Latest Qf Incident,where Will All This End

[Taildragger67]

Galley Raider,

You're famous!

[Galley Raider]

What can I say........? I was pretty close too. I'm sure more info will come out soon.

Again, Bravo to the crew. You are worth the money.

As soon as this fked up current QF management figure out that it is the PEOPLE, like pilots, engineers and hosties who make the airline great, the better.

Sure, self preservation may be a good motivator. But so is dignity,worth and respect.

Eat my shorts. Dik$on, Cock$, Harri$ and Co.

[NSEU]

"Can any of the Engineers in the room let me know what is left when operating on the Standby power? Obviously the Standby Flight Instruments. Is that it?"

Lots! (including straight battery powered stuff) Here's a list I prepared earlier...

_115VAC STANDBY BUS-MAIN_
ADC LEFT POWER (34-12-01)
NAV RADIO RMI (Optional)
NAV RADIO MKR VOR LEFT (34-51-01)
NAV RADIO ADF RIGHT (can also be found on 115AC Bus #1 on some airlines)
NAV RADIO ATC LEFT (34-53-01) Optionally found on 115VAC Main Bus #3
STANDBY IGN ENG 1 (74-31-01)
STANDBY IGN ENG 2 (74-31-02)
STANDBY INSTR LIGHTS (33-11-04)
FLIGHT CONTROL ELEC 1L AC (Also known as FCE Power Supply or PSM. One of four. See Notes)
NAV RADIO MLS-L (Optional)
EFIS CONT LEFT (31-61-01)
UPPER EICAS (31-61-01)
EIU LEFT (31-61-01)
FLIGHT CONTROL ELEC 2L AC (Also known as FCE Power Supply or PSM. One of four. See Notes)
MAWEA POWER A (31-51-01) Modularized Avionics Warning Electronics Assembly power supply A.
FMCS CDU-LEFT (34-61-01)
MAIN AC STBY BUS VOLTAGE (24-34-02)
STANDBY IGN ENG 3 (74-31-03)
STANDBY IGN ENG 4 (74-31-04)
MMR LEFT (MULTI MODE RECEIVER) 34-31-01

_115VAC STANDBY BUS- APU_
PFD-LEFT
ND-LEFT
FMCS FMC-LEFT

_28VDC APU BATTERY BUS_ (Normally supplied with DC power from TRU #3 unless forced to use APU Battery Charger or APU Battery)
ENG START AIR CONT (Provides elec power to Start Switches and Pneumatic Start Valve solenoids. Valves are electrically controlled, but pneumatically driven... They won't open without bleed air). Power for light in Start Switches comes from the #1 DC Bus.
APU DC FUEL PUMP (Required if #2 AFT MAIN BOOST PUMP is not providing pressure. APU switch must be in ON or START and the following CB's must be set: APU PRIME CONTROL (or APU ALT CTRL) and APU START)
APU FIRE WARN HORN (Horn located in RH Body Gear Well)
NACELLE LE ANTI-ICE 1 (30-21-01) Also known as NAI. Provides power to VALVE solenoid). Auto Anti-Ice Systems appear to use Main Bus power however
NACELLE LE ANTI-ICE 2
NACELLE LE ANTI-ICE 3
NACELLE LE ANTI-ICE 4
LOOP A FIRE 1 OVERHEAT 2
LOOP A FIRE 2 OVERHEAT 1
LOOP B FIRE 1 OVERHEAT 2
LOOP B FIRE 2 OVERHEAT 1
LOOP A FIRE 3 OVERHEAT 4
LOOP A FIRE 4 OVERHEAT 3
LOOP A FIRE 3 OVERHEAT 4
LOOP A FIRE 4 OVERHEAT 3
FIRE DET APU LOOP A
FIRE DET APU LOOP B
ENG 1 SPEED SENSOR 1 (77-12-05) Provides power to engine #1 "N2 speed card" Channel 1. N2 > 50%, N2 > 52%, N2>83% data is used for airplane system logic.)
ENG 1 SPEED SENSOR 2 (As above, Channel 2))
ENG 2 SPEED SENSOR 1
ENG 2 SPEED SENSOR 2
ENG 3 SPEED SENSOR 1
ENG 3 SPEED SENSOR 2
ENG 4 SPEED SENSOR 1
ENG 4 SPEED SENSOR 2
EEC CH A RESET/INHIBIT 1 (73-21-15) EEC Hardware reset
EEC CH A RESET/INHIBIT 2
EEC CH A RESET/INHIBIT 3
EEC CH A RESET/INHIBIT 4
CLOCK DISPLAY (Clock digits on Capt's and F/O's Chronometer)


