Jetstar NZ News????
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Interested to hear if they got their numbers for their Domestic Launch soon? Is the proposed pay rate debated about in this thread the real deal, or has there been some negotiations taking place..?
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Na that's to the CTC/EASYJET crew they will get down here on secondment to cover the shortfall in crew numbers - probably what a Captain earns, imagine the cockpit dynamic. It's actually $9500 plus incentive pay of $125 per hour over 75.
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Sadly whats happening is QF and Jetstar are exploiting lower wages and conditions in NZ from people that would be prepared to work for less....if nothing is done about it soon, it could have ramifications for Jetstar and other airlines in Australia....
I say to the Kiwis and others looking at this..look beyond the shiny jet syndrome, put your foot down and make a stand for a change, instead of accepting low pay and conditions, then whinging in 12 months time that your Australian counterparts get paid more...nows the time to show some backbone....your choice....you guys in NZALPA, AFAP and AIPA need to get behind each other and become united.
I say to the Kiwis and others looking at this..look beyond the shiny jet syndrome, put your foot down and make a stand for a change, instead of accepting low pay and conditions, then whinging in 12 months time that your Australian counterparts get paid more...nows the time to show some backbone....your choice....you guys in NZALPA, AFAP and AIPA need to get behind each other and become united.
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Well said Sand dune. Unfortunately there are those who are very shortsighted, that includes Jetstar management.
To those FO's currently taking up this offer, shame on you. You can look back on this in 10 years time and proudly say that YOU played a part in the lowering of T&C's in Australasia. Management puppets.
Please don't bother writing your snivling comments to cover up your insecurity and willingness to get ahead of your fellow aviators at ANY expense.
To all the girls and guys out there with a backbone and integrity, hang in there. Say NO to these ridiculous insulting T&C's. They are getting better and provided we all so no they will be bought up to an industry standard.
To Jetstar Management. Your shortsighted approach to this industry will eventually bite you in the arse. With inexperience comes accidents, and when there is an accident, you will be exposed and very alone. The recent Q400 accident in the states is the case and point. Your low salaries will have an adverse affect for your future operations.
To those FO's currently taking up this offer, shame on you. You can look back on this in 10 years time and proudly say that YOU played a part in the lowering of T&C's in Australasia. Management puppets.
Please don't bother writing your snivling comments to cover up your insecurity and willingness to get ahead of your fellow aviators at ANY expense.
To all the girls and guys out there with a backbone and integrity, hang in there. Say NO to these ridiculous insulting T&C's. They are getting better and provided we all so no they will be bought up to an industry standard.
To Jetstar Management. Your shortsighted approach to this industry will eventually bite you in the arse. With inexperience comes accidents, and when there is an accident, you will be exposed and very alone. The recent Q400 accident in the states is the case and point. Your low salaries will have an adverse affect for your future operations.
Na that's to the CTC/EASYJET crew they will get down here on secondment to cover the shortfall in crew numbers
I have since heard that Jetstar are also paying travel and accomodation costs for these guys.
This isn't making sense to me. Everyones bitching about the T & C's being offered, yet Jetstar are paying well in excess of $110,000pa for temporary FO's.
I know short term contracts attract a premium for salary but if they can afford to pay this amount surely they can pay a good market rate for their own valuable permanent staff.
Since they aren't paying a fair rate the obvious message is they don't value their own staff.
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Its a positive step if NZALPA are looking at getting involved.
Just as a matter of interest, anybody willing to give some ball park figures for an Air Nelson FO/Capt?
Not saying Jetstar should be comparable, just like to have a handle on the current market state of play there, the others I sort of know. cheers
Just as a matter of interest, anybody willing to give some ball park figures for an Air Nelson FO/Capt?
Not saying Jetstar should be comparable, just like to have a handle on the current market state of play there, the others I sort of know. cheers
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DC Air Nsn salaies go like this.
Captains start on $72000 increasing yearly. 10yrs plus gets $108000
FOs $44000 up to $63000 after 7yrs. If you have your ATPL subjects then you get yr2 which is close to $50000.
7.5% super. Can elect to put some in Kiwisaver and the rest in normal super fund or chuck it all in one.
Allowances anywhere between $5 - $10000yr depending on base. Some bases get heaps of overnights whilst others hardly get any.
My roster sees me doing 100-120hrs duty/month and 50-60hrs flying. 10days RDO per month and 2 of those being a weekend. Some rosters have no standbys whilst others have heaps just depends.
Captains start on $72000 increasing yearly. 10yrs plus gets $108000
FOs $44000 up to $63000 after 7yrs. If you have your ATPL subjects then you get yr2 which is close to $50000.
7.5% super. Can elect to put some in Kiwisaver and the rest in normal super fund or chuck it all in one.
Allowances anywhere between $5 - $10000yr depending on base. Some bases get heaps of overnights whilst others hardly get any.
My roster sees me doing 100-120hrs duty/month and 50-60hrs flying. 10days RDO per month and 2 of those being a weekend. Some rosters have no standbys whilst others have heaps just depends.
