New Ticket Team vying to wrest control of AIPA
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DD,
Not really sure what you're getting at. It's either implemented ... or it's not implemented.
If you have to ask the question, you probably don't understand the concept.
Anyway, GOAL has been and gone. I'm not going to hijack this thread, if you feel the need to discuss it, start a new one
Not really sure what you're getting at. It's either implemented ... or it's not implemented.
If you have to ask the question, you probably don't understand the concept.Anyway, GOAL has been and gone. I'm not going to hijack this thread, if you feel the need to discuss it, start a new one
Last edited by 'holic; 17th Dec 2008 at 06:27.
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Hard lessons being learned?
The extreme naivety of both the new AIPA team and Qantas pilots in general is becoming evident.
Team Bazza was elected in the main because they felt that a spirit of "niceness" with the Company was needed, and the more combative approach of IW was holding AIPA back. Many rank and file QF pilots also agreed with this view.
Well guess what? Nothing has changed with the attitude of the Company.
BJ went to Senior managment very early on to "ask" about the allowance situation and the MOU and the rollover of the EBA. I am sure the knock-back he got was very politely delivered as well. The story going around is that the new President took this very badly and rang around most of the COM, (except the former Executive), told them what had happened and wanted to know if anyone had any ideas?!!?
Nothing will change unless QF pilots and AIPA negotiate with some spine. You will get nothing out of QF on the basis that "we deserve it!"
Maybe some of the people who took to IW with such a vengeance should be offering an apology.
Grow some cojones AIPA and QF guys! The Engineers showed how to do it. Learn from their example.
Team Bazza was elected in the main because they felt that a spirit of "niceness" with the Company was needed, and the more combative approach of IW was holding AIPA back. Many rank and file QF pilots also agreed with this view.
Well guess what? Nothing has changed with the attitude of the Company.
BJ went to Senior managment very early on to "ask" about the allowance situation and the MOU and the rollover of the EBA. I am sure the knock-back he got was very politely delivered as well. The story going around is that the new President took this very badly and rang around most of the COM, (except the former Executive), told them what had happened and wanted to know if anyone had any ideas?!!?
Nothing will change unless QF pilots and AIPA negotiate with some spine. You will get nothing out of QF on the basis that "we deserve it!"
Maybe some of the people who took to IW with such a vengeance should be offering an apology.
Grow some cojones AIPA and QF guys! The Engineers showed how to do it. Learn from their example.
Holic,we all know it is not implemented and we also know that is because Q opposes it vehemently and AIPA is unable to change that.As I stated previously it is all just chicanery.
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Be patient Lusty. Pruners need to give Bizza’s team enough time to work their “softly softly" magic with the Lepracorn..
If Bizza can't get an EBA up by next committee election, I have it on good authority that the ARG’s leaders to intend to run another ticket to win back control of the COM.
If the number of people wanting to get an EBA up before the economy implodes is growing as fast as bar talk suggests and Struggling’s view that the ARG has been promoting:
· continuing LHEBA 7 to the end of 2009· increasing hourly rates by 3% pa back dated to 2006· building pilot ownership in Qantas by accepting shares in the company when CPI exceeds 3%· fixing the long haul allowance fiasco and having the company agree to giving all Qantas group pilots a mainline seniority number.
Comes to pass
It may well mean that El Presidente can pull off a repeat of little Johnnies lazurith with a triple bypass stunt...
If Bizza can't get an EBA up by next committee election, I have it on good authority that the ARG’s leaders to intend to run another ticket to win back control of the COM.
If the number of people wanting to get an EBA up before the economy implodes is growing as fast as bar talk suggests and Struggling’s view that the ARG has been promoting:
· continuing LHEBA 7 to the end of 2009· increasing hourly rates by 3% pa back dated to 2006· building pilot ownership in Qantas by accepting shares in the company when CPI exceeds 3%· fixing the long haul allowance fiasco and having the company agree to giving all Qantas group pilots a mainline seniority number.
