Merged: QANTASLINK Crewing Crisis!

[grumpy greyhound]

So how much will a contract springbok capt/fo be paid and what will be the length of contract be?
I was told last week that crewing numbers would be back uptowhat is required and all cancelled flights reinstated by Jun 1. My ques. was which year,still waiting for an answer. GG.

[Kangaroo Court]

1. Let's just figure out a way to solve this problem and stop the bit=ching. What would it take to stay at Eastern or Sunstate? Who would you like to see you through the rising oil prices and uncertain economy, (management team...or at least management style if the mod's won't allow names)? How long would you stay under said conditions?

2. If Eastern or Sunstate were to get the 717s from National Jet and you were to upgrade to captain in seniority, would you stay?

3. How much to fly a 717 (and stay)?

4. What time would you allow yourself to be upgraded to a 717 if such an offer were made?

5.Would you sign a bond?

6. Do you enjoy flying for the QF group?

7. Do you think a flow-through agreement to QF mainline is imperative to your growth in QLink?

8. Would you leave anyway?


Just curious...what would it take?

[J0N0]

1. Let's just figure out a way to solve this problem and stop the bit=ching. What would it take to stay at Eastern or Sunstate? Who would you like to see you through the rising oil prices and uncertain economy, (management team...or at least management style if the mod's won't allow names)? How long would you stay under said conditions?

I am sure we ALL have our own (best) way to run a company. I cant see the current management getting a restructure so they could help all the employees out with some transparency, good communication to the troops and when making a promise sticking to it or not making it in the first place!!
2. If Eastern or Sunstate were to get the 717s from National Jet and you were to upgrade to captain in seniority, would you stay?

Yes and I think this would help, of course the younger guys would still wanna go fly a Dreamliner but the older guys who still want a jet.......reckon this would make a lot of them happy enough....

3. How much to fly a 717 (and stay)?

Hmmm tough one but bias it down from say the 737 QF pay scale on its size rather than up from the Dash 8 pay scale.

4. What time would you allow yourself to be upgraded to a 717 if such an offer were made?

I think if it was in place and there was an actual seniority list linking to the 717 the people could judge for themselves, some will of course go but like I said above the older guys and those wanting the regional llifestyle would stick it out knowing it was coming!

5.Would you sign a bond?

Yes. As much as managment may be unpopular they DO have to keep the company running and to upgrade people onto a jet (or any aircraft) in the current climate of mass progression a bond is reasonable.

6. Do you enjoy flying for the QF group?

Yes and despite some shocking mismanagment there are some people who actually still do like the job and dont want to leave for DJ or J*

7. Do you think a flow-through agreement to QF mainline is imperative to your growth in QLink?

As the Manager Flying opps made reference to himself if they could offer progression into Mainline they would sort out a major part of the staffing problems AND give Virgin a harder time in the process.

8. Would you leave anyway?

I dont WANT leave now, see how things go I guess..........

[Hugh Jarse]

Kangaroo Court and JONO,

If you guys care to look back a few pages you will see that both Pilot Councils put comprehensive proposals to the company embracing all the items you suggested (and many more) on several occasions, only to have them unilaterally rejected.

A previous Eastern Pilot Council went to the company around 4 years ago warning of a pilot shortage. You can guess how far that got...... Where they are today.

So why are people leaving? I'll state it again:

1. Lifestyle;
2. Remuneration;
3. A career path - no matter what anyone tells you at the roadshows, there currently is NOT a career path beyond flying a turboprop in Qantaslink.
4. To fly a jet.

Why did I leave after more than 10 years service? 1, 3 and 2 (in that order).

I never received an exit interview to tell them that, though

[Jet_A_Knight]

JARSIE!

You didn't mention the bit about how after all your good years of service, you didn't get a gold watch - only this (fake) gold medallion.

[Keith Myath]

What would it take to stay??

To answer that question all you have to do is look to the past. In recent history there was a small Qantaslink turboprop operator that also operated Jets (well 146's!!). Attrition was incredibly low - anyone remember that company - and who was responsible for its demise.

[Tassie Devil]

I do ! And its a Shame !

[WynSock]

Incredible times for us at the moment. Hardly surprising when you look at the lack of plans put in place to deal with the pilot shortage. Don't be too hard on all the Gen-whatevers. We are at this point now as a result of greed, mismanagement and being nothing less than exploited for too long.

I too would have jumped at the chance of a Qflink job when the ink on my commercial was still drying. The best thing around for me back then was a tight-arsed GA company. I swept the hangar and made a few mistakes along the way, in small, slow, piston singles/twins with 0-12 pax. No accidents but a few frights.

• Got lost in the dark without a NVFR rating
• left that fuel cap off
• got stuck on top of overcast without a CIR
• flew through a CB
• got pinned under a lowering 200ft ceiling in drizzle
• got bogged
• had two engine failures
• got badly iced up
• got a bit low on fuel
• landed with a surprise 15kt tailwind
• generally scared myself sh1tless

So Qlink is the new tight-arsed GA company with a red rat on the tail.
The only difference is that the Q400 isn't what I would call slow or small. It takes 72.

[2p!ssed2drive]

Wynsock. Loved your post... I too have been involved in -

left that fuel cap off
got stuck on top of overcast without a CIR
flew through a CB
got pinned under a lowering 200ft ceiling in drizzle
got bogged
had (partial) engine failures
got a bit (VERY) low on fuel
landed with a surprise 15kt tailwind
generally scared myself sh1tless

And while these are good learning lessons... and I wouldn't change anything if I had my time again... I would also make a point that other operators around the world have put 250hr co-pilots on Dash-8's for a very long time. Who also become successful captains. So maybe they could run a successful (safe) operation doing this? I dunno. I'm just putting it out there...

nothing less than exploited for too long.