_APU HOT BATTERY BUS_
LEFT OUTFLOW VALVE (Left Pressurization Outflow Valve MANual Power)
RIGHT OUTFLOW VALVE (Right Pressurization Outflow Valve MANual Power)
INLET DOOR (APU)
ANTI ICE VALVE (APU option.)
APU PRIMARY CONT (49-11-01) One of two power sources for APU Controller.
LEFT IRU (DC)
RIGHT IRU (DC)
CENTRE IRU (DC) Times out after 5 minutes if aircraft on battery power only


_28VDC MAIN BATTERY BUS_
HYDRAULICS EDP SUPPLY 1 (29-11-01) Provides power to a motor driven shutoff valve which closes when the respective engine Fire Handle is pulled, stopping hydraulic fluid getting to the engine driven hydraulic pump. Resetting the Fire Handle with Main Battery Bus power available will re-open the shutoff valve. This valve is not opened/closed during normal operations.
HYDRAULICS EDP SUPPLY 2 (as above for EDP/Engine #2)
HYDRAULICS EDP SUPPLY 3
HYDRAULICS EDP SUPPLY 4
OXYGEN VALVE AND INDICATOR (35-11-01) Provides power to pax and crew oxygen bottle pressure transducers to enable EICAS oxygen pressure displays. Also provides power to manual pax oxygen system activation system (Emergency & Theraputic). This CB & the OXY RESET CB is required to reset the Emergency oxygen system after use.
OXYGEN RESET (see above)
STBY ALTIMETER VIB (34-13-01) Vibrator to prevent stiction in Stby Altimeter. Indicator may not move as smoothly without this power, but should not stop it working completely. Not required on aircraft with ISFD-type indicators.
VHF LEFT (23-12-01) Provides power to Left VHF Transceiver and Left Radio Control Panel (VHF/HF control head)
CAPT INTERPHONE Provides power to cockpit speaker, captain's interphone circuits in Audio Management Unit and Captain's audio selector panel.
STBY ATTITUDE INDICATOR (34-24-01) Provides power to gyro and gyro flag (removal when gyro OK), but not ILS information.
STANDBY ILS INDICATOR (23-24-01) Provides power to the ILS processing circuits and flags (removal when signal valid).
AUTO FLIGHT WARN (22-10-04) Function unknown. May provide A/P status (i.e. A/P disconnect) when aircraft loses main bus power (uneducated guess!)
UPPER YAW DAMPER (22-21-01) Provides power to Upper Yaw Damper switch (not switchlights) to turn on Upper Yaw Damper Module (computer). However, Yaw Damper Module requires Flight Control Elec (FCE) power. Will provide FCE distribution schematic at a later date.
FLIGHT CONTROL ELEC 1L DC (27-09-01) Also known as FCE Power Supply or PSM. One of four. See Notes at end of list)
FLIGHT CONT ELEC 2L DC (Also known as FCE Power Supply or PSM. One of four)
STAB TRIM ALT CONT (27-41-01) For Altn Stab Trim switches on thrust quadrant. Alternate stab trim system sends nose up/down signals via up/down limit switches to the STCM's which control hydraulic fluid to the stab trim jackscrew drive motors. Each stab trim mode has different up/down limits. Limit for this trim mode is 11.75degs stab LE down (14.75 units) and 2.75 degrees stab LE up (0.25Units) .
ILS/MLS SWITCH-L (34-34-01) Optional switching for aircraft fitted with microwave landing systems.
ILS ANTENNA SWITCH LEFT (34-31-01) Glideslope and Localiser antenna switching power for Left ILS system. When gear is not down and locked, the glideslope systems use the glideslope "capture" antennae behind the radome. When the gear is down and locked, the glideslope systems use the"track" antennae mounted on the small nosewheel gear doors. Under certain circumstances, the localizer systems share the VOR antennae at the top of the vertical stabilizer. When APProach mode is selected (with certain other qualifications, the localizer systems use the dedicated localizer "track" antennae behind the radome. With no power to the system, the GS and Loc default to the approach mode antennae.