Comes to pass
It may well mean that El Presidente can pull off a repeat of little Johnnies lazurith with a triple bypass stunt...
Last edited by Gingerbread; 17th Dec 2008 at 22:53.
Nunc est bibendum
Sorry, any pay increase that doesn't include 5% in it for the last two years isn't getting a 'yes' from me unless the 'ownership' compensates well above and beyond that figure.
At least I am being asked this time......better than getting something thrust upon me. If we are ever going to change EVERYONE must be brought along for the ride......not just a select few.
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Seems that Lusty's belief that Gingerbeer's have more spine and bigger cojones than the kangaroo's flight crew has suddenly got a ring of truth about it.
Gemma Daley at Bloomberg say:
Is time for Bizza and the boys to cut a deal.
But as Ked said "any pay increase that doesn't include 5% in it for the last two years isn't likely to get a yes...unless of course Ginger's idea of 'ownership' compensates well above and beyond that figure."
Gemma Daley at Bloomberg say:
Qantas Airways Ltd has agreed to an average pay rise of 16 percent over four years for maintenance workers, who this year forced delays during an industrial campaign over wages, the Australian Financial Review said.
Qantas, in a bid to avoid further industrial action, will also increase staff retirement benefits to 10 percent from 9 percent, the newspaper said, citing Australian Manufacturing Workers Union national secretaryDave Oliver.
Some 1,500 maintenance workers will vote on the agreement, expected to be finalized mid-January after being recommended by union negotiators, the Review said.
Qantas, in a bid to avoid further industrial action, will also increase staff retirement benefits to 10 percent from 9 percent, the newspaper said, citing Australian Manufacturing Workers Union national secretaryDave Oliver.
Some 1,500 maintenance workers will vote on the agreement, expected to be finalized mid-January after being recommended by union negotiators, the Review said.
But as Ked said "any pay increase that doesn't include 5% in it for the last two years isn't likely to get a yes...unless of course Ginger's idea of 'ownership' compensates well above and beyond that figure."
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Or the company could just turn around and say "get stuffed we 'aint giving you anything"! Knowing full well that the pilots would never pull together like the engineers did. Combine that with the ever increasing numbers of workers being laid off around Australia and the heart rendering media campaign that could be waged if those overpaid prima donna pilots went on an industrial campaign would play into the comany's marginalisation plans nicely.
At least Qantas pilots would then be narrowing the wage gap on Jetstar.
At least Qantas pilots would then be narrowing the wage gap on Jetstar.
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Company Executives just received the latest copy of insights 
They were overjoyed by the strength of team Bazza's terse response to no progress in EBA negotiations. Time for an SGM to get rid of the lot and start again 
me thinks!
They were overjoyed by the strength of team Bazza's terse response to no progress in EBA negotiations. Time for an SGM to get rid of the lot and start again me thinks!
Nunc est bibendum
This is just QF argy bargy trying to put the new President under the pump to see how he (and the rest of us) will react. The QF action about time relief for the exec should make clear the QF intentions and the continued stalling of progressing an EBA should also be a good indicator of the way that QF intends on playing this game.
Time will tell as to how 'we' respond. Either way, this president (as with the last) has my support in getting a good outcome.
Time will tell as to how 'we' respond. Either way, this president (as with the last) has my support in getting a good outcome.
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Well the honeymoon didn't last too long did it!
Welcome to the real world Team Bazza.
PS how's "the EBA will be finalised by Christmas" going?
Was that Christmas 2009 perchance?
Steve Creedy, Aviation writer | January 02, 2009
Article from: The Australian
QANTAS is considering axing its loss-making Sydney-Mumbai service after a disagreement with its pilots' union over meal allowances.
The airline will be forced to divert today's flight through Melbourne after the Australian and International Pilots Association refused to renew a concession that allows pilots to fly beyond hours outlined in their enterprise agreement.
The concession's end on Wednesday means Qantas must now change crews in Melbourne before continuing on to Mumbai instead of flying non-stop from Sydney.
However, an airline source said this would increase losses on the route and was likely to be the final straw for the service.
