the changes outlined by their CEO there are also changes made to the revamped timetable so even that cant be correct.
Cheers Bazza
Cheers Bazza
"Jetstar chief executive Bruce Buchanan said the new schedule was part of a refining process and would be "more robust and convenient for passengers".
Jetstar took over from Qantas, surely they already knew what schedule was already working. Why would they need to refine it to "make it more robust and convenient"?
Talk about spin.
Join Date: Apr 2006
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OTP, wouldn't have anything to do with crap wx in eNZed, and lack of frequency for JQ...
Oh and is eNZed really big enuff for 3? And no, I do not work for any of them!
Just an interested observer.
Oh and is eNZed really big enuff for 3? And no, I do not work for any of them!
Just an interested observer.
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Re that chap going to Queenstown all those times, from what I understand:
- Jetstar regulated by CASA so their procedures/operation not monitered by NZCAA
- Hold CHC as the alternate instead of the usual Invercargill (4-5 hr bus ride compared to 2 hrs from Invers)
- Minimums much higher I am guessing.
- Not a lot of local experience into ZQN; terrain, wx, local traffic.
So I would choose AirNZ for all those reasons no matter what the price difference.
When the weather is good, either operator OK I guess
- Jetstar regulated by CASA so their procedures/operation not monitered by NZCAA
- Hold CHC as the alternate instead of the usual Invercargill (4-5 hr bus ride compared to 2 hrs from Invers)
- Minimums much higher I am guessing.
- Not a lot of local experience into ZQN; terrain, wx, local traffic.
So I would choose AirNZ for all those reasons no matter what the price difference.
When the weather is good, either operator OK I guess
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Thanks very much for your reply!
Unfortunately these tickets were booked rather far in advance(ticketed now as Qantas flight 4544 I believe now), and will probably end up biting the bullet and staying down there, was scheduled to commute every other day(with winterfest coming up and all), but with a track record and potential for meltdown, think money saved from flights could be put the well use at a local pub and a nice hotel room.
Only 5 months to go before our domestic contract with Qantas ends, and then its off to Air NZ for me. Was even told by one wiseguy from Qantas over the phone that I could expect comparable service to Qantas by Jetstar...all there was to ask was if he meant the delays!
Have fun everyone,
Sorry for hijacking a pilot forum for this!
Unfortunately these tickets were booked rather far in advance(ticketed now as Qantas flight 4544 I believe now), and will probably end up biting the bullet and staying down there, was scheduled to commute every other day(with winterfest coming up and all), but with a track record and potential for meltdown, think money saved from flights could be put the well use at a local pub and a nice hotel room.
Only 5 months to go before our domestic contract with Qantas ends, and then its off to Air NZ for me. Was even told by one wiseguy from Qantas over the phone that I could expect comparable service to Qantas by Jetstar...all there was to ask was if he meant the delays!
Have fun everyone,
Sorry for hijacking a pilot forum for this!
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Flying Spikes,
in relation to earlier question on turn times....
in Oz we do the turns in 25-30 min over a hundred times a day...so it can be done. This is probably more about new operation and new staff etc (from Ground staff to cabin crew and some pilots....all getting familiar with the system). I hope this begins to improve in coming weeks. The containerised aircraft is faster to turn than bulk loaded unless of course there is almost no load for a bulk load type.
The paperwork is probably the pilots doing the load sheet etc at the end of the turn...on NZ for example this comes from a seperate load control department.
With delays....my understanding is that when flights are delayed they remain open until the same time as normal (eg -30 or -45 etc) prior to the new estimated time. So if you were within these timelines you should be able to get on. All of this will evolve as so many brand new staff/operations on 10Jun begin to get familiar with all the technicalities.
ZQN will be a problem with wx until the aircraft are fitted with the all the goodies they need.
in relation to earlier question on turn times....
in Oz we do the turns in 25-30 min over a hundred times a day...so it can be done. This is probably more about new operation and new staff etc (from Ground staff to cabin crew and some pilots....all getting familiar with the system). I hope this begins to improve in coming weeks. The containerised aircraft is faster to turn than bulk loaded unless of course there is almost no load for a bulk load type.
The paperwork is probably the pilots doing the load sheet etc at the end of the turn...on NZ for example this comes from a seperate load control department.
