New Ticket Team vying to wrest control of AIPA
If you add overtime into the equation then the 767 rate wouldn't be so bad.
Really isn't the issue overtime?
I bet there would be decent amounts of overtime on the 787 when it finally gets up and going.
Really isn't the issue overtime?
I bet there would be decent amounts of overtime on the 787 when it finally gets up and going.
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Are you really that naive wingspar?
Try 767 hourly rate under a Shorthaul/JetStar inspired contract.
There won't be any overtime as you know it, only o'time pay at the hourly rate if you fly above, I'm assuming 75 stick hours a month.
Fantastic!
I can see the slogan now "All Night ,Every Night ,Average pay!"
Try 767 hourly rate under a Shorthaul/JetStar inspired contract.
There won't be any overtime as you know it, only o'time pay at the hourly rate if you fly above, I'm assuming 75 stick hours a month.
Fantastic!
I can see the slogan now "All Night ,Every Night ,Average pay!"
Wasn't too long ago that some were saying that the A380 would come in silver and orange and flown under JQ pay and conditions!
NEWSFLASH!!!!!!!!!!
Not only is the thing operated under the LHCA, mainline crew will get paid 5% more than the current highest rate! So what makes you think anything will be different when the 787 turns up?
Sorry to burst your bubble but you brought it up!
NEWSFLASH!!!!!!!!!!
Not only is the thing operated under the LHCA, mainline crew will get paid 5% more than the current highest rate! So what makes you think anything will be different when the 787 turns up?
Sorry to burst your bubble but you brought it up!
Not only is the thing operated under the LHCA, mainline crew will get paid 5% more than the current highest rate! So what makes you think anything will be different when the 787 turns up?
Will that collective resolve still be evident when push comes to shove regarding the T & C's of the "subordinate" ranks?
Lets see if the "new" relationship between our AIPA leaders and Charlie Q is all they proclaim when we are out of our protective bargaining period wrapped up in the gossamer shroud that is our EBA rollover.
Last edited by CaptCloudbuster; 13th Apr 2009 at 23:23.
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Why?
What could happen?
Changes have been announced today and voting on the EBA has not even commenced.
I don't see what the threat of being out of the protected bargaining period is seeing that industrial action can only be sanctioned if it is being taken in support of the log of claims.
What are you really scared of? Be more specific.
What could happen?
Changes have been announced today and voting on the EBA has not even commenced.
I don't see what the threat of being out of the protected bargaining period is seeing that industrial action can only be sanctioned if it is being taken in support of the log of claims.
What are you really scared of? Be more specific.
Why?
What could happen?
What could happen?
Changes have been announced today and voting on the EBA has not even commenced.
What are you really scared of? Be more specific.
I am happy to stand corrected - let's look back in 12 months time and see what transpired.
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Doesn't the EBA document you are voting on state that redundancies are in reverse order of seniority?
Are you saying that one party to the document could choose to ignore the agreement on this issue?
Wouldn't there be a problem with that?
P.S. I'm not naive, I just don't jump at shadows.
Are you saying that one party to the document could choose to ignore the agreement on this issue?
Wouldn't there be a problem with that?
P.S. I'm not naive, I just don't jump at shadows.
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What The,
EBA7/&1/2 is pre WorkChoices legislation. Have a look at the Workplace Relations Act 1996 the Act which empowers this agreement. The same act that empowered the Kendalls Pilots agreement.
When Kendalls got rid of the CRJ did the junior pilots on the Saab get the axe and the more senior pilots on the CRJ get retrained onto the Saab?
Do you still feel empowered? I wonder if the company could use that court action as legal precedence when it comes time to axing the 767 and replacing it with the 787?
Is that why the 787 is being introduced into JetStars first ,in order to establish a contractual precedence? What happens to all the surplus 767 pilots axed out of seniority which apparently is legal under the Workplace Relations Act 1996 as proven with Kendalls?
The company fires and then turns around and says 'Here's a job if you want it ,and these are the terms and conditions" What's the bet they ain't offered the LHCA to fly the 787.
Wingspar I think you will find the a380 was introduced under EBA7 terms and conditions because of a contractual obligation under EBA6 ,I think it was. No such clause exists in the rollover document ,only a motherhood statement that is about as useless as the paper it's written on.
Who's bubble has sprung a leak now?
I wonder if EBA8 had of got up ,you know the one that was written to comply with post WorkChoices Legislation ,would we have beeen any safer in the event of a massive downturn when it comes to enforcing seniority.
I wonder if this had anything to do with certain company oriented individuals motives with regards to that EBA?
PS I know for a fact a mate of mine on Com has raised these questions because I put him onto it. I wonder why Team Bazza aren't interested in getting any legal opinion on this very contentious question?
Probably don't want to muddy the waters whilst the EBA vote is still open, can't afford to miss out on that 5% pay rise on the BlundaBus can we.
EBA7/&1/2 is pre WorkChoices legislation. Have a look at the Workplace Relations Act 1996 the Act which empowers this agreement. The same act that empowered the Kendalls Pilots agreement.
When Kendalls got rid of the CRJ did the junior pilots on the Saab get the axe and the more senior pilots on the CRJ get retrained onto the Saab?
