Jetstar NZ News????
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Have heard most of the f/o interest is from kiwis, with a few oz guys coming over as skippers to help out for 12monthsor so until they get enough over there, then back to J* oz for them. The 75-80 hrs is also a mix of tasman flying, so it is very easy to hit those hours.
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Not that I agree with the conditions on offer etc, but I do find alot of the comments on here very harsh, especially as Jetstar ( or should I say ex nopulse) were the ones that started this low pay and conditions when they undercut everybody a few years ago. Then pac blue continued the game, with jitconnect following very closely.Over time, both these airlines conditions have slowly improved, so I would imagine J* NZ will be no different.
In this current market, with airlines falling over everywhere, I can see why some guys are looking at this, as well as pacblue/jetconnect etc, as to be home, with a reasonable job, is better than not having one at all !!!
In this current market, with airlines falling over everywhere, I can see why some guys are looking at this, as well as pacblue/jetconnect etc, as to be home, with a reasonable job, is better than not having one at all !!!
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Good luck to all the wide eyed boys and girls like Horatio that obviously choose to not do the due diligence prior to spending a poltus amount of cash to earn **** all. SJS is rife and well! Jet* management have got us pilots all suss'd! They're all getting to know we'll all porn our selves out to fly that shinny jet.
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Palau and others,
When estimating income in my experience, hope for the best and expect the worst. So for example;
- If you take your leave in two week chunks then you will not achieve any incentive pay hours for at least two months.
- There will be months when you are rostered for EP's, CRM, or other courses which will reduce your flying hours for that month.
- If you are off work due to sickness or injury you will not accrue flying hours for that month during that time.
- Cynical rostering may see you displaced on a flight if you are going into 'overtime' and another pilot could do the flight who is not (perhaps he is coming off leave or has been sick that month.)
DTA is an allowance to be spent on overnights, so don't factor that as income. I have seen too many examples of "slam-clickers" who are depending on DTA to pay the bills back home.
Paying for an endorsement to take a pay cut makes no sense. Add up what the endo costs, including accommodation, travel, food, and lost income while training. Take a really hard look at how long it will take you to break even on that investment. Think about being forced to move bases, or being stuck as an FO for whatever reason.
If you have a good job, stay where you are until you at least don't have to pay for an endorsement.
If you don't have a job, get your arse out of the country and do something financially far more worthwhile and probably very interesting, until pilots in NZ are recognised as the very fine aviators they are.
When estimating income in my experience, hope for the best and expect the worst. So for example;
- If you take your leave in two week chunks then you will not achieve any incentive pay hours for at least two months.
- There will be months when you are rostered for EP's, CRM, or other courses which will reduce your flying hours for that month.
- If you are off work due to sickness or injury you will not accrue flying hours for that month during that time.
- Cynical rostering may see you displaced on a flight if you are going into 'overtime' and another pilot could do the flight who is not (perhaps he is coming off leave or has been sick that month.)
DTA is an allowance to be spent on overnights, so don't factor that as income. I have seen too many examples of "slam-clickers" who are depending on DTA to pay the bills back home.
Paying for an endorsement to take a pay cut makes no sense. Add up what the endo costs, including accommodation, travel, food, and lost income while training. Take a really hard look at how long it will take you to break even on that investment. Think about being forced to move bases, or being stuck as an FO for whatever reason.
If you have a good job, stay where you are until you at least don't have to pay for an endorsement.
If you don't have a job, get your arse out of the country and do something financially far more worthwhile and probably very interesting, until pilots in NZ are recognised as the very fine aviators they are.
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For what it's worth, NZ$65k base salary after tax leaves you with $49k in the hand a year. Minus roughly NZ$15k cash per year (After tax!) for the endorsement, leave you with NZ$34k cash in hand per annum.
Assuming 80hrs a month average block time and you get another $11k per annum in the hand cash.
That leaves the individual with $1730 per fortnight cash in the hand when your at work and $1300 when your on leave, for those with student loans the figures would be worse. Good luck team, but you are selling your souls.
Assuming 80hrs a month average block time and you get another $11k per annum in the hand cash.
That leaves the individual with $1730 per fortnight cash in the hand when your at work and $1300 when your on leave, for those with student loans the figures would be worse. Good luck team, but you are selling your souls.
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After speaking to a few contacts in J*, I believe a few of the recently displaced captains etc are looking at going over to enzed for 12months or so (LWOP) as it's a better option than what they have recieved in the latest bids etc. (some going back to f/o, or having to move to darwin/perth etc...)Also with the slowdown of late, and realising their number on the dreaded list, maybe it gets them current again whilst looking for a better option longterm????
As far as the f/o situation goes, I think the SJS will win, and the company will get lots of guys ready to work for next to nothing?!?!
As far as the f/o situation goes, I think the SJS will win, and the company will get lots of guys ready to work for next to nothing?!?!
