DOTARS changes jump seat requirements
Join Date: Dec 2007
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............never have subscribed to the nonsense that the bureaucrats know better..
That said, I would have thought though that a common standard for pax airside screening would offer more benefits to all concerned..........justification you ask? - why has stuff in the bottom of my flight bag been screened and passed by dozens different screening points over 6 months - only to be pulled up by one yesterday............then the security operator quietly said - "you should used the other line - it's less sensitive...."
Only one way to fix govt depts keen on controlling things - give them something to do [ATSB staff take note: tonnes of incoming paper with IRM's & RRM's coming your way soon]
That said, I would have thought though that a common standard for pax airside screening would offer more benefits to all concerned..........justification you ask? - why has stuff in the bottom of my flight bag been screened and passed by dozens different screening points over 6 months - only to be pulled up by one yesterday............then the security operator quietly said - "you should used the other line - it's less sensitive...."
Only one way to fix govt depts keen on controlling things - give them something to do [ATSB staff take note: tonnes of incoming paper with IRM's & RRM's coming your way soon]
Join Date: Oct 2006
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I know the answer to this one folks... We just need to act more like politicians... Look at where their childish antics have got them... Hot meals on all 20 min sectors! Hair dryers in the middle of combat zones! Larger beef stew portions in the canteen!
We just need to rant and rave until we get our way! It works for them...
We just need to rant and rave until we get our way! It works for them...
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Here is what happens in Europe: http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/3...-id-cards.html
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Jumpseat
This is all a bit silly boys. If the bad DOTARS man sees you sitting on the jumpseat, provided you have your ID, you are fine. The bad DOTARS man has no idea if you are on duty travel or not. He doesnt get a copy of your rosters.
Advice: If the DOTARS man askes you if you are on duty travel, answer YES!
As long as you look the part, they wont bother you. we've been doing it this way for years, and will keep doing it this way for years to come.
Advice: If the DOTARS man askes you if you are on duty travel, answer YES!
As long as you look the part, they wont bother you. we've been doing it this way for years, and will keep doing it this way for years to come.
If only it were that simple D.L. Most airlines provide their crew with a briefing report which lists those on duty for the flight. If your names not down you aint coming in!!.........Are we a night club or an aeroplane?
why is it the ones who shout loudest have the weakest argument.
For info I've worked for airlines throughout Europe and Asia and was always supplied with a briefing report......perhaps its time you worked for a real airline.
Oh and they have removed the authority from the captain to admitting whoever they want. Yes the Capt still has the final say, but they have removed the right of choice.
Also if you read the statutory Doc's they have made it an offence of strict liability. I'll let you read up and make your own opinion
For info I've worked for airlines throughout Europe and Asia and was always supplied with a briefing report......perhaps its time you worked for a real airline.
Oh and they have removed the authority from the captain to admitting whoever they want. Yes the Capt still has the final say, but they have removed the right of choice.
Also if you read the statutory Doc's they have made it an offence of strict liability. I'll let you read up and make your own opinion
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Only took 3 pages for some knob to start pissing on about who's airline is better. What actually was your point re Virgin? And what relevance to the thread, pray tell? This issue affects all airlines here, maybe you should read the legislation. The captain no longer has that authority. As was pointed out to you. Please try not to be a complete knob, and contribute meaningfully. Of course, If you're not employed under australian rules, then you don't have to concern yourself, do you.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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I dont and I dont.
I think your OPs manual will specify whos allowed in. That is accepted and approved by your regulator and is the approved system.
Regardless of DOTARS.
I think your OPs manual will specify whos allowed in. That is accepted and approved by your regulator and is the approved system.
Regardless of DOTARS.
Morning all.
It would appear Dork Lord, sorry Dark Lord may have deeper pockets than most and will be happy to pay the infringement fine ( $5000.00 springs to mind. Please correct me if this is not right) when he commits the transgression.
Regards to all
Fly safe and play hard
Hoss58
It would appear Dork Lord, sorry Dark Lord may have deeper pockets than most and will be happy to pay the infringement fine ( $5000.00 springs to mind. Please correct me if this is not right) when he commits the transgression.
Regards to all
Fly safe and play hard
Hoss58
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Just Maybe
The Explanatory Statement to the Amended Regs specifically refers to the loophole, expolited by some, that allowed a person not ordinarily authorised to be on the flight deck to enter before take-off and exit after after landing and claim the regs were not being broken.
Is it possible that if everyone had complied with the intention of the previous regulations (i.e. just allow employees on the jump seats) then the regs would never had to have been ammended that closed this loophole and further restricted the use of jumpseats.
