Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

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Old 25th Sep 2010, 08:49
  #641 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Posts: 270
Indeed, I don't know why Australians assume that Asian salaries are low. Perhaps unskilled salaries in Singapore (for cleaners, waiters, bus drivers and the sorts) are really low due to a combination of Singaporeans refusing to do such jobs and hundreds of millions of foreigners in neighbouring countries willing to do such jobs for very little, but skilled wages for anyone with some sort of a skill are by no means low. Especially since the pound and USD have depreciated significantly against the S$, the average graduate salary in the UK is now lower than the average SIN grad salary.

Capt Roo - regarding your comment:
No doubt we will argue and fight using our Euro-centric logic that for some reason we deserve European/American wages, when our economy is dependent on Asia and all our competitors are based there.

Most citizens of countries which reach a certain level of development will have a huge sense of entitlement to what they deserve in terms of compensation. Not just Aussies, but also Western Europeans, and most people in the first world, and even Singaporeans (perhaps even myself included) have a huge sense of entitlement as to what we deserve to be paid. That's because our parents' generation worked hard to get the country to where it is today, and my generation has not known poverty or strife etc, and thus believe that our standard of living and way of life is our god given right.

Also do bear in mind wages in the USA, which has the most productive workforce on earth, are not that high. They work long hours, have fewer public holidays and start with 2 weeks of leave a year. I have contacts who work with SIAEC and ST Aerospace who through their associate companies have operations in the USA. The engineer salaries in Singapore are slightly higher than those in the USA - and the US folks have fewer leave entitlements. The plunging US$ also makes the US a cheaper place to do business - so I can't understand why the US companies are outsourcing in such a big way to perceived "cheaper" countries.

I mean, all universities these days basically teach the same things and use the same textbooks, so I can't see how the average Singaporean engineering graduate would be better or worse than the average American or Australian engineering graduate.

Regarding corruption - I think the corruption indices measure things like ability to bribe public servants, influence tender processes through "unconventional" means, having a stringent and impartial judiciary in handling commercial and civil matters, and getting things done in business just because you know the right person (though I'd argue that knowing the right people in any country on earth does help).

In that regard, Singapore performs very well. Corruption should not be confused with political freedom.

These indices do not measure political freedom, which is different from corruption. In 99.9% of countries, those which rank poorly in political freedom are usually extremely corrupt. Singapore is thus the exception rather than the norm.
DrPepz is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2010, 09:55
  #642 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 254
And while we're at it.

What sort of a country can terminate the employment of the Malaysian head of the pilots union, cancel his work permit with immediate effect and deport him the next day - just because he was the head of the union?

Metro Man perhaps you might like to answer that question.

Singapore = corruption free! Depends how you categorise corruption.
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Old 25th Sep 2010, 12:44
  #643 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Posts: 270
The episode regarding Captain Ryan Goh's deportation and the surrounding controversy is nicely summed up in this article, written by a Malaysian publication over 6 years ago.


Lee Kuan Yew and SIA

Pilot Ryan
Does it change things?
Fears that it will reverse Singapore's 'opening up' seem exaggerated. Here's why. By Seah Chiang Nee.
Mar 14, 2004

MONTHS away from his son becoming premier, Senior Minister Lee Kuan Yew has acted to revoke the permanent resident status of a Malaysian citizen for "instigating" a labour dispute.

It’s the first time since 1990, when he stepped down as Prime Minister, that such action has been taken.

SIA pilot and union representative Ryan Goh Yew Hock, who has lived here for 26 years, was accused by SM Lee of trying to instigate a union revolt against the government-controlled airline.

The subsequent cancellation of his PR status - pending the outcome of his appeal - was seen as a warning to foreign residents not to meddle in domestic issues.

In the 60s, this would have passed as a non-event by people who knew him well.

But in the 21st century, with a whole new generation of better educated citizens, what he did has caused concern - even anger - among people who know little about his role in history.

The episode has given rise to complications, which veteran People’s Action Party (PAP) MP Tan Cheng Bock brought up in Parliament.

Firstly, Singaporeans felt disquiet that Lee had to step in and, secondly, it raised questions in people’s minds about the younger ministers’ capability to handle such problems, Tan said.

He was reflecting what the public generally felt.

People were asking: Why did Prime Minister Goh Chok Tong or the minister in charge keep quiet when it was happening? Were they agreeable to SM Lee’s action?

SM Lee had accused the Malaysian-born pilot of being the "chief instigator" behind the move to sack the SIA pilots’ union leadership after it had approved pay and job cuts during the SARS crisis.

Unhappy with the union’s concession, the majority of members eventually did just that. The plan was for a new team to confront SIA in forthcoming negotiations.

Ryan Goh, Lee alleged, had "surreptitiously" taken actions "that would undermine industrial peace in SIA and also put the economic interests of Singapore at risk".

Lee revealed that Goh had accepted permanent residence in Australia, bought a house in Perth, moved his family and car there - and sold his flat in Singapore. It implied he was preparing an escape route should things go wrong.

Lee told the pilots: "It is not just SIA that goes down, but you go down, too."

