New Ticket Team vying to wrest control of AIPA
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What The ,to use an oft' used phrase "What The".
Wayne, I believe the Dixon led management team started down this road of marginalisation of all unionised workers in Qantas well before the ARG came to power.
From what I saw, the ARG were purely a manifestation of the latent frustrations rank and file pilots were feeling.
Like I said "what came first ,the chicken or the egg?"
Wouldn't be a case either, of "look ,that is what happens" if you try to rise above your position, that we in Management have ordained for you.
You pilots need to be taught your place, and then you will find life will be much easier (untill the full business plan has been unveiled?)
See how much easier life is already!
Time will tell.
Wayne, I believe the Dixon led management team started down this road of marginalisation of all unionised workers in Qantas well before the ARG came to power.
From what I saw, the ARG were purely a manifestation of the latent frustrations rank and file pilots were feeling.
Like I said "what came first ,the chicken or the egg?"
Wouldn't be a case either, of "look ,that is what happens" if you try to rise above your position, that we in Management have ordained for you.
You pilots need to be taught your place, and then you will find life will be much easier (untill the full business plan has been unveiled?)
See how much easier life is already!
Time will tell.
Last edited by max autobrakes; 5th Jan 2009 at 22:13.
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Also, any truth to the rumour that Team Bazza are now systematically sacking office staff that were seen to be aligned with the previous president?
What was all that malarky about honesty and transparency,communication and accountability, talk about the pot calling the kettle black!
PS were's our pay rise please.
PPS any chance of an overall cost analysis of EBA8 vs EBA7 rollover,
I'd hate to think we were all hoodwinked by the anti WoodI team.
What was all that malarky about honesty and transparency,communication and accountability, talk about the pot calling the kettle black!
PS were's our pay rise please.
PPS any chance of an overall cost analysis of EBA8 vs EBA7 rollover,
I'd hate to think we were all hoodwinked by the anti WoodI team.
Last edited by blow.n.gasket; 12th Mar 2009 at 11:48.
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Right on Blown
- AIPA's GM has been declared redundant,
- El Presidentie has been
over, - Bazzy is but a talking head,
- the COM has swallowed the bait, hook, line and sinker,
- shades of deja vu.
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Spoke with El Presidentie today and what Blown and Unphased have said is all too true.
Talk about wasted opportunity. AIPA is again back in the hands of the wets.
What a stuff up - no stress, no strain, no pain and no future.
Well done AIPA.
Talk about wasted opportunity. AIPA is again back in the hands of the wets.
What a stuff up - no stress, no strain, no pain and no future.
Well done AIPA.
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Looks like you blokes blew the last chance you are ever going to get. If you pilots want to keep living in Australia, best you and your mates go back to school and get a trade as an engineer.
Any chance of a cost analysis between EBA 8 and EBA 7 rollover?
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How about enlightening us all on the contents of this new EBA. As to office staff leaving well I am sure it will not be as messy as when your ARG mates took over. It is so easy to sit on the side and s#%t stir.
The EBA is all but done by all accounts, let's just wait and see what is in it. Given the last one went down big time I doubt it will not be any worse.
The EBA is all but done by all accounts, let's just wait and see what is in it. Given the last one went down big time I doubt it will not be any worse.
I agree with funbags. The GM has to go as his performance is below par and he is certainly not as good as his predecessor.
The EBA7 rollover looks like a good deal with minimal offsets for a reasonable payrise. I believe that it will get up with a strong majority.
Most of the detractors of Team Bazza are obviously infatuated with his predecessor and are unwilling to let him have time to "get the runs on the board".
The EBA7 rollover looks like a good deal with minimal offsets for a reasonable payrise. I believe that it will get up with a strong majority.
Most of the detractors of Team Bazza are obviously infatuated with his predecessor and are unwilling to let him have time to "get the runs on the board".
Nunc est bibendum
The GM 'going' may or may not be a bad thing. It depends on what the strategic plan is going to be beyond that.
Personally I was glad that AIPA started to get some strategic direction and engagement with Canberra and the wider IR movement over the last few years. I'd be bitterly disappointed if with the GM's departure that we once again became the insular, narrow minded organisation we were when we missed out in getting a seat at the table for the J* discussions.