Is it possible that if everyone had complied with the intention of the previous regulations (i.e. just allow employees on the jump seats) then the regs would never had to have been ammended that closed this loophole and further restricted the use of jumpseats.
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Ha !! and I thought China had cornered the market in draconian rules, this one is a top ten 
Somebody mentioned the Fedex flight as a good example of why not to let people travel on the flight deck, using that rationale, nobody should be allowed on an aircraft at all, as all sorts of people from all walks of life have caused dramas in aircraft over the years, both in the flight deck and cabin.
We ( as yet ) have received no advice that we cannot travel on the J/S to Oz, currently anyone in the company including relations can travel, which makes even the previous moronic Dept Of Tossers And RSholes rules seem pathetically restrictive
Somebody mentioned the Fedex flight as a good example of why not to let people travel on the flight deck, using that rationale, nobody should be allowed on an aircraft at all, as all sorts of people from all walks of life have caused dramas in aircraft over the years, both in the flight deck and cabin.
We ( as yet ) have received no advice that we cannot travel on the J/S to Oz, currently anyone in the company including relations can travel, which makes even the previous moronic Dept Of Tossers And RSholes rules seem pathetically restrictive
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Greenslopes
Umm Yes it is that simple WTF are you going on about? The new rules allow people on staff travel to access the jump if they need to go to work or attend any company business not jusst duty travel related to that particular aircraft. So someone could be travelling somewhere for work that day or maybe next? going to a meeting? a sim? etc, no captain can know if its related to duty or not. FFS you could say you are on duty if your going to check your mail box ffs, that is what is so stupid about this ruling. Its not on duty travel exclusively for that flight its any staff claiming they are using the jump for work.
As far as I am concerned DL is perfectly right Dotars dont know $rap, have your ASIC and say your using it for work related purposes and they have not a leg to stand on! (I am going to work to study! ^^; ) lol they will never and can never win!
If only it were that simple D.L. Most airlines provide their crew with a briefing report which lists those on duty for the flight. If your names not down you aint coming in!!...
As far as I am concerned DL is perfectly right Dotars dont know $rap, have your ASIC and say your using it for work related purposes and they have not a leg to stand on! (I am going to work to study! ^^; ) lol they will never and can never win!
Agreed AoA but the problem remains is it a legitimate duty? I think DOTARS is being vindictive in their application of this ruling, however unless I see a name on my duty sheet I cannot afford to pay the penalty incurred via a breach of aforementioned. I don't agree with it I'm merely pointing out that strict liability penalties mean you are guilty till proven innocent. In order to clear yourself you have to apply to the administration appeals tribunal, I for one have better things to do. Are you prepared to be the Guinea Pig?
It would be great for compromise to be reached, but given how much most people(except those who realise there is more to the job than epaullets and fancy hats) resent Pilots, don't hold your breath.
Ooroo
It would be great for compromise to be reached, but given how much most people(except those who realise there is more to the job than epaullets and fancy hats) resent Pilots, don't hold your breath.
Ooroo
Commuting between base and home is NOT Duty Travel.
Duty Travel is where the employer has a requirement for an individual to travel somewhere at its request, expense and direction. Commuting does not fit this criteria.
Let's face it, why should an employer, or Government regulator for that matter, have to worry about making special provision for its staff to get to work. Live where the work is or find another job but don't bang on like spoilt brats about the problems associated with commuting.
Duty Travel is where the employer has a requirement for an individual to travel somewhere at its request, expense and direction. Commuting does not fit this criteria.
Let's face it, why should an employer, or Government regulator for that matter, have to worry about making special provision for its staff to get to work. Live where the work is or find another job but don't bang on like spoilt brats about the problems associated with commuting.
Commuting between base and home can hardly be considered leisure travel either. Commuting is a part of the airline lifestyle for those who want to do it. Thats why "Commuting contracts" are offered by some of the more flexible airlines. Airline managers in this country are the people who need to accept it and make it work for the benefit of both parties. Given that aviation jobs are no longer as stable as they once were then the concept of commuting is a way of keeping the family happy and the career progressing.
On another point, given that pilot incapacitation is the most common cockpit emergency then having someone in the jumpseat who is familiar with the environment would in fact enhance safety.
On another point, given that pilot incapacitation is the most common cockpit emergency then having someone in the jumpseat who is familiar with the environment would in fact enhance safety.
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If your child was back in the cabin and there was some kind of terrorism event occurring, who here could say with certainty they wouldn't open the flight deck door? Wouldn't the best way to prevent this from happening be having your kids on the flight deck in the first place?
BTW has Askew gone, or was that just a rumour?
BTW has Askew gone, or was that just a rumour?