He added that it was different for permanent residents such as Goh because they could "opt out".

To some critics, it raised a bigger question of a possible change of leadership style after the milder Goh Chok Tong retires as premier, probably this year.

The elder Lee’s move came just after his son had promised in a newspaper interview to continue with the process of opening up society on taking over.

SM Lee had also said he would remain in his present position after the changeover.

Despite his declining health, the 80-year-old Lee has been enhancing his political role in recent months that seemed to show dissatisfaction with the way some things were run.

He had stepped in to take charge of the SIA labour conflict, evidently on feeling that his younger colleagues were too soft or hesitant in dealing with it and allowing a potential threat to build up.

With his mind still quick and alert, Lee had earlier declared that Singapore was too small for two competing domestic television networks.

Then he reportedly called up editors and journalists of a daily tabloid for a tongue-lashing session.

In an interview obviously targeting his younger ministers, Lee said he did not believe in a populist government whose policies were just to win votes.

This was not something new. In the past, he had said that Singapore would have been in trouble if his actions were based on meeting public demands.

Long before he stepped down, he had been advising his successor on the need to run a "tight ship" and once chided Goh for not being firm enough.

Lee had ruled with two ingredients - superior logic and fear - which transformed Singapore from a poor, squalid city with high unemployment and low education into an affluent, global city.

Many in Singapore’s heartland, especially the baby-boomers, still admire him but youths, raised under new circumstances, think differently.

Does his handling of the SIA dispute mean that Singapore is reverting to Lee’s authoritarian past?

The answer is no. It’s not possible. The trend is towards a more open society.

I believe pilot Goh’s case was a one-off action rather than the beginning of a new political trend.

It came because of Lee’s personal conviction that, unless firmly handled, this dispute would lead to a dangerous confrontation with far-reaching impact for Singapore’s economy.

SIA is no ordinary company. On its shoulders lies the bulk of the city’s tourism industry and up to 100,000 jobs.

Living with constant dangers had made what Lee is - even today. He has a suspicious mind that makes him act when others debate.

On spotting danger signs, as in the case of the SIA dispute, his instinct is to act firmly and if he erred, it would be erring on the side of caution.

However, what he did and how he ruled are less relevant today. It is unlikely to be how his son, Hsien Loong, will behave when he takes over.

The troubles confronting Singapore and the new economic necessities, both globally and internally, have changed dramatically. So have Singapore’s highly educated population and even the ruling PAP.

Where Kuan Yew had used logic and the stick, Hsien Loong has to resort to persuasion.

The stick (tough, punishing laws) could be effective when Singapore was dealing with communists, violent extremists, kidnappers or simply people who spit.

But legislation alone cannot be relied on to resolve today’s type of pressing problems of citizens’ emigration, marriage and procreation, work ethics, loyalty and promoting entrepreneurs - which is what the new leader is faced with.

For that persuasion must take precedence.

The process of de-control, I believe, will continue steadily and, at times, hesitatingly. The question is not 'if' but 'how fast', especially in the political arena where it's a lot slower. Critics want a faster pace.

(This is an update of an article published in Sunday Star).
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Old 26th Sep 2010, 07:37
  #644 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 1999
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Any update on the EBA?

Plane 10 coming must mean any CASA/technical issues, if there were any, must now be sorted!
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Old 26th Sep 2010, 09:16
  #645 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 542
A/C 10 arrives soon. YES. So how many pilots would they have now? 80-90???. Starting to be a major employer in this country, we had better hope they dont go broke.

I personally dont think they'll fail as they have the lowest costs on everything. That doesn't mean they are a good employer though, with their crappy T & C's and future unknown. Good luck to those who get a start with them at least its a start I guess.
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Old 26th Sep 2010, 09:26
  #646 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 542
So where is this 10th aircraft supposed to be based?
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Old 27th Sep 2010, 08:10
  #647 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Posts: 1,162
Anyone care to tell us why VH-VNJ has left the country...? causing absolute chaos across the domestic network

9V-TAN also left Singas for TLS...what up pussycat?

Last edited by wheels_down; 27th Sep 2010 at 08:31.
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Old 27th Sep 2010, 09:24
  #648 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Newcastle, Australia
Posts: 73
Anyone care to tell us why VH-VNJ has left the country...?

Guess your didn't look too hard - it was still in Adelaide 20 minutes ago...
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Old 28th Sep 2010, 02:53
  #649 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Australia
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VNJ's supposed to be flying ADL - MEL today so I hope it's still in the country!
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Old 28th Sep 2010, 06:42
  #650 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Jungle
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9V-TAN also left Singas for TLS...what up pussycat?

Major work needed for brake system. Can only be done by manufacturer.
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Old 28th Sep 2010, 09:32
  #651 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 57
Major work needed for brake system. Can only be done by manufacturer.
Ouch! Sounds like these new aircraft are pretty unreliable! What gives!?
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Old 1st Oct 2010, 14:34
  #652 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Posts: 270
Got this off the Far East forum

I've heard "rumours" that Tiger is in some kind of trouble with CAAS with their recently recruited pilots from around the region. Apparently, their standards were found wanting. As a result Tiger has delayed line training for the 200-hour pilots they took in a few months back. Also they will not be taking in anymore 200-hour pilot for the rest of the year?

