Merged: QANTASLINK Crewing Crisis!
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Interesting post this one, some genuine feelings out there.
C H may have had a point 15 to 20 years ago, NOW get caught breaking the law (below minima, etc) outside SOPs’, and it’s out the door, not even J C would be able to help you. You will get caught, if CH doesn’t dob you in FOQA will. Maybe Chris you were one that got shown the door that’s why you are so bitter.
Yes there seem to be a crisis at QL with people leaving BUT the grass isn’t always greener on the outside, I hear some who have left are try to get back WHY???????
Coffin Corner,
Rumour has it (very strong) that QL management pilots have been in Europe looking for q400 fo’s and even did some sim check on some, they were at SAS and some other companies not sure how many pilots they looked at or companies they visited. Did you hear about it?
So under those circumstances if you meet the requirements you have a good chance of a job.
Thanks for the spelling lesson.
Last edited by Shaft135; 10th Feb 2008 at 05:58.
I hear QL management have a strong drive at the moment to hire flying instructors with 1000 hr instructing straight into first officer positions. Looking for 50 within next 3 months.
I have around those hours with instructing but still wouldn't want to apply. All because of the reduced chance of working for mainline. Would rather go to REX for a few years and get a better shot at mainline.
Last edited by Fonz121; 10th Feb 2008 at 21:45. Reason: grammar error
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Yes true, but Fonz wants to work for Qantas Mainline, not Virgin at this stage i guess.
This is why so many in GA look at Qantaslink and laugh. Why join QL with the belief that it will slow down an op with mainline??? The picture needs to be cleared up and fast.
Could not agree more.
Even F/O's in QL are being taken by Virgin in great numbers, but true, the Captains are in favour for a quick command on the EMB with VB.
In the short term that would work out financially better than the 737 if you wanted those jet hours to go to the sand pit.
The formula at QL is not working! This 'aeroclub' needs to sack the top 10 people and start over, only then things will change.
This is why so many in GA look at Qantaslink and laugh. Why join QL with the belief that it will slow down an op with mainline??? The picture needs to be cleared up and fast.
Good thinking Fonz. You should maintain that thought until the penny finally drops with the 'knucleheads at the top.
Even F/O's in QL are being taken by Virgin in great numbers, but true, the Captains are in favour for a quick command on the EMB with VB.
In the short term that would work out financially better than the 737 if you wanted those jet hours to go to the sand pit.
The formula at QL is not working! This 'aeroclub' needs to sack the top 10 people and start over, only then things will change.
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Why is there still this attitude that QL pilots don't go into mainline??? QL pilots apply for QF in exactly the same way as anyone else. Several people have left in the last few months to become QF SOs.
Just because time at QL doesn't automatically entitle you to a QF slot, doesn't mean it's a bad choice as a regional. Although I completely agree that T&Cs could be better, and that management need serious surgery to remove heads from a#%es, I still think QL is one of the best regional airlines in the country. In those terms, it doesn't seem to be any worse than the options, and at least you've got a shot at flying something like a Q400 (you won't find many props around that will prepare you better for a jet cockpit).
If you make the grade in your QF selection, the QL time in your log book is not going to make you any better or worse off than Saab, Braz or Metro time.
I certainly can't see why you would hold out for Rex at the moment, and the horror tales I hear from mates at some of the other regionals really do make you wonder.
Just because time at QL doesn't automatically entitle you to a QF slot, doesn't mean it's a bad choice as a regional. Although I completely agree that T&Cs could be better, and that management need serious surgery to remove heads from a#%es, I still think QL is one of the best regional airlines in the country. In those terms, it doesn't seem to be any worse than the options, and at least you've got a shot at flying something like a Q400 (you won't find many props around that will prepare you better for a jet cockpit).
If you make the grade in your QF selection, the QL time in your log book is not going to make you any better or worse off than Saab, Braz or Metro time.
I certainly can't see why you would hold out for Rex at the moment, and the horror tales I hear from mates at some of the other regionals really do make you wonder.
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'aeroclub'
Would be hard now to join QL (not impossible though as over this place) after reading all these threads, to give up a healthy current market salary (a t/prop company that has seen the light, recently, and wants to keep us!!), work with demoralised crew and get flogged at work.. Why would someone want to join and stay now?
VB look favourably at dash captains in their recruitment drive.
Take the pay cut and pain for the short term 
A pity - it used to be a sought after job..If only they improved the T&Cs then this (and the Rex) thread would be over.. So many more hats would be thrown in to the 'yes I would like that job and would stay' ring. Until then, 'skipping' we will go to Virgin
Surely management read these posts - or are their heads buried so far into the sand
Last edited by Cloud Whisperer; 11th Feb 2008 at 04:21. Reason: Too much colour
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Going Boeing,
I am interested in your comment in an earlier post...