Do you still feel empowered? I wonder if the company could use that court action as legal precedence when it comes time to axing the 767 and replacing it with the 787?
Is that why the 787 is being introduced into JetStars first ,in order to establish a contractual precedence? What happens to all the surplus 767 pilots axed out of seniority which apparently is legal under the Workplace Relations Act 1996 as proven with Kendalls?
The company fires and then turns around and says 'Here's a job if you want it ,and these are the terms and conditions" What's the bet they ain't offered the LHCA to fly the 787.
Wingspar I think you will find the a380 was introduced under EBA7 terms and conditions because of a contractual obligation under EBA6 ,I think it was. No such clause exists in the rollover document ,only a motherhood statement that is about as useless as the paper it's written on.
Who's bubble has sprung a leak now?
I wonder if EBA8 had of got up ,you know the one that was written to comply with post WorkChoices Legislation ,would we have beeen any safer in the event of a massive downturn when it comes to enforcing seniority.
I wonder if this had anything to do with certain company oriented individuals motives with regards to that EBA?
PS I know for a fact a mate of mine on Com has raised these questions because I put him onto it. I wonder why Team Bazza aren't interested in getting any legal opinion on this very contentious question?
Probably don't want to muddy the waters whilst the EBA vote is still open, can't afford to miss out on that 5% pay rise on the BlundaBus can we.
Last edited by blow.n.gasket; 14th Apr 2009 at 06:16.
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What the,
forget your reverse seniority scenario, as blow.n. wrote. The precedent has been set. VB are reducing crew on the Boeing only. QF will mount the same argument in the IRC as KD did almost 10 years ago, and most likely win.
Blow.n is more articulate than I. My belief is that basically the IRC will wipe your EBA like a dirty arse if the company can prove that it will suffer irreparable (financial) damage if it were forced to retrench in reverse seniority (along the lines of retraining costs, etc). God, they rejected regional pilots for years on that excuse alone!
I hope I'm wrong. History shows I probably won't be (if you guys push the point into the IRC). I hope QF has the smarts to sort it out with burning up leave etc. rather than redundancies.
Good luck.
forget your reverse seniority scenario, as blow.n. wrote. The precedent has been set. VB are reducing crew on the Boeing only. QF will mount the same argument in the IRC as KD did almost 10 years ago, and most likely win.
Blow.n is more articulate than I. My belief is that basically the IRC will wipe your EBA like a dirty arse if the company can prove that it will suffer irreparable (financial) damage if it were forced to retrench in reverse seniority (along the lines of retraining costs, etc). God, they rejected regional pilots for years on that excuse alone!
I hope I'm wrong. History shows I probably won't be (if you guys push the point into the IRC). I hope QF has the smarts to sort it out with burning up leave etc. rather than redundancies.
Good luck.
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And 2000+ Qantas pilots are going to sit around and allow that to happen without consequences for Qantas?
If you all truely believe that to be the case then your Certified Agreement is not worth a pinch of poop to start with.
Christ, have some faith or bend over.
It is like the scenario where people agree to pay for their training in order to undercut existing crew operating a current type within the group. Those 767 crew, if cut adrift wouldn't do that.
Would they?
A380/B744 at 300k for a Capt and 200k for an FO wouldn't look to bad.
Grow some balls folks and stop behaving like friggin scared rabbits.
If you all truely believe that to be the case then your Certified Agreement is not worth a pinch of poop to start with.
Christ, have some faith or bend over.
It is like the scenario where people agree to pay for their training in order to undercut existing crew operating a current type within the group. Those 767 crew, if cut adrift wouldn't do that.
Would they?
A380/B744 at 300k for a Capt and 200k for an FO wouldn't look to bad.
Grow some balls folks and stop behaving like friggin scared rabbits.
Grow some balls folks and stop behaving like friggin scared rabbits.
Word on the street Team Bazza had to agonise over the simple issue of just saying NO to any further AIPA concessions recently regarding the cut and dried allowances issue - and that was with a UNANIMOUS COM DIRECTIVE!
Doesn't bode well for the future then.
I've been reliably informed the same stooges are itching to scratch the QANTAS SALE ACT CASE currently underway.
AIPA members start asking some questions from YOUR COM. The issue as explained to me shows this action is the last remaining negotiating tool remaining
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Hugh Jarse and Blow'n ,basically correct in your summations except for one important fact, Qantas will not be able to petition the Commissioner until your EBA has expired. Once your EBA is expired it is a fairly easy set of hurdles to cross reference petitioning changes to your contract.
Therefore I believe Qantas pilots will be OK until your next EBA!
Which is due when? 2010? Except due to this economic downturn for the possibility of retrenchments prior . What's your surplus at present 140+ ?
As Capt Cloud Buster has pointed out ,you will need as much industrial leverage as is humanly possible to bolster your position.
The Qantas Sale Act sounds like a good place to start, use it don't lose it.
Therefore I believe Qantas pilots will be OK until your next EBA!
Which is due when? 2010? Except due to this economic downturn for the possibility of retrenchments prior . What's your surplus at present 140+ ?
As Capt Cloud Buster has pointed out ,you will need as much industrial leverage as is humanly possible to bolster your position.
The Qantas Sale Act sounds like a good place to start, use it don't lose it.