Can anyone confirm this? I'm a fresh 200-hour pilot and would like to apply for Tiger. No news from them so far.

cruisecruiser... I heard that too. I here that any job offer will only stand if CAAS will grant you a Singaporean licence and CAAS have stoppped giving them out to 200hr non CAAS Integrated people or forced Tiger to increase their requirements (whilst 1500hrs has always been the official requirement, I know of many who got in with a lot less - as low as 200 as you say).

Besides... online application says something to the effect that, 'don't expect to receive a reply if continuing with the online application whilst not meeting the hours requirements'.

The pilot shortage is definitely under control, with 15 departures out of 33 cancelled today... go Tiger!

Johnlenon forgot to mention oversized ops and training departments busy preparing for the new fleets, regulatory approvals received yesterday...

Cruisecruiser : get real!
DrPepz is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2010, 15:48
  #653 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
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Gotta love the no bullshit#e approach from the Singaporean authority.
The failure rate is 9 out of 10 with the new employees.

The local operation has put out the "please help' panic banner for pilots to transfer to Singapore without even knowing the minimum in, we will upgrade you if you go up there, without even knowing that you guys haven't got their minimums....
Just a school boy error then.
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Old 1st Oct 2010, 17:10
  #654 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Posts: 270
I read a couple of months back that Tiger was using pilots from Mandala Airlines to fill in for their pilot shortage. I mean I don't have a problem with Indonesians and all that, but to just throw in Indonesian pilots without having them licensed to fly Singaporean aircraft was something I did think was a bit strange.

Tiger Airways Falls After CEO Davis, Shareholders Sell Stock at Discount - Bloomberg

Glad that CAAS has caught on to that and are not tolerating this nonsense.

So if the Aussie Tiger pilots get transferred to SIN, who will take their place? Indonesian pilots from MANDALA AIR? =)

Passenger Departures - Changi Airport
Choose Budget Terminal
Choose 01/10/2010
Look at the number of canx TR flights!!
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Old 2nd Oct 2010, 01:45
  #655 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Asia
Posts: 1,181
Tiger are trying to get pilots from Mandela but are having difficulties with licence conversion. Most of the first batch failed Air Law and now there is a requirement to have a pass in Human Factors/Human Performance and Limitations as well. Singapore use the JAA exam and it's not easy, especially with a Level 4 English standard.

Nobody flies Singapore registered aircraft without the proper licence. CAAS quite rightly insist on a strict conversion procedure and won't rubber stamp a bunch of dodgy tickets in return for a couple of thousand dollars under the table.

Indonesian pilots flying for Tiger Australia ? They'd need CASA licences, and work permits. You'd have more chance of getting a departure off runway 16 at YSSY during peak hours when 34 is in use.
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Old 2nd Oct 2010, 01:51
  #656 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 1999
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Posts: 666
Krismiler - AMSA would have disagreed until very recently
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Old 2nd Oct 2010, 17:21
  #657 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Posts: 270
Tiger cancels 40 flights

Watch the video - I am shocked that pax who were so badly treated were not screaming for BLOOD.
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Old 6th Oct 2010, 10:09
  #658 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: London-Thailand-Australia
Age: 12
Posts: 1,057
October 06, 2010 15:05 PM A Malaysian news report.
BERNAMA - Singapore Budget Carrier Tiger Hires Pilots On Short-term Contracts
Singapore Budget Carrier Tiger Hires Pilots On Short-term Contracts

SINGAPORE, Oct 6 (Bernama) -- Singapore's budget carrier Tiger Airways
has turned to recruitment agencies in Europe to help ease a spate of
recent pilot resignations, China's Xinhua news agency quoted local media
as reporting Wednesday.

It is therefore targeting qualified A320 captains, on short- term
contracts of about six months, to ensure that flight schedules are not
disrupted, local daily The Straits Times reported.
I don't know how they see this as a short term fix without upsetting the encumbered pilots... or they may not know..
Tiger Airways, however, did not reveal how many contract pilots it would
bring in and is expected to face a potential pricky issue of pay.

An average Tiger Airways pilot receives 17,000 Singapore dollars
(US$12,985) per month, and the contract pilots are expected to get
20,000 Singapore dollars (US$15,277).
Sunglasses and white sticks required at TR HQ?
It appears to confirm the management have been flying blind.
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Old 13th Oct 2010, 00:41
  #659 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: @ CloudBase!
Age: 36
Posts: 95
EBA - Pilot Negotiations

Found this one on the net the other day, good for a laugh...

Pilot negotiations

go_soaring! instead
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Old 13th Oct 2010, 02:37
  #660 (permalink)  
Whispering "T" Jet
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Location: Melbourne.
Age: 65
Posts: 639
Tiger Airways, however, did not reveal how many contract pilots it would bring in and is expected to face a potential pricky issue of pay.
I assume one would expect this when dealing with management pricks.
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