V-australia...Tell me it isnt so?
Wizofoz is right.
IMHO the mangements of these companies will move pilots and give opportunities only if it suits their needs. Fair enough some may say.
If they offer promotion/progression it will be in the best interest of the company(s). PR will make much of what nice people they are. If progression/promotion is not forthcoming as they have conveniently omitted any structure for this, I believe they will take the attitude of, nothing in writing so we are not obligated. And they would be right in that as well!
So roll the dice boys and girls, because that's what they are hoping enough people will do.
IMHO the mangements of these companies will move pilots and give opportunities only if it suits their needs. Fair enough some may say.
If they offer promotion/progression it will be in the best interest of the company(s). PR will make much of what nice people they are. If progression/promotion is not forthcoming as they have conveniently omitted any structure for this, I believe they will take the attitude of, nothing in writing so we are not obligated. And they would be right in that as well!
So roll the dice boys and girls, because that's what they are hoping enough people will do.
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Hate to burst your bubble any prospective VA FO's but I can't see anything in the current VB EBA that remotely suggests you have a right of passage into the domestic operation.
I do see the reverse however, sorry.
I do see the reverse however, sorry.
Sprucegoose
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It's their train set Jetblues, they can do what they like!
PS: Was also told that at an inteview!
PS: Was also told that at an inteview!
Howard, you were told things by people who had made a bunch of assumptions and did not have the correct information.
Just because you were told something doesnt make it true...
Just because you were told something doesnt make it true...
Sprucegoose
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If that is true DHD, I feel very sorry for the many people I know who have taken the bait, hook, line and sinker...
I actually think it won't happen, not because some EBA says it won't, but because it will be too expensive for the parent company, as they will then have to train up two pilot's for every vacancy!
PS: I think one should be able to take what is said at an interview on face value!
I actually think it won't happen, not because some EBA says it won't, but because it will be too expensive for the parent company, as they will then have to train up two pilot's for every vacancy!
PS: I think one should be able to take what is said at an interview on face value!
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Will post this again guys.
VB EBA states,
"Nothing contained in this agreement will prevent VB from hiring people external to the business on aircraft types within its Australian domestic operations once is has complied wity clause 4.1.1."
4.1.1 states that the jobs shall advertised internally, applicants will be given relevant details on experience needed for the aircraft and base location. Internal applicants will be given priority over external applicants, PROVIDED THE INTERNAL APPLICANTS HAVE THE REQUISITE SKILLS, PERFORMANCE HISTORY AND EXPERIENCE.
Now this clause is wide open to interpretation my friend. Cruise or Line FO living in Sydney working for V Aus, no VB pilot wants a Sydney EMB command, bingo my friend, your ON! Its in the agreement and we voted for it. Hook Line and Sinker! I would not be passing up an EMB command now boys. Vb have found a vehicle to crew its EMB fleet (captain positions) with experienced overseas FO's. Cx 777 FOs who have applied to V AUS were told this is the case. Be warned!
Asked the AFAP what legal standing the 777 Deed holds. Response "absolutely none". Give them a call and ask yourself. Its just a deed with more holes than a colander.
VB EBA states,
"Nothing contained in this agreement will prevent VB from hiring people external to the business on aircraft types within its Australian domestic operations once is has complied wity clause 4.1.1."
4.1.1 states that the jobs shall advertised internally, applicants will be given relevant details on experience needed for the aircraft and base location. Internal applicants will be given priority over external applicants, PROVIDED THE INTERNAL APPLICANTS HAVE THE REQUISITE SKILLS, PERFORMANCE HISTORY AND EXPERIENCE.
Now this clause is wide open to interpretation my friend. Cruise or Line FO living in Sydney working for V Aus, no VB pilot wants a Sydney EMB command, bingo my friend, your ON! Its in the agreement and we voted for it. Hook Line and Sinker! I would not be passing up an EMB command now boys. Vb have found a vehicle to crew its EMB fleet (captain positions) with experienced overseas FO's. Cx 777 FOs who have applied to V AUS were told this is the case. Be warned!
Asked the AFAP what legal standing the 777 Deed holds. Response "absolutely none". Give them a call and ask yourself. Its just a deed with more holes than a colander.
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Jumping across fleet to gain experience to qualify for SFO status. It will be a absolute suicide for an individual and/or company. Think about the extra cost involve. Will you fork out to type on the B737, the answer is NO! not with the salary you are on. Will the company paid for it, NO don't think so! So to sum it all up if you accept the job offer you will be a career CFO for life. One other point must take into consideration here most airlines don't recogize CFO/SO flight time at all. So you are stuck with a B777 type rating with no place to go. Think gard people before you sign on the dotted line. 
Fly safe you all!
Cheeers!
Fly safe you all!
Cheeers!
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It is absolutley amazing the amount of experts on PPRUNE who have neither done the interview nor work for VB.
The real question is the mixed of jumble of new hires on an 'individual contract' and any VB pilots on an 'EBA contract'.
This is where people will get burnt.
MAX
The real question is the mixed of jumble of new hires on an 'individual contract' and any VB pilots on an 'EBA contract'.
This is where people will get burnt.
MAX
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Too True Max,
Then you will have people potentialy working at both companies on different contracts, different conditions (pay), and a wonderful and happy workplace.
Two people doing the same job yet at different pay scales. Sound familiar!
Read to fine print and listen carefuly at the interviews.
Once again, pilots are stupid, they will fall for this s%^t, no problems at all. Its a given. God I wish I was an Aviation Manager. I could play us twice as hard as they do, my bonus's would be huge! It would be like clubing baby seals.
Then you will have people potentialy working at both companies on different contracts, different conditions (pay), and a wonderful and happy workplace.
Two people doing the same job yet at different pay scales. Sound familiar!
Read to fine print and listen carefuly at the interviews.
Once again, pilots are stupid, they will fall for this s%^t, no problems at all. Its a given. God I wish I was an Aviation Manager. I could play us twice as hard as they do, my bonus's would be huge! It would be like clubing baby seals.
Live the dream fly the jet. yeah yeah we know how good it looks to you all. Just don't expect world standard renumeration...................
As they said in the Movie the 'The Battle of Britain' "you could teach a monkey to fly better than that" True, and it would only cost a Banana and a handfull of peanuts.
Simple.
As they said in the Movie the 'The Battle of Britain' "you could teach a monkey to fly better than that" True, and it would only cost a Banana and a handfull of peanuts.
Simple.
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If the cruise F/O's are starting thier courses now.....
Will they will be at the top of the seniority list with all Captains and Senior F/O's below them?
How bizarre.
MAX
Will they will be at the top of the seniority list with all Captains and Senior F/O's below them?
How bizarre.
MAX
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This was taken of the thread "Pacific Blue about to park aircraft"
Now the boot is on the other foot and its all ok and somehow different. Wake up to yourselves. Yes we at PB accepted very average t&c's initially with the promise of better things once the airline got up and running. Well four years latter we are still getting crapped on by the fools running the show.
Be warned fella's. If you hear start up pay, RUN FOR THE HILLS.
Now the boot is on the other foot and its all ok and somehow different. Wake up to yourselves. Yes we at PB accepted very average t&c's initially with the promise of better things once the airline got up and running. Well four years latter we are still getting crapped on by the fools running the show.
Be warned fella's. If you hear start up pay, RUN FOR THE HILLS.