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Balpa to challenge ID cards

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Balpa to challenge ID cards

Old 5th May 2009, 06:26
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Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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Balpa to challenge ID cards

I leave it for you to follow

Pilots refuse to take part in national identity card trials | Politics | The Guardian
sky9 is offline  
Old 5th May 2009, 10:04
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Excellent news.

Worth my 1% on its own.
Desperate is offline  
Old 5th May 2009, 10:20
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Also in the London Evening Standard:

Pilots to boycott trial of ID cards | News

Airline pilots will refuse to take part in the national identity card scheme when trials begin at London City and Manchester airports this autumn.

>>The British Airline Pilots' Association will raise a legal challenge to Home Office plans to use "critical" airside workers to test the scheme.

MPs will shortly be asked to approve powers to force pilots and airside staff to register for ID cards as part of checks before they are employed. The scheme will try to persuade air staff to sign up by waiving the 30 registration fee.

Balpa has protested that the ID card scheme cannot be considered voluntary when workers will not be able to get an airport pass without one.<<
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Old 5th May 2009, 10:36
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Also an excellent article in the Gaurdian by Jim McAuslan:

We refuse to be ID card guinea pigs | Jim McAuslan | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

>>Our members must have an airside pass to operate aircraft and now discover that to get that pass they must have a national ID card. They are told, "You don't actually have to one" but no card equals no pass, which equals no job. This is coercion and, by trialling the scheme in Manchester and London City airports, the government is clearly attempting to isolate pockets of resistance.<<


>>Our members, who aim to be the ultimate professionals, increasingly have a sense that a line is being crossed in the relationship between state and citizen; a sense that Big Brother knows best.<<
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Old 5th May 2009, 11:47
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The 30 fee is to be waived as an incentive for them to sign up.
Wow, thanks very much, it almost makes me want to have one now.
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Old 6th May 2009, 00:16
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And if Pilots are not required, I take it the rest of the airport workers will not be required to participate also ?

If your going to swan through the VP point and I have to validate my genital card, don't even think about pushing in front of me, even if you have priority.

Help us mortals.

No need really, BAA security can only manage a BAA pass and a temp pass, anything more than that and their brains would explode.
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Old 6th May 2009, 06:50
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Last night and carrying on to this morning LBC (a london talk radio station) has covered the story of the id cards and how crew are going to be the test subjects. I was surprised there was not a single repost from anyone in the industry having observed threads such as this.
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Old 6th May 2009, 09:21
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"Balpa man" has been on the TV this morning whinging about this - so I guess it must be serious !!!

With a DVLC licence, CAA licence, JAR licence, NI card, birth certificate, Mickey Mouse membership and several airside passes...... we now need an ID card to get to the aeroplane.

Does anyone know whether this is just for Airlines and major airports, or is it mandatory for the average PPL going anywhere near Manchester to have one as well.

No comment from the CAA yet - they are obviously on the ball as usual !!!
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Old 6th May 2009, 10:21
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From Hong Kong we use ID cards and they work *exceptionally* well

For all govt, drivers licence, banks, utilities, services, libraries, hospitals, employers or any ID required this one card is used - including passport control for residents through HK is fully automated using a thumb print as well. Saves standing in queue ala Heathrow for

Agree that without having this integration of services above, sounds like a waste of time - If you can make it work, this will be a huge step forward in simplifying your daily lives in the amazingly dire technology level in the UK.

Lastly for all the Guardian reading beardies citing Government control and Big Brother, the government already hold all and any info 'they' need on you
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Old 6th May 2009, 10:23
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id like to ask jackboots jaqui smith ,if it is safer/better for pilots and airport workers to have 2 id cards ,can she give me a proper reason as to why 3 or 4 or even 10 id cards would not be even safer.......it' utter rubbish,well done balpa. 1 ID card is enough! That is all an alitalia or KLM crew will need to get airside in the UK ,but UK crews will need 2...utter BXXXXXXX!!!

Last edited by doishquattroserche; 6th May 2009 at 10:39.
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Old 6th May 2009, 13:54
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So, what will happen to pass holders who refuse the ID card and loose their jobs, at pass expiry?

Will BALPA foot the bills to keep the families afloat?