I applied two years ago with the minimum requirements, got a no, ok fair enough, not much hiring back then. Hadn't flown for family reasons after that, then last year saw lots of threads about rapid expansion etc, and sent in an update. Got another no letter, saying they didn't expect I would be competitive in the foreseeable future (or words to the effect!). Now I'm well educated, perhaps a little on the older side of the ledger (late 30s so maybe that didn't help), but I was surprised I still didn't even progress to Stage 2. So, are they really that short of pilots??
I am interested in your comment in an earlier post...
Qantas mainline is screaming for pilots and will take every one who meets the minimum standards
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Grrowler,
A handful of ex-capts allegedly have been contacted (Guys you possibly didn't know). It's unknown what the result was. Regardless, they were (still are) great blokes and well regarded by both their colleagues and management.
Icarus53: While your statement is correct, it is actually more difficult to go across via the MOU. That's because in addition to meeting the external entry criteria:
1. You must provide 2 years of high standard FT-9's (not difficult), and
2. The company has to 'release' you. I have doubts about any Capt's getting a 'release' in the current climate. (Might be the reason why none have gone over from EAA??? Some have applied but missed out. Coincidence, I'm sure). All recent successful applicants have been FO's, and most of them haven't been with us long enough to go via the MOU.
FP_ACE, I think the instructors will find that they may be involved in the pending traineeship program to some extent. Not a bad idea, actually. It's an effective way to instil and control standards at an early point in an employee's career.
Quite a few blokes I've "spoken with" recently expressed an interest in doing both regional flying and instruction. Good-o I say.
Regardless of what choices you make, you will certainly enjoy the flying and the people you work with while you are here.
A handful of ex-capts allegedly have been contacted (Guys you possibly didn't know). It's unknown what the result was. Regardless, they were (still are) great blokes and well regarded by both their colleagues and management.
Icarus53: While your statement is correct, it is actually more difficult to go across via the MOU. That's because in addition to meeting the external entry criteria:
1. You must provide 2 years of high standard FT-9's (not difficult), and
2. The company has to 'release' you. I have doubts about any Capt's getting a 'release' in the current climate. (Might be the reason why none have gone over from EAA??? Some have applied but missed out. Coincidence, I'm sure
). All recent successful applicants have been FO's, and most of them haven't been with us long enough to go via the MOU.FP_ACE, I think the instructors will find that they may be involved in the pending traineeship program to some extent. Not a bad idea, actually. It's an effective way to instil and control standards at an early point in an employee's career.
Quite a few blokes I've "spoken with" recently expressed an interest in doing both regional flying and instruction. Good-o I say.
Regardless of what choices you make, you will certainly enjoy the flying and the people you work with while you are here.
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Boundary Layer
Your letter reminded me of the reply I got from QL some 3 years ago, along with a verbal (from HR) 'we have hundreds/thousands of applications so . . . . . . . . ' Oh well onwards and upwards - the world has not ended.
Maybe it is this ingrained 'we will prevail and succeed/overcome' mentality of those in HR. . .
Like what is happening to QL (and others), give them a few more years and then . . . . . . ?
I have been puzzling on this possible age issue... There is the greater maturity, more rounded experience (and not just with flying), probably received further education through work, and so more likely to stand up for yourself and become a thorn in their side with regards future T&C issues.
Oh well onwards and upwards - the world has not ended.Maybe it is this ingrained 'we will prevail and succeed/overcome' mentality of those in HR. . .
Like what is happening to QL (and others), give them a few more years and then . . . . . . ?
I have been puzzling on this possible age issue... There is the greater maturity, more rounded experience (and not just with flying), probably received further education through work, and so more likely to stand up for yourself and become a thorn in their side with regards future T&C issues.
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Icarus53: While your statement is correct, it is actually more difficult to go across via the MOU.
I accept your point regarding the MOU. Although I am not completely across all the issues relating to it, I understand it involves a waiver of certain recruitment criteria for pilots with requisite length of service at QL.
That said, you are still entitled to apply under normal direct entry criteria. While conspiracy theorists abound saying that QF would not "rob Peter to pay Paul" by recruiting QL pilots, I don't consider this to be reasonable. Consequently, if you are outside QL at the moment, there is no reason to believe that taking a job will in any way negatively impact upon a future QF application.
To the subject of progression - a hot topic amongst QL pilots at present. I'll go out on a limb and state that I don't think the concept of progression to mainline will make any real difference to attrition rates as they exist.
Although I do believe in the concept of a GOL, I can't see any way to construct one in a way that works for both QF and QL (as well as for the pilots). On top of that, given the limited timeframe new hires are remaining with the company before being recruited by VB, JS and occasionally QF, there doesn't seem to be much enticement to stick around just to get a bid for a job you can have right now. I grant you that for many low-mid seniority CAPTs, progression into QF would be worth putting their E-Jet application on hold, however QL still end up losing them without much coming in the bottom end.