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Why pilots on this forum are losing sleep about the terms and conditions being offered by this mob (Jet*) I don't know 
Don't work for them - market forces will then drive up the T&C's! And at the same time lets not knock those that do accept the positions - with unemployment on the rise, airlines falling over in what seems like every second day, people have to keep food on the table and they are paying more than the dole!
A good fight - now there's a spirit of collaboration!! That always works 
NZALPA are currently reacting to Jetconnect's closure of the Christchurch base, and the transfer of flying to Jetstar. The Employment Act regarding employee protection in the event of restructuring/transfer of business is clear - I am surprised that ALPA have left the challenge to the 9th hour. The ramifications could be quite interesting indeed...
Don't work for them - market forces will then drive up the T&C's! And at the same time lets not knock those that do accept the positions - with unemployment on the rise, airlines falling over in what seems like every second day, people have to keep food on the table and they are paying more than the dole!
good news is that NZALPA are on the case, and like a good fight!
NZALPA are currently reacting to Jetconnect's closure of the Christchurch base, and the transfer of flying to Jetstar. The Employment Act regarding employee protection in the event of restructuring/transfer of business is clear - I am surprised that ALPA have left the challenge to the 9th hour. The ramifications could be quite interesting indeed...
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Well said. If you dont like whats on offer, dont go, but with the way airlines are falling, and the fact that the jobs are certainly drying up at a great rate of knots, (especially in asia ), you cant blame the guys who do end up taking the positions.
Throw in the recent tax changes (in aust) that the labour gov have brought in, its very quickly becoming not worth trying to work overseas on short term, or commuting contracts, so I would imagine you will start to see more and more guys coming back and taking jobs like this one to be home.
After all, Pacblue have had a regular supply of kiwis coming back from the sandpit, and they are working for less than whats on offer with Jetstar.
Throw in the recent tax changes (in aust) that the labour gov have brought in, its very quickly becoming not worth trying to work overseas on short term, or commuting contracts, so I would imagine you will start to see more and more guys coming back and taking jobs like this one to be home.
After all, Pacblue have had a regular supply of kiwis coming back from the sandpit, and they are working for less than whats on offer with Jetstar.
Last edited by pigdriver; 24th May 2009 at 11:01.
How is JS going to start with Queenstown? If they are using Australians and contractors I thought you had to do actual flights in as well as sims for RNP into QN? Perhaps they will start off using the conventional approach. I certainly hope they don't scare themselves with what sounds like a low local pilot base.
How are Air National going with Ground handling, I would have thought it was a big ask for them to set up this op and run things on time with so little experience in this area. Domestic will put the pressure on.
How are Air National going with Ground handling, I would have thought it was a big ask for them to set up this op and run things on time with so little experience in this area. Domestic will put the pressure on.
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Pigdriver I'm really unsure exactly what contract you're referring to when you keep bantering around about Jetstar pays more than Pacific Blue or any other NZ airline? I'm afraid you're very illinformed.
You may be right with Capt's, but I guess thats why the Capt salary has slowly been creeping up to meet "MARKET RATES" Jetstar cant get Capt's! but they can get FO's eager for the first shot at the jets. 50% of Capt salary!!!
PACIFIC BLUE FIRST OFFICER base $91,500 plus duty time allowance of $4.20 for every hour at work. 180 seat airliner
JETCONNECT FIRST OFFICER base $89,000 plus $4.35 DTA and $100hr incentive over 65hrs. . 142 seat airliner
JETSTAR FIRST OFFICER base $65,000 plus what? 180 seat airliner.
Jetstar require $181 for a Pshyc assessment. Pay to do a sim assessment, pay for your medical, pay for your Jepps.
So please explain to me how Jetstar pay more and have better T&C's than Pac Blue or any other operator in NZ.
Just remember, people can go on about Pac Blue and Jetconnect initially having crappy conditions. Jetconnect was formed out of failed NZ airline and eventually taken over by Qantas. Pacific Blue was created for Pacific flights only and during a time when T&C's were already not very good in Virgin.
Jetstar is an established profitable QANTAS group airline with a current pilot CEA who is taking over an already established QANTAS group airline with a current CEA at T&C's far below the current NZ industry T&C's of any other NZ airline or that of the current T&C's for Jetstar Australia.
You can argue this point until the cows (or pigs ) come home but at the end of the day, you have no arguement. Well you have a very weak arguement. Plain and simple, exploiting workers in it's finest form.
Care to ellaborate Pigdriver?
You may be right with Capt's, but I guess thats why the Capt salary has slowly been creeping up to meet "MARKET RATES" Jetstar cant get Capt's! but they can get FO's eager for the first shot at the jets. 50% of Capt salary!!!
PACIFIC BLUE FIRST OFFICER base $91,500 plus duty time allowance of $4.20 for every hour at work. 180 seat airliner
JETCONNECT FIRST OFFICER base $89,000 plus $4.35 DTA and $100hr incentive over 65hrs. . 142 seat airliner
JETSTAR FIRST OFFICER base $65,000 plus what? 180 seat airliner.
Jetstar require $181 for a Pshyc assessment. Pay to do a sim assessment, pay for your medical, pay for your Jepps.