Are Qlink pilots still being exploited? Will it get any better? have we seen the worst of the pilot shortage? Is it getting better? Is it getting worse?


So many questions

[J0N0]

Ahh yeah Hugh............ was never disputing the fact, I took Kangaroo's post to be getting some specific responses more so than highlighting something thats never been thought of before..............
Certainly I agree these concepts are not new!!!

[Cloud Whisperer]

Wynsock have to agree with 2P2D. Well said. Loved it.

The memories of the good old days bring a tear to the eye. The trips to the pub to get the dirt out of the throat, to calm the hand shakes - it was very bad form to spill the drink Great flightdeck conversation starters.

Hang on I'm still in GA but the beast is quicker now So is it an easy two step sideways to "GA" Qlink now.

I too have lots of questions

Like why is this situation what it is now??

Wynsock

We are at this point now as a result of greed,

Is this including pilots? After all it does take two to tango; greedy companies and greedy, ambitious pilots.

[grrowler]

CW, you're right, it does take two to tango when it comes to greed. It takes one group to be greedy and another to need jobs.

Now that not as many pilots need to accept the job (greedy? read the thread on housing affordability in Sydney), management are left dancing with their pants down. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of guys.

[Hugh Jarse]

JARSIE!

You didn't mention the bit about how after all your good years of service, you didn't get a gold watch - only this (fake) gold medallion.

HARRUMPHHH!!!!

Why are people so unkind? (Kamahl voice)

They must have known J.A.K.

Grrrowler, are you a father yet?

Attrition was incredibly low - anyone remember that company - and who was responsible for its demise.

Yes - 3 words: Executive General Manager.

[KABOY]

The unfortunate thing is that his then 2IC became the fall guy!

Reminds me of the joke about an Indian and a rattlesnake.

[PPRuNeUser0161]

I have over 6000TT and 4000TT IC of turbo-prop multi. If Qlink or REX make a way for me to come in with no loss of salary they'll have my resume real quick. Thats all they have to do to solve the problem in the short term. I don't care if its a command or FO position, its all about standard of living!

[KRUSTY 34]

What would it take Soup Nazi?

Genuine question.

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Yeah G'day K34
I get get around mid 70's at the moment so I guess thats what id'e be looking at. Market forces are definitely putting a lot of pressure on my employer to increase wages present to remain competitive and they're not alone.

I think that what is needed is recognition of experience in addition to categorising pilots as FO's and Captains. In other words whilst my experience is not specifically relevant to RPT ops I do consider that I have more to offer than a first year cadet (no offence to first year cadets, you must start somewhere) and the reality is that I have a family to support and I am no longer 25 years old.

If REX and Qlink can overcome this issue then I think it would open up a new pool of applicants that currently could not consider comming over due to loss of income.

I also think that the pay scales for pilots generally are under what they should be, probably by around 25 to 35%, market forces are the only thing that will bring them up but be patient for this.

[crank1000]

Mid 70's

Soup Nazi,

If you did pursue QLink for employment, I believe FO's who did a a fair chunk of overtime will be on around mid 60's? Please someone let me know if this isn't true anyone.

Do you work to the duty limit in your current job? When you say it's a lifestyle thing I assume you mean you don't slave your guts out and get mid 70's? I can see how having it cushy and getting that beats working your knackers off for 10k less but wouldn't QLink be a more secure option job security wise? I'm also assuming that you live in an area where cost of living isn't ridiculous?

I think that QL aren't going to play with DEC's and wage increases because as soon as one lot get more everyone want's more and it just snowballs. QL aren't in trouble yet and it will be a while before they are so I wouldn't hold my breath for things to change.

Lastly on the recognition of experience, corporate managers don't know what it is and aren't willing to learn.

[DeafStar]

A few corrections for you Crank1000

A Qlink Dash Fo gets average 55k base wage. Maybe another 8k in allowances per year. And you will get flogged! Max hours with every overnight minimum rest. QLink ARE in serious trouble with many flights cancelled and some even farmed to other operators.

Sunstate are about to go into EBA negotiations and from all accounts if the company arent going to wake up and give something other than the bull$**** 3% you will see the boys and girls go the way of the engineers with PIA and stop works.

All the pilots are absolutely fed up with the current draconian management of NK and his cronies. Sick leave is through the roof and so is the attrition. Sure they are trying to plug the arterial bleeding with hundreds of 200hr pilots but is this strategy a long term fix or a short term bonus padding option? 2 more years you have no pilots with command time to upgrade. They better hope the ICUS thing works for them.

Or so the TSV refueler tells me.

[OpsNormal]

On crank 1000's final line of his/her post..... Then there is the stupidity of requiring an HSC (or at least QL's definition of an equivalent). Some of us left school well over twenty years ago and are still good enough to flog a similar (if not better performing and/or larger) regional turboprop around for a living, yet are not adequately educated enough to join QL even though we've (in many cases) sought out quite extensive further learning and training and in many instances have had quite successful businesses they built up and then sold to finance our flying.

Instead, we are sent the following calibre of correspondence (my bolding):

Dear OpsNormal,

In a recent evaluation of your QL First Officer application it was noted tha you have not attained a HSC or equivilant. You need this before your application can progress. Can you please clarifiy this situation.

Regards,

************

That in direct contrast to being told differently by a certain BG before he moved on a while ago now. The pot is certainly not calling the kettle black (my spelling and syntax is in no way perfect either), but in certain circumstances there may well be the odd demonstrated shortcoming in their recruitment practices that may continue to cause them grief.

I am happy enough where I am anyway but like everywhere - the current $$ could be better.