NAT JET 717 mishap
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Bollox
SidB has made the only sensible post here, it could happen to you all, just wait, it'll come to you one day. Don't take the piss because the more you do, the sooner it'll happen to you!!!!!!!!!!
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If there are lessons to be learned from this, then it will benefit all of us.
I am of the opinion that the apparent upslope of that runway presents quite a significant optical illusion at night.
Anybody else experienced that?
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APMR
Yes, I might have been caught by that lip, during the day it was 
Their landing would have been at night and I assume they landed on Rwy 29 (due prevailing monsoonal conditions).
I am of the opinion that the apparent upslope of that runway presents quite a significant optical illusion at night.
Anybody else experienced that?
I am of the opinion that the apparent upslope of that runway presents quite a significant optical illusion at night.
Anybody else experienced that?
Darwin heavy landing won't spoil perfect record (The Australian)
Steve Creedy | February 15, 2008
DUSTIN Hoffman's Rain Man can rest easy: Qantas will not have to write off a Boeing 717 involved in a heavy landing in Darwin last week.
The Qantaslink aircraft carrying 84 passengers from Gove was substantially damaged after it hit an area of "high sink" and dropped heavily on approach to Darwin on Thursday last week.
The heavy landing produced wrinkling in the aircraft's skin at the rear of the fuselage, suggesting possible damage to the airframe and prompting speculation that the plane was a write-off.
Although the leased aircraft was operated for Qantaslink by National Jet Systems, a write-off would have seen the first recorded jet airliner hull loss under Qantas colours.
A Qantas spokesman said last night the plane would not be written off, although estimates of the cost of repairs were still being done.
The Australian Transport Safety Bureau and Civil Aviation Safety Authority have launched investigations into the accident.
CASA spokesman Peter Gibson said the authority was looking at the circumstances behind the landing.
He said there was no indication of anything untoward but said CASA wanted to get a handle on any issues in the shorter term rather than waiting for the ATSB report.
The last recorded Qantas hull loss was in 1960, when a propeller-powered Lockheed Super Constellation carrying 50 passengers and crew was destroyed by a fire after it ran off a runway in Mauritius. The aircraft's No3 engine lost power just before take-off, prompting the captain to abort.
Despite attempts by the crew to stop the plane, it did not decelerate as expected and it was still doing 40 knots when it left the runway.
It bounced over a low embankment, crashed into a gully and caught fire.
The passengers and crew escaped from the burning plane unharmed except for a woman who broke her ankle as she fell from the cabin door.
DUSTIN Hoffman's Rain Man can rest easy: Qantas will not have to write off a Boeing 717 involved in a heavy landing in Darwin last week.
The Qantaslink aircraft carrying 84 passengers from Gove was substantially damaged after it hit an area of "high sink" and dropped heavily on approach to Darwin on Thursday last week.
The heavy landing produced wrinkling in the aircraft's skin at the rear of the fuselage, suggesting possible damage to the airframe and prompting speculation that the plane was a write-off.
Although the leased aircraft was operated for Qantaslink by National Jet Systems, a write-off would have seen the first recorded jet airliner hull loss under Qantas colours.
A Qantas spokesman said last night the plane would not be written off, although estimates of the cost of repairs were still being done.
The Australian Transport Safety Bureau and Civil Aviation Safety Authority have launched investigations into the accident.
CASA spokesman Peter Gibson said the authority was looking at the circumstances behind the landing.
He said there was no indication of anything untoward but said CASA wanted to get a handle on any issues in the shorter term rather than waiting for the ATSB report.
The last recorded Qantas hull loss was in 1960, when a propeller-powered Lockheed Super Constellation carrying 50 passengers and crew was destroyed by a fire after it ran off a runway in Mauritius. The aircraft's No3 engine lost power just before take-off, prompting the captain to abort.
Despite attempts by the crew to stop the plane, it did not decelerate as expected and it was still doing 40 knots when it left the runway.
It bounced over a low embankment, crashed into a gully and caught fire.
The passengers and crew escaped from the burning plane unharmed except for a woman who broke her ankle as she fell from the cabin door.
Need To Speed
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I am of the opinion that the apparent upslope of that runway presents quite a significant optical illusion at night.
Anybody else experienced that?
Anybody else experienced that?
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There's no consistency across the Qantas group. Mainline is subject to auditing. Mainline wanted to audit Jetstar but Jetstar management refused. Mainline audited the Dash 8 operation but did they audit National Jet? But the weirdest part is that Qantas mainline drivers are so thick that they require months of training for a command but Jetstar pilots are aces who require only several weeks. Not having a go at anyone just the inconsistent system that is set in place.