So please explain to me how Jetstar pay more and have better T&C's than Pac Blue or any other operator in NZ.
Just remember, people can go on about Pac Blue and Jetconnect initially having crappy conditions. Jetconnect was formed out of failed NZ airline and eventually taken over by Qantas. Pacific Blue was created for Pacific flights only and during a time when T&C's were already not very good in Virgin.
Jetstar is an established profitable QANTAS group airline with a current pilot CEA who is taking over an already established QANTAS group airline with a current CEA at T&C's far below the current NZ industry T&C's of any other NZ airline or that of the current T&C's for Jetstar Australia.
You can argue this point until the cows (or pigs ) come home but at the end of the day, you have no arguement. Well you have a very weak arguement. Plain and simple, exploiting workers in it's finest form.
Care to ellaborate Pigdriver?
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Fruet nich, I know as a fact, J* are now paying more than pacblue. The first few guys who have all gone through the training are all ex pacblue, and I can tell you right now, they are on a better deal with jetstar!! As far as f/o's go, I dont know anything about their deal, other than after chating to a checky the otherday, most are coming from regionals and hence all need to be rated, thus they require short term temp crew to get it going.
By the way,I believe they have got the required capt numbers,so before you go shouting off at people, get your facts right.
By the way,I believe they have got the required capt numbers,so before you go shouting off at people, get your facts right.
Last edited by pigdriver; 24th May 2009 at 23:52.
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Pigdriver,
You state "get your facts right" to others, when they are quoting known numbers.
All you have said is hearsay and innuendo. I think you need to back yourself and come with facts before YOU go shouting off at people.
You state "get your facts right" to others, when they are quoting known numbers.
All you have said is hearsay and innuendo. I think you need to back yourself and come with facts before YOU go shouting off at people.
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I am just stating a known fact, that the first few capts going through are ex pacblue. As fruet mich said, "you might be right re capts". Well I am. As I have said, I dont really know much about ,nor do I care about the f/o situation, hence I have never quoted amounts, as I dont know or care.
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Hey Pigdriver
What regionals are these FOs coming from?
When PB and JC were recruiting the crew rooms were abuzz with people talking about their interviews and getting the nod. I have not heard of one person being interviewed let alone going to J*.
I would assume that J* would get their FOs from places like Air National and Airwork.
What regionals are these FOs coming from?
When PB and JC were recruiting the crew rooms were abuzz with people talking about their interviews and getting the nod. I have not heard of one person being interviewed let alone going to J*.
I would assume that J* would get their FOs from places like Air National and Airwork.
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It'll be interesting to see how these temp crews from overseas will get by the NZ government and obtain work visa's so that they can work for a NZ company when pilots are not listed as a labour shortage in NZ. I really think Qantas and it's Jetstar subsidery have gone like a bull at a gate without even looking into NZ employment law. Oh dear.
Ahhh the irony, Poor old Jetstars masterplan is turning to shyte. Whats Brucie gonna do now? Classic watching this all unfold!
Piggy, thats exactly what I've been raving on about throughout all these Jetstar NZ threads. Capt's salaries have risen due to lack of interest. It still a long way off what the "industry standard" is. And yes so is Pac Blue and Jetconnect. We don't need these going any lower.
If FO's had held out, they to would have been well situated for better conditions. Jetstar have built a business case to operate in NZ on the Jetstar Australia model with their assossiated costs. If they came into the market offering fair T&C's as what are paid to Jetstar Aus employees, they wouldn't have this situation and it all wouldn't be crumbling around their ears. As I 've said, offering low terms and conditions have adverse affects! That is the same in any industry, not just aviation.
To the guys and gals out there that have said thanks but no thanks, hats off to you all.
Ahhh the irony, Poor old Jetstars masterplan is turning to shyte. Whats Brucie gonna do now? Classic watching this all unfold!
Piggy, thats exactly what I've been raving on about throughout all these Jetstar NZ threads. Capt's salaries have risen due to lack of interest. It still a long way off what the "industry standard" is. And yes so is Pac Blue and Jetconnect. We don't need these going any lower.
If FO's had held out, they to would have been well situated for better conditions. Jetstar have built a business case to operate in NZ on the Jetstar Australia model with their assossiated costs. If they came into the market offering fair T&C's as what are paid to Jetstar Aus employees, they wouldn't have this situation and it all wouldn't be crumbling around their ears. As I 've said, offering low terms and conditions have adverse affects! That is the same in any industry, not just aviation.
To the guys and gals out there that have said thanks but no thanks, hats off to you all.
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Fruet Mich, Same story with the Engineers that keep the planes flying, please remember!!
They tried to cut the wages with AKL and had no sucess so have gone to Air Nz now to do the work and will pay through the nose!!!
Did it with CHC engineers as well and the base did not get fully staffed for agers.
Just pay the $ and things will work out right from go, its quite simple.
They tried to cut the wages with AKL and had no sucess so have gone to Air Nz now to do the work and will pay through the nose!!!
Did it with CHC engineers as well and the base did not get fully staffed for agers.
Just pay the $ and things will work out right from go, its quite simple.