Who's first then?
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Old 6th May 2009, 15:25
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No one will lose their job. Don't be so bloody dramatic. What, you think that an airline is going to fire its pilots for failing to take part in this ludicrous scheme? I don't think so somehow.

To those making a stand against this pointless (in so many ways) scheme: you have my full and unreserved support. Thank you for fighting this on behalf of the overwhelming majority of the public. Good luck!
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Old 6th May 2009, 15:39
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No-one will lose their job, Nick?
You must be joking.
No Bl**dy pass, No bl**dy job mate.
Just wait and see!! The airlines will just fall in line
with whatever Gordy and his Cronies tell them.

BAA? Barstewards Against Aviation mate!!!
Storminnorm is offline  
Old 6th May 2009, 16:23
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From Hong Kong we use ID cards and they work *exceptionally* well
Just because something is acceptable in your native Chinese culture does not mean it would be acceptable in our native British culture.

The UK Government is NOT to be trusted with an ID Cards scheme - not least because of the all encompassing National Identity Register (NIR) that sits behind it. Every time the ID Card is used an entry is made on the NIR. Thus the state builds up a picture over time of what you do and where you go. The NIR would also have links to other governent databases so allowing civil servants access to a huge range of information about you.

Exactly how do you think I, as a private citizen, would benefit from this? If I need to identify myself (and I rarely do outside work) then there are number of different ways I can choose to do this and there is NO recording of the information.

I refuse to have an ID Card and protest most strongly that I may be denied an airside pass and employment as a result of my point of view.
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Old 6th May 2009, 20:32
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I'm not exactly endeared to BALPA (completely dominated in the ranks by BA) and imho always considered it a waste of money. However I have to say I am impressed by this latest action. Shows they have a bit of balls. I might start putting my hand in my pocket.
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Old 6th May 2009, 21:05
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I have lived in a country where ID cards were used for everything and I thought it quite good.

HOWEVER, I can't see the bloody point of these new cards, as they don't fill a role or simplify any part of my life. If I ended up getting one it would only sit in the desk draw!!!

I would accept the cards if it meant I could combine my driver's license, airside pass and passport all into one. Who cares if it can get me back into the UK, I'd still have to carry my passport to enter another country!!!

England is in a very dark place, muppets running it and another lot waiting in the wings to take over.

Right England bend over!!!
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Old 7th May 2009, 14:54
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ID card triallists stay on the register:

Public Service - ID card triallists stay on the register

>>Airside workers who take part in the upcoming ID card trials will have their details stored permanently on the National Identity Register (NIR) whether they wish it or not.

As part of the critical worker identity card scheme (CWIC), all airside workers at Manchester and London City airports will be issued with an identity card. The government has said the scheme will offer "obvious benefits" to both employers and employees at the airport. It will facilitate quicker pre-employment checks and enhance identity management around secure areas in the airport, according to the Identity and Passport Service (IPS).

But it has been revealed in a parliamentary written answer that airside workers at both airports, who will be issued with an ID card automatically, will have no choice over what happens to their personal data once the trial is complete. This also applies if they leave the job during the pilot.<<

This is like keeping your DNA when you are innocent. What do they want all your data for?
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Old 7th May 2009, 23:43
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Originally Posted by Storminnorm View Post
I can't help wondering WHY they chose Manchester for the
first trials of these cards.
Could it be because the population of Manchester are just
going to tell them precisely WHERE to stick their ID cards?
The Mancunians always were a bolshie bunch anyhow.
If they can force them into having to accept the things,
then the rest of us will trail after them like a load of
dumb-arsed sheep... Baaaaa!!!!
Manchester was chosen because it is a Labour controlled Council and the Airport is wholly owned by said Council. The Home office told them they were having it end of story and they would have the infrastructure paid for.
It is obvious that any opposition is being stifled. if it had happened at a lot of other airports there would have been ballots for action long before now.
Many are signing up to it at manchester for a 75 bribe to take part in the trial..Problem is once on the trial they will be on the database forever.
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Old 8th May 2009, 09:37
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I'm not exactly endeared to BALPA (completely dominated in the ranks by BA)
Well under half the membership BA. But why let facts get in the way of justifying non-membership?
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Old 8th May 2009, 18:10
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Prospect Union who represents ATC, Engineers and AFS officers has joined BALPA in the fight against ID cards, that's an extra 40,000 workers.
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