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Qantas mainline take longer, because there is NO training. Training department renamed themselves from checking department to make them seem like they are capable of training.
There is NO training in mainline (did i just say that twice now?) THe majority of Checkers in the "Training" department are incapable of training. Its do it yourself training. For some reason the section attracts the wrong people with the worng reasons to the job.
There is NO training in mainline (did i just say that twice now?) THe majority of Checkers in the "Training" department are incapable of training. Its do it yourself training. For some reason the section attracts the wrong people with the worng reasons to the job.
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Flight Standards / Checking Department, to Line Pilot.................
Are you interested in a C&T position?
LP... Uummm, not reeaallyyy, I don't consider I have sufficient experience on the aircraft yet.
It's a 10% pay rise..........
LP... I'll do it
Role on.......
Are you interested in a C&T position?
LP... Uummm, not reeaallyyy, I don't consider I have sufficient experience on the aircraft yet.
It's a 10% pay rise..........
LP... I'll do it
Role on.......
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Alien. from memory its 8% 
However you make a good point.
CASA/QF/NJS will do nothing or next to nothing about this and we will wait for the next
up.
NJS had more FA injuries ( landing induced ) from that A/C than Impulse/Jetstar ever did, and never did a damn thing about it, its just a pity the CIA will once again walk away scott free, maybe we should change their name from CIA to Teflon.
However you make a good point.
CASA/QF/NJS will do nothing or next to nothing about this and we will wait for the next
up.NJS had more FA injuries ( landing induced ) from that A/C than Impulse/Jetstar ever did, and never did a damn thing about it, its just a pity the CIA will once again walk away scott free, maybe we should change their name from CIA to Teflon.
Cunning,
that may be true, how ever the FOQA records indicate that NJS has alot less heavy landings than Jetstar did have, and less than QF do have.
This was looked into due to the complaints.
The NJS F/A's, Pilots and passengers were used to the 146 and as you know there is a considerable difference between a bad landing in a 146 and a good landing in a 717 comfort wise.
Don't get me wrong I am not excusing the CIA, but I have looked at the FOQA results myself.
that may be true, how ever the FOQA records indicate that NJS has alot less heavy landings than Jetstar did have, and less than QF do have.
This was looked into due to the complaints.
The NJS F/A's, Pilots and passengers were used to the 146 and as you know there is a considerable difference between a bad landing in a 146 and a good landing in a 717 comfort wise.
Don't get me wrong I am not excusing the CIA, but I have looked at the FOQA results myself.
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Remember a C&T pilot is no different/better than any line pilot, 'cause just prior to such a person taking up such a position that's exactly what they where ! Money is everything, dangle a big enough carrot in front of any pilot & most will say it's 'black when it's actually white' !!
Don't fool yourselves. We have all seen so called C&T's who are less than those they are supposed to be checking!
F
Don't fool yourselves. We have all seen so called C&T's who are less than those they are supposed to be checking!
F
Lack of instructional skills by Check and training pilots Australia wide is becoming increasingly evident.
If you look at NJS as an example, not one Senior Captain from any base is in Training. (not commenting on checking, that is a completely different role) Very few if any training pilots have "instructional" experience.
Almost none of the current training pilots have previous "training” experience.
The majority are, or where when they started training, brand new Captains themselves.
Surely you would have to ask why, when there are so many experienced and senior pilots available.
Are the experience pilots considered that bad? Or is their a head problem in the CIA?
ah Renuupp... you neglected to mention that two of your "senior" Captains withdrew from training at CNS and two from Perth were asked but declined the offer. Nothing to do with the "Yes Sir" mentality but no desire to train any more.
86,
You are correct, they did decline.
I don't believe they have "no desire to train anymore", that is rubbish, they may (probably)have an interest in training again if there were some changes at the top.
I think you may find they resigned out of frustration with the current shambles. 86 Email me if you don't have this info.
In fact I know at least two of them did.
Fix the shambles and they would be back.
You are correct, they did decline.
I don't believe they have "no desire to train anymore", that is rubbish, they may (probably)have an interest in training again if there were some changes at the top.
I think you may find they resigned out of frustration with the current shambles. 86 Email me if you don't have this info.
In fact I know at least two of them did.
Fix the shambles and they would be back.
Last edited by RENURPP; 17th Feb 2008 at 00:18.
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I saw on the news the aircraft owner, Allco Leasing is in a spot of bother at the moment (credit crunch). Does anyone think this may influence the fate of the aircraft ?