Time will tell.
Reeltime. Start the thread and I'm sure people will comment. It ain't there at the moment.
Personally I was glad that AIPA started to get some strategic direction and engagement with Canberra and the wider IR movement over the last few years. I'd be bitterly disappointed if with the GM's departure that we once again became the insular, narrow minded organisation we were when we missed out in getting a seat at the table for the J* discussions.
Time will tell.
Reeltime. Start the thread and I'm sure people will comment. It ain't there at the moment.
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Guys, the GM is going and discussing the situation on a public forum such as this is neither fair nor reasonable. No one here would like to be in that situation.
I agree; hash it out on Qrewroom.
I agree; hash it out on Qrewroom.
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What next from the AIPA executive?
All we need to hear now is announcement of re-employment of THAT lawyer and to complete the full circle all that is needed is a Holt back on Com, then the Company will truely be pleased with itself by having their stooges erasing the last vestiges of resistance.
Back to the way AIPA should be ,nothing more than a sub branch of Flight Ops that only acts as an Industrial bargaing agent .
Ahh all is once again peaceful in the Qantas Flight ops world until???.
All we need to hear now is announcement of re-employment of THAT lawyer and to complete the full circle all that is needed is a Holt back on Com, then the Company will truely be pleased with itself by having their stooges erasing the last vestiges of resistance.
Back to the way AIPA should be ,nothing more than a sub branch of Flight Ops that only acts as an Industrial bargaing agent .
Ahh all is once again peaceful in the Qantas Flight ops world until???.
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SkyScanner Quote:
A cost analysis on EBA 8 was never done
So SkyScanner a cost analysis on EBA8 was never done.
I would have thought that the Company at least would have done costings on such an important agreement!
So you mean to tell us that nobody had any idea what EBA8 was going to cost Qantas, yet management had finished negotiating the document which allowed the vote to be taken on said agreement.
I wonder if the shareholders and ASIC for that matter would be interested in such managerial incompetence!
Can't wait to see what EBA7 rollover has to offer.
What's the bet it will be nothing more than 3%/annum compounding.
If we're lucky you clowns may have even been able to sell enough of the family silverware to gain a token % improvement for a year or two ,but I won't hold my breath.
Can't wait to hear the town crier yelling "Hear ye ,Hear ye, look what we got,ain't we good!, PROBABLY NOT!"
A cost analysis on EBA 8 was never done
So SkyScanner a cost analysis on EBA8 was never done.
I would have thought that the Company at least would have done costings on such an important agreement!
So you mean to tell us that nobody had any idea what EBA8 was going to cost Qantas, yet management had finished negotiating the document which allowed the vote to be taken on said agreement.
I wonder if the shareholders and ASIC for that matter would be interested in such managerial incompetence!
Can't wait to see what EBA7 rollover has to offer.
What's the bet it will be nothing more than 3%/annum compounding.
If we're lucky you clowns may have even been able to sell enough of the family silverware to gain a token % improvement for a year or two ,but I won't hold my breath.
Can't wait to hear the town crier yelling "Hear ye ,Hear ye, look what we got,ain't we good!, PROBABLY NOT!"
Last edited by blow.n.gasket; 12th Mar 2009 at 12:06.
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Whatever is offered in the next EBA will be voted up due to the substantial amounts of backpay involved. Everyone will be lured by the joy of a big one off bonus payment (read 2 years + worth of 3%).
Even more importantly, the 380 gets a payrise, while I bet all offsets required will cost other fleets.
The chances of a simpler and fairer contract compared to the 60's dinosaur we currently have seem remote now. While many will be happy with this, all S/O's and F/O's should realise that we are just destroying their potential careers by not accepting change. While I voted no to the last EBA, it was in the hope that it would get improved. It seems many were of this same opinion.
Even more importantly, the 380 gets a payrise, while I bet all offsets required will cost other fleets.