This could also mean new Airbus A330s slated for Qantas's mainline operations could now be sent to Jetstar and that would mean less flying for Qantas A330 pilots.
The A330 concession had been allowed to continue despite the overwhelming rejection in a pilot vote last year of a new enterprise agreement.
AIPA said pilot dissatisfaction had increased since then because meal allowances had not been updated for three years and were now significantly lower than those received by cabin crew.
Before Christmas, AIPA's executive committee decided it would not grant further concessions until the meal allowance issue was resolved.
But Qantas thinks the issue should be included in wider EBA talks.
AIPA vice-president Richard Woodward said Qantas did not help its case by waiting until the last minute before asking for an extension to the concession.
He said the airline had been told the extension for the A330s was coming up but had done nothing until the Airbus fleet manager wrote to the union on Tuesday.
"We couldn't do anything about it on such short notice and we had a committee meeting in December which decided we would give the company no more concessions against our contract until the allowances were brought up to parity with the cabin crew," he said.
Mr Woodward accused Qantas of using the allowance disagreement as a smokescreen for other reasons for pulling out of Mumbai.
Qantas began flying to Mumbai in 2004 and the service gained notoriety in 2006 when British actor Ralph Fiennes and flight attendant Lisa Robertson had sex in an A330 toilet.
It began operating the route using an A330-300 with a stopover in Darwin but moved to a non-stop service using a smaller A330-200 in an attempt to stem losses believed at that stage to be more than $20 million a year.
Welcome to the real world Team Bazza.
PS how's "the EBA will be finalised by Christmas" going?
Was that Christmas 2009 perchance?
Steve Creedy, Aviation writer | January 02, 2009
Article from: The Australian
QANTAS is considering axing its loss-making Sydney-Mumbai service after a disagreement with its pilots' union over meal allowances.
The airline will be forced to divert today's flight through Melbourne after the Australian and International Pilots Association refused to renew a concession that allows pilots to fly beyond hours outlined in their enterprise agreement.
The concession's end on Wednesday means Qantas must now change crews in Melbourne before continuing on to Mumbai instead of flying non-stop from Sydney.
However, an airline source said this would increase losses on the route and was likely to be the final straw for the service.
This could also mean new Airbus A330s slated for Qantas's mainline operations could now be sent to Jetstar and that would mean less flying for Qantas A330 pilots.
The A330 concession had been allowed to continue despite the overwhelming rejection in a pilot vote last year of a new enterprise agreement.
AIPA said pilot dissatisfaction had increased since then because meal allowances had not been updated for three years and were now significantly lower than those received by cabin crew.
Before Christmas, AIPA's executive committee decided it would not grant further concessions until the meal allowance issue was resolved.
But Qantas thinks the issue should be included in wider EBA talks.
AIPA vice-president Richard Woodward said Qantas did not help its case by waiting until the last minute before asking for an extension to the concession.
He said the airline had been told the extension for the A330s was coming up but had done nothing until the Airbus fleet manager wrote to the union on Tuesday.
"We couldn't do anything about it on such short notice and we had a committee meeting in December which decided we would give the company no more concessions against our contract until the allowances were brought up to parity with the cabin crew," he said.
Mr Woodward accused Qantas of using the allowance disagreement as a smokescreen for other reasons for pulling out of Mumbai.
Qantas began flying to Mumbai in 2004 and the service gained notoriety in 2006 when British actor Ralph Fiennes and flight attendant Lisa Robertson had sex in an A330 toilet.
It began operating the route using an A330-300 with a stopover in Darwin but moved to a non-stop service using a smaller A330-200 in an attempt to stem losses believed at that stage to be more than $20 million a year.
max autobrakes
What solution would you offer?
Seeing that article brought a big smile to my face and tells me the new team at AIPA have their heads screwed on the right way.
The allowance matter is getting beyond a joke and if the company wants it to be sorted out in a new EBA (whenever that may be), then so should the Mumbai operation on the A330. Until then, it's back to working under the rules of EBA7.
What solution would you offer?