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Why would you leave your government sponsored turboprop job to work at pornstar NZ for worse conditions and less pay...................I don't get it? Actually do it would you? I'd like to be considered for a command sooner than later. Cheers
Fruet Mich
Where did I say that I was going to go to NZ? 
Where did I say that it was a good idea?
My intention was to point out that there will be lots of flying and overnights because J*'s obvious intention is to replace their Impulse workforce with "Impulse NZ", as far as possible.
I am certainly not saying it is decent pay or conditions, nor that it is ethical; I most certainly will not be working for Impact NZ, nor will I be moving my family to Helengrad and then paying NZD$40k for an endorsement
Where did I say that it was a good idea?
My intention was to point out that there will be lots of flying and overnights because J*'s obvious intention is to replace their Impulse workforce with "Impulse NZ", as far as possible.
I am certainly not saying it is decent pay or conditions, nor that it is ethical; I most certainly will not be working for Impact NZ, nor will I be moving my family to Helengrad and then paying NZD$40k for an endorsement
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I'm scratching my head here horatio? You're a confused fish in an agry sea!
Impulse? Long gone and dead.
Jet* NZ Alive and well. Flying around Australia doing overnights and all of the Aus guys flying? Tell him he's dreamin! What ever you're smokin, I want some!!
Ever heard of unions?
Look, at the end of the day, what Jet* is doing is manipulating at it's greatest. Everyone has the right to better their career. I'd just like to see people stop and think before presenting themselves like lambs to the slaughter for Jet* management to manipulate for years to come.
Sorry if I've offended you Horatio, just not sure where you were going with your earlier thread
Impulse? Long gone and dead.
Jet* NZ Alive and well. Flying around Australia doing overnights and all of the Aus guys flying? Tell him he's dreamin! What ever you're smokin, I want some!!
Ever heard of unions?
Look, at the end of the day, what Jet* is doing is manipulating at it's greatest. Everyone has the right to better their career. I'd just like to see people stop and think before presenting themselves like lambs to the slaughter for Jet* management to manipulate for years to come.
Sorry if I've offended you Horatio, just not sure where you were going with your earlier thread
Unions?
You are obviously not a member of the AFAP - otherwise you would have read their memos to Jetstar members and smelt their fear.
Wait 3-5 years and then tell me I'm wrong.
Wait 3-5 years and then tell me I'm wrong.
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fruit mich and others, Yes impulse is dead, but what I and many others find very funny sitting back and watching all of this is, these are the guys who started all this low pay, pay for rating crap a few years ago, and now many of them ( yes ex impulse guys ) are the biggest whinges, and are also the loudest voices against guys going across for cmd, or to get home etc, although its EXACTLY what they have done in the past...
Its no different to the kiwis who are with jitconnect, or pacblue( many ex emirates etc...).Its all good to say we wouldnt do that, or join under those conditions etc, but many have , and unfortunatly, many will continue to do so !!!.
Its no different to the kiwis who are with jitconnect, or pacblue( many ex emirates etc...).Its all good to say we wouldnt do that, or join under those conditions etc, but many have , and unfortunatly, many will continue to do so !!!.
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Wether you like it or not I don't think any of us should project our own prejudice on others just starting out in this profession.
We all know just how hard it is to get that first step up.
What we need to be doing to protect future generations of pilots is to make management types think twice before screwing pilots.
how do you stop the rot?
A few suggestions off the top of my head.
Once accepting a job with dubious T&C's conspire with fellow workers and have preorganised "personal roster adjustment days"
No pilots no flying. They'll soon get the hint.
Join a Union. Petition that union to take management "on".
Challenge every little conniving thing Management does.
Light as many "bushfires " as you can to put the onus back onto management to put them out.
Challenge on OH&S grounds any shortcoming in your "place of work".
Write reports in order to tie up company resources.
Get your Union to petition organisations such as ausbuy.com.au
to highlight the offshoring of Aussie jobs, let the travelling public vote with their feet.Just look at Pacific Brands attempt at being "the smartest guys in the room" and how offshoring has affected their sales.
Petition your local member.
Tell family and friends.
Even small public disobedience campaigns have taken on a life of their own and toppled governments in the past.
Let's stop being victims and take the fight to management.
Even some neoclassical capitalists listen when it's their money at stake.
We all know just how hard it is to get that first step up.
What we need to be doing to protect future generations of pilots is to make management types think twice before screwing pilots.
how do you stop the rot?
A few suggestions off the top of my head.
Once accepting a job with dubious T&C's conspire with fellow workers and have preorganised "personal roster adjustment days"
No pilots no flying. They'll soon get the hint.
Join a Union. Petition that union to take management "on".
Challenge every little conniving thing Management does.
Light as many "bushfires " as you can to put the onus back onto management to put them out.