The chances of a simpler and fairer contract compared to the 60's dinosaur we currently have seem remote now. While many will be happy with this, all S/O's and F/O's should realise that we are just destroying their potential careers by not accepting change. While I voted no to the last EBA, it was in the hope that it would get improved. It seems many were of this same opinion.
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There also seems to be a fair bit of discussion being generated in the bar with regard to LOA161. People are a bit concerned after the last insights that perhaps half the current COM support this dreadful LOA. Many of the membership really dislike this issue, and a majority are not even affected by it.
Personally, I think there is more to the vote (ie. half voted the way they did as they see a better way to resolve it). However, there seems to be a bit of angst from those who don't have the foresight to see it like this.
More communication needed AIPA.
Personally, I think there is more to the vote (ie. half voted the way they did as they see a better way to resolve it). However, there seems to be a bit of angst from those who don't have the foresight to see it like this.
More communication needed AIPA.
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A cost analysis on EBA 8 was never done
QF agree to put EBA8 to crew. Costing comes at about $80 million more than current agreement.
What to do? - use the qrewroom stooges & 400 S/O's to sink the EBA on their behalf.
I believe QF were very relieved the EBA went down.
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Yes it IS simple and effective..... because it is just a rollover. Very small changes for token pay rises.
My advice is to compare what you'd be earning under the old EBA8 to the new one. Guess what.. for 95% of pilots its LESS. The small percentage who will earn more will be A380 crews... Most of the AIPA Exec and particularly the senior A380 SO's who torpedoed the old EBA 8.
Compare a 12 year A380 SO; we will have some, and their rates compared to 12 year 767 FO's under the other system and the new rates. Very disturbing. If you want a ballpark figure, add 5% to the current 744 rates.
My advice is to compare what you'd be earning under the old EBA8 to the new one. Guess what.. for 95% of pilots its LESS. The small percentage who will earn more will be A380 crews... Most of the AIPA Exec and particularly the senior A380 SO's who torpedoed the old EBA 8.
Compare a 12 year A380 SO; we will have some, and their rates compared to 12 year 767 FO's under the other system and the new rates. Very disturbing. If you want a ballpark figure, add 5% to the current 744 rates.
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IMHO, the loss of Political and Financial acumen as a result of senior AIPA people being sidelined by this week’s skulduggery has set AIPA back a decade.
Nonetheless, Pruners should expect that any LHEBA put forward by AIPA right now, will be well supported. With the world the way it is, any chickens in it, or not in it, won’t come home to roost until Qantas has repaired its brand and made peace with the Pollies, its Shareholders and its Staff.
And those who believe in time capsules should note and file the following:
· Should promotional opportunity for Mainliners to move from Qantas to Qantas Jetstar and back again not eventuate - mainline S/O’s & F/O’s will take a heavy hit in the years ahead,
· The demise of LHEBA Version 1 - means ‘whole of life real income ‘for Mainliners not yet captains, will be much less than it otherwise would have been,, and
· It is likely that Qantas will demand more flexibility from its pilots than what LHEBA 8 Version 1 offered.
Don’t worry - Be happy - Spare a thought for those who have retired and living on 50% less super. Remember also that in times like these, seniority protects next generation captains from market forces.
Long live the good ship AIPA and all those who sail with her.
Nonetheless, Pruners should expect that any LHEBA put forward by AIPA right now, will be well supported. With the world the way it is, any chickens in it, or not in it, won’t come home to roost until Qantas has repaired its brand and made peace with the Pollies, its Shareholders and its Staff.
And those who believe in time capsules should note and file the following:
· Should promotional opportunity for Mainliners to move from Qantas to Qantas Jetstar and back again not eventuate - mainline S/O’s & F/O’s will take a heavy hit in the years ahead,
· The demise of LHEBA Version 1 - means ‘whole of life real income ‘for Mainliners not yet captains, will be much less than it otherwise would have been,, and
· It is likely that Qantas will demand more flexibility from its pilots than what LHEBA 8 Version 1 offered.
Don’t worry - Be happy - Spare a thought for those who have retired and living on 50% less super. Remember also that in times like these, seniority protects next generation captains from market forces.
Long live the good ship AIPA and all those who sail with her.