Seeing that article brought a big smile to my face and tells me the new team at AIPA have their heads screwed on the right way.
"But Qantas thinks the issue should be included in wider EBA talks".
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TL, the old team at AIPA offered the same solution early last year and got shouted down. Did they have their heads screwed on straight as well?Maybe this time around the rank and file can see past their own noses?
Capt,
As I'm not an A330 pilot so I can't make a completely informed comment, but when the idea of LAX and BOM ops with 4 crew was first brought up in late 2007, the 330 drivers were coming off a period of very low divisors, forced leave etc and were understandably very keen to get their hands on some more flying.
Not only that, but the pilot body in general saw the allowance issue potentially being resolved in the upcoming EBA8. Whilst the failed EBA did go some way to addressing the allowance issue, it did so in tandem with plenty of negatives and as we all know, got voted down in a big way.
This time around, I think it's fair to say everyone is a little more pissed off - "give a little, get a little" comes to mind, but there's not much "getting" going on!
As I'm not an A330 pilot so I can't make a completely informed comment, but when the idea of LAX and BOM ops with 4 crew was first brought up in late 2007, the 330 drivers were coming off a period of very low divisors, forced leave etc and were understandably very keen to get their hands on some more flying.
Not only that, but the pilot body in general saw the allowance issue potentially being resolved in the upcoming EBA8. Whilst the failed EBA did go some way to addressing the allowance issue, it did so in tandem with plenty of negatives and as we all know, got voted down in a big way.
This time around, I think it's fair to say everyone is a little more pissed off - "give a little, get a little" comes to mind, but there's not much "getting" going on!
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I think Kremin hit the nail on the head.
This all smacks very much of some sort of campaign to oust the previous mob. Why? Much of what WoodI did and was doing continues, it has to ,because it's a very narrow path industrialy one is allowed to tread nowdays.
It seems no matter what the previous mob did there was the peanut gallery chorus ready to spray bile. Sling enough mud some will stick, eh?
Team Bazza found they couldn't get rid of WoodI in a general election and very cleverly, through what would appear to have been a wide spread negativity campaign (very much in the same vein as modern day American electioneering )convinced ,or at least cast enough doubt in the minds of enough on Comm to go with change.The rest is history.
Let's just get on with it 'cos I'm waiting for my long over due pay rise, which I'd like to get before those blunts in Management roll out their next nimrod inspired plans to downsize Qantas and right size JetStar.
This all smacks very much of some sort of campaign to oust the previous mob. Why? Much of what WoodI did and was doing continues, it has to ,because it's a very narrow path industrialy one is allowed to tread nowdays.
It seems no matter what the previous mob did there was the peanut gallery chorus ready to spray bile. Sling enough mud some will stick, eh?
Team Bazza found they couldn't get rid of WoodI in a general election and very cleverly, through what would appear to have been a wide spread negativity campaign (very much in the same vein as modern day American electioneering )convinced ,or at least cast enough doubt in the minds of enough on Comm to go with change.The rest is history.
Let's just get on with it 'cos I'm waiting for my long over due pay rise, which I'd like to get before those blunts in Management roll out their next nimrod inspired plans to downsize Qantas and right size JetStar.
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TL, granted, but they would have gotten the flying anyway. AIPA just needed to hold its nerve. As has been pointed out elsewhere, J* Intl was never going to get that flying with the fleet size they have. The threat at the moment is empty yet people continue to fall for it.
As for the report in the Australian, even if QF pull out of Mumbai, can anyone seriously tell me that QF are going to let 2 brand new A330-200s sit around doing nothing just to teach mainline A330 pilots a lesson about rocking the boat?
Give me a break. They will deploy the aircraft on other routes and there will be no flying lost.
As for the report in the Australian, even if QF pull out of Mumbai, can anyone seriously tell me that QF are going to let 2 brand new A330-200s sit around doing nothing just to teach mainline A330 pilots a lesson about rocking the boat?
Give me a break. They will deploy the aircraft on other routes and there will be no flying lost.