Challenge on OH&S grounds any shortcoming in your "place of work".
Write reports in order to tie up company resources.
Get your Union to petition organisations such as ausbuy.com.au
to highlight the offshoring of Aussie jobs, let the travelling public vote with their feet.Just look at Pacific Brands attempt at being "the smartest guys in the room" and how offshoring has affected their sales.
Petition your local member.
Tell family and friends.
Even small public disobedience campaigns have taken on a life of their own and toppled governments in the past.
Let's stop being victims and take the fight to management.
Even some neoclassical capitalists listen when it's their money at stake.
Last edited by max autobrakes; 1st Apr 2009 at 11:29.
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Max -Can we add, assasinate Hughesy to that list. I really, really 
hate that no talent a$$ clown.
1 step up, 2 steps back.
Douche-star.
hate that no talent a$$ clown.
We all know just how hard it is to get that first step up.
Douche-star.
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angry Angry ANGRY
Max AB - YOU are precisely the reason why I leave my family and go to Europe every winter and fly for 6mths. I don't find your vile attitude here. What a breath of fresh air it is. Yes, Aus & NZ airline mgt do have short comings, but when they have to deal with pilots like you, I to would have my patience tested. At times I look back on my military days and thank that people like Max AB did not exist. If he did, then - perhaps its better I do not explain.
Max, if you dont like the job, or the mgt, then SHUT UP!, stand up, and get OFF THIS PLANET!
Max, if you dont like the job, or the mgt, then SHUT UP!, stand up, and get OFF THIS PLANET!
Max AB has some valid points, the idea of joining a company and fostering the collective will to better T's & C's is excellent. Its all about bettering the workplace and ensuring people stick around so nothing malicious about that.
Irregardless of the 'economic crisis' there is a race to the bottom mirroring some other industries and linked back no doubt to government policies that will not slow anytime soon. Companies can take advantage because there is still the 'demand', requirements will be dropped as the pool shrinks but T's & C's won't necessarily be lifted in order to stimulate demand in times of weak supply.
The reality is that people join organisations for a multitude of reasons. The idea that if you don't like what is being served up then you should bail is at odds with the safety culture we all try and fiercely foster and protect. Fight the good fight I say, the race to the bottom will end at some point but by doing something about it there is the possibility of shortening and maybe even reversing its trend.
Irregardless of the 'economic crisis' there is a race to the bottom mirroring some other industries and linked back no doubt to government policies that will not slow anytime soon. Companies can take advantage because there is still the 'demand', requirements will be dropped as the pool shrinks but T's & C's won't necessarily be lifted in order to stimulate demand in times of weak supply.
The reality is that people join organisations for a multitude of reasons. The idea that if you don't like what is being served up then you should bail is at odds with the safety culture we all try and fiercely foster and protect. Fight the good fight I say, the race to the bottom will end at some point but by doing something about it there is the possibility of shortening and maybe even reversing its trend.
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Sorry Pegusus, the only anger I sense ain't coming from here brother!
What would you suggest pilots who wish to improve their lot in life do,join the Cosmogaian Cult and wait to get beamed out!
Throughout history there have been ebbs and flows in the capital/labour saga.
Yes I have studied such theories as the Keynesian dicipline of managed economies through Government regulation.I've studied Karl Marx's manefesto ,I'm aware of the latest embraced globalised market driven theories as espoused by the economic rationalists such as Friedrich Hayek and Milton Friedman.Throughout all this theory and history there is one constant, that constant is, if it ain't fair there will be trouble. Eventually people get jack and do something.It may not happen today, it probably won't happen tomorrow but I can assure you ,if there are enough unhappy people there will be change.
I wonder how you will respond, "Let them eat cake" ,perhaps?
What would you suggest pilots who wish to improve their lot in life do,join the Cosmogaian Cult and wait to get beamed out!
Throughout history there have been ebbs and flows in the capital/labour saga.
Yes I have studied such theories as the Keynesian dicipline of managed economies through Government regulation.I've studied Karl Marx's manefesto ,I'm aware of the latest embraced globalised market driven theories as espoused by the economic rationalists such as Friedrich Hayek and Milton Friedman.Throughout all this theory and history there is one constant, that constant is, if it ain't fair there will be trouble. Eventually people get jack and do something.It may not happen today, it probably won't happen tomorrow but I can assure you ,if there are enough unhappy people there will be change.
I wonder how you will respond, "Let them eat cake" ,perhaps?
Last edited by max autobrakes; 1st Apr 2009 at 21:59.
Max Autobrakes
We all know just how hard it is to get that first step up.
The A320 is 7-12 years down the track (in this country anyway) after years of fighting to pay back loans and maybe even starting a family on $35-$55k, less than the average wage.
Where do we draw the line?
Should a 50 year old QF FO take a pay cut for command, just so he can log "A380 command" in his logbook?