As always, I'm willing to hear constructive criticism of my view on the matter, but I'm sure there will be some measure of indiscriminate fire in my direction!
Icarus
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Quite a few QL FO's have moved onto mainline in the last few months and more will do so by the look of it. Its not an official progression but I think management has realised that its better if the staff move on within the group. If mainline does not take then VB will, and the management know this.
Its a long way from a GOL and progression but its good to see some guys/gals moving on.
I am working about half of my reserve days and still enjoy the life that so many on here say has left QL. Sure there are a few busy periods but I think its still a great life style, flying a fun acft, to good ports.
Bulla
Its a long way from a GOL and progression but its good to see some guys/gals moving on.
I am working about half of my reserve days and still enjoy the life that so many on here say has left QL. Sure there are a few busy periods but I think its still a great life style, flying a fun acft, to good ports.
Bulla
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Icarus wrote
Having gone out on that limb, do you also believe that a significant (and I mean significant) payrise for QFlink pilots would also have little effect in attracting and retaining talented and experienced pilots?
One particular executive at QF is paid $128,846.16 every fortnight after tax.
That seems like a lot. The reason? "To attract talent you need to offer competitive renumeration."
Lead by example...
I'll go out on a limb and state that I don't think the concept of progression to mainline will make any real difference to attrition rates as they exist.
One particular executive at QF is paid $128,846.16 every fortnight after tax.
That seems like a lot. The reason? "To attract talent you need to offer competitive renumeration."
Lead by example...
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For the bargain basement price of $100,000/year indexed to CPI, they can have a 7,000HR+ ATPL pilot who will sign anything they like not to leave...........oh, and a Tamworth basing.
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Bullamakanka,
If you read my post you will note that most of those people were not eligible for the MOU and therefore applied externally (i.e "off the street"). Therefore QL management has little control over "releasing" them. Pay for training has effectively released them from an obligation to remain loyal.
Hence the situation we see today. The greedy sins of 2004 have bitten us on the arse. Not that nobody was warned.....
The problem Qantaslink faces is not a shortage of FO's, but retaining experienced Captains, particularly when the FO's coming in hold absolutely minimum experience and are not upgradeable.
To date, the company has offered a retention payment, to its credit. However, the Captains that are looking at leaving are there for the lifestyle, not the money. The latest EBA torpedoed lifestyle. It just went too far. Hence the high number of Captains throwing their hands up and just looking at walking away. Guys with >12 years service - (the ones that really need to be retained in order to pass on their experience, either in a training or mentoring role). They see the prospect of 11/12 days off a month as more favourable than the 6 paired and 2 split days agreed to in the latest EBA. Particularly the family blokes.
Added to that is the potential to move on with a couple of promotions during a career with VB.
For all this, QF would rather throw these experienced people to the wind (and it's competitors), rather than offer its employees a decent career path right through to retirement.
Wynsock, I reckon the big bucks is a step in the right direction, but in itself will only benefit the people that weren't going to leave anyway. And it does not address the FO's close to upgrade who should be looked after as well.
As I mentioned in other posts, in a situation like this with a diminishing supply, you need to cast a wide net and address all the reasons people are leaving. Money is just one aspect.
If you read my post you will note that most of those people were not eligible for the MOU and therefore applied externally (i.e "off the street"). Therefore QL management has little control over "releasing" them. Pay for training has effectively released them from an obligation to remain loyal.
Hence the situation we see today. The greedy sins of 2004 have bitten us on the arse. Not that nobody was warned.....
The problem Qantaslink faces is not a shortage of FO's, but retaining experienced Captains, particularly when the FO's coming in hold absolutely minimum experience and are not upgradeable.
To date, the company has offered a retention payment, to its credit. However, the Captains that are looking at leaving are there for the lifestyle, not the money. The latest EBA torpedoed lifestyle. It just went too far. Hence the high number of Captains throwing their hands up and just looking at walking away. Guys with >12 years service - (the ones that really need to be retained in order to pass on their experience, either in a training or mentoring role). They see the prospect of 11/12 days off a month as more favourable than the 6 paired and 2 split days agreed to in the latest EBA. Particularly the family blokes.
Added to that is the potential to move on with a couple of promotions during a career with VB.
For all this, QF would rather throw these experienced people to the wind (and it's competitors), rather than offer its employees a decent career path right through to retirement.
Wynsock, I reckon the big bucks is a step in the right direction, but in itself will only benefit the people that weren't going to leave anyway. And it does not address the FO's close to upgrade who should be looked after as well.
As I mentioned in other posts, in a situation like this with a diminishing supply, you need to cast a wide net and address all the reasons people are leaving. Money is just one aspect.