With delays....my understanding is that when flights are delayed they remain open until the same time as normal (eg -30 or -45 etc) prior to the new estimated time. So if you were within these timelines you should be able to get on. All of this will evolve as so many brand new staff/operations on 10Jun begin to get familiar with all the technicalities.
ZQN will be a problem with wx until the aircraft are fitted with the all the goodies they need.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: turn L @ Taupo, just past the Niagra Falls...
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Originally Posted by TMAK
ZQN will be a problem with wx until the aircraft are fitted with the all the goodies they need...
What they need are experienced and proficient crews. QF were cancelling flights in & out of NZQN with a bit of wx hanging at the head of the lake, around NZGY and NZQN CAVOK. Utter nonsense. That wx could take 4-5 hours or more to get down the lake -if at all, but that was the basis upon which flights were being diverted/cancelled as recently as Mar. to my personal knowledge.
Some bizarre approaches too. One flight I was on extended "downwind" to NZLX!!! Have a look at the AirNZ drivers. Once they're in the Wakatipu basin, the flight is contained within that geographical area with no need to make these nonsensical approaches.
That sort of procedure/behaviour is quite simply going to lose custom. Pax waiting for a flight that has been cx/diverted "due wx" are still on the ground watching the airline they didn't book on making their schedule with ease. Guess who they're going to book with next time!
Here we go again
Airline leaves All Blacks fans stranded - National - NZ Herald News
Seems like the Kiwi's will need educating the 'Jetstar' way.
Not good press to get just as they are starting the new brand. I was amused at the somewhat aggresive stance of the Jet* PR person.
Interesting they were able to get on PB at a reasonable fare - looks like there is a bit of spare capacity.
Plainmaker
Seems like the Kiwi's will need educating the 'Jetstar' way.
Not good press to get just as they are starting the new brand. I was amused at the somewhat aggresive stance of the Jet* PR person.
Interesting they were able to get on PB at a reasonable fare - looks like there is a bit of spare capacity.
Plainmaker
Last edited by plainmaker; 21st Jun 2009 at 02:46. Reason: Spelling
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Radio...
I guess you are aware then that the NZ aircraft are fitted with more advance RNP equipment to allow them down below 4,000 where JQ and probably Jetconnect aircraft do not have this equipment as yet.
Hence any wx below this prevents the airlines from legally being allowed to proceed. Some JQ or NZ pilots can probably give a more advanced technical perpsective on this.
Its not a case of inexperienced pilots...I think many pilots are from JQ in Aust at moment...so you will find quite high experience levels in many cases.
I guess you are aware then that the NZ aircraft are fitted with more advance RNP equipment to allow them down below 4,000 where JQ and probably Jetconnect aircraft do not have this equipment as yet.
Hence any wx below this prevents the airlines from legally being allowed to proceed. Some JQ or NZ pilots can probably give a more advanced technical perpsective on this.
Its not a case of inexperienced pilots...I think many pilots are from JQ in Aust at moment...so you will find quite high experience levels in many cases.
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Originally Posted by TMAK
...you will find quite high experience levels in many cases...
No doubt, quite experienced in the airframe, IFR and RPT -but mountain flying? Flying into areas with severe terrain limitations? Strikes me that perhaps not.
Once they've finished the procedure over SH, they need to be able to play in that environment, as their competitors do
What they need are experienced and proficient crews.
Pretty cock-sure attitude from someone who obviously doesn't operate that equipment into that environment.
regards, Framer.
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From what I have heard, many of the J* crews have plenty of experience in mountainous areas. ( quite a few of the J* nz guys have operated into Qtown anyway) To make comments about needing "experienced" crews is just rubbish.
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Framer, you have hit the nail on the head. Many JC crews have been flying into ZQN consistently for many years now.
It is quite arrogant and dismissive of J* that they did not require these people's services (ie not allowing JC CHC based crew to take same positions in J*, they had to interview etc like anyone off the street).
So with the exception of a few ex-Ansett NZ and maybe 1 or 2 ex-JC crew, no real experience into ZQN.
If the operation was overseen by NZCAA would have been a bit tricky to get this operation approved I am guessing
It is quite arrogant and dismissive of J* that they did not require these people's services (ie not allowing JC CHC based crew to take same positions in J*, they had to interview etc like anyone off the street).
So with the exception of a few ex-Ansett NZ and maybe 1 or 2 ex-JC crew, no real experience into ZQN.
If the operation was overseen by NZCAA would have been a bit tricky to get this operation approved I am guessing