AURAL WARNING LEFT SPEAKER (31-51-01) Dedicated Aural Warning Speaker above captains head. Speaker receives inputs from TCAS, (Enhanced) Ground Proximity System, Weather Radar (Predictive Windshear) and MAWEA (Fire, Warning, Caution, etc)
STICK SHAKER LEFT (27-32-01) Provides power to Stick Shaker on Captain's control column. Requires signal from Left Stall Warning Management Card in MAWEA.
BCU 1 (24-41-01) Electrical Bus Control Unit #1. MUST BE POWERED TO GET POWER ON RESPECTIVE SIDE OF SYNCH BUS. BCU can be powered by a number of different busses. Varitions are also possible depending on age of aircraft, modifications, etc. E.g. 28Vdc GROUND HANDLING BUS or 28Vdc Main BATTERY BUS or APU HOT BATTERY BUS (if battery switch is on) or main AC busses if #1 EXT Power contactor is closed.
GEN DRV DISC 1 (24-11-01) Generator Drive Disconnect. Power is required to disconnect the IDG (and engine N2 rotation)
GEN DRV DISC 2 (24-11-02)
GEN DRV DISC 3 (24-11-03)
GEN DRV DISC 4 (24-11-04)
AGCU 1 (24-22-03) Generator Control Unit for APU Generator (not to be confused with APUC). Controls operation of APU Gen #1 and opens/closes Aux Power Breaker #1 (Co-ordinates operation with BCU #1)
ENG 1 FUEL XFEED VLV (28-22-02) Provides power to XFEED Valve switch on overhead fuel panel (not lights in switch). The switch opens/closes the respective xfeed valve. It also provides power to the logic in the Valve Position Logic Cards in the Fuel System Card Files. The VPLC's send a signal to the VALVE light in the XFEED Valve switch to illuminate/extinguish the light (additional power is required for the bulbs). The VPLC's also send a signal to the EIU's Via FSEIC cards (Fuel System EICAS Interface Cards) for EICAS message logic.
ENG 2 FUEL XFEED VLV (28-22-02) Provides power to XFEED Valve switch on overhead fuel panel (not lights in switch). The switch opens the valve if air/ground & flap logic is satisfied. The switch closes the valve if selected to off. VPLC and FSEIC interface as above.
ENG 3 FUEL XFEED VLV (28-22-02) Ref ENG 2
ENG 4 FUEL XFEED VLV (28-22-02) Same as ENG 1.
FLT DK DOME LIGHTS (33-13-01)
PARK BRAKE (32-44-01) Provides power to park brake motorized valve and power to illuminate the park brake light. Powers Park Brake Valve position relays (which send signals to EIU's for EICAS "PARK BRAKE SET" Memo and "PARK BRAKE VALVE" Status (fault message). Park Brake Lever position signal is also sent to the Brake System Control Unit (as Park Brake will affect antiskid and torque limiting).
FLT DK CAPT IND LTS (33-12-01) Provides power to selected annunciator lights on overhead panel, glareshield, main instrument panel and pedestal (tables requred)
CABIN PRESS MANUAL LEFT (21-31-04) This or CAB PRESS AUTO A can provide power for manual control of the Left Outflow valve DC motor(OUTFLOW VALVE LEFT CB on APU Hot Battery Bus must be set to power the motor)
CABIN PRESS MANUAL RIGHT (21-31-04) Have seen this listed on one airline's Main Hot Battery Bus system. Don't know if this is an error or not. This or CABIN PRESS AUTO B CB can provide power for manual control of the Right Outflow valve DC motor (OUTFLOW VALVE RIGHT CB on APU Hot Battery Bus must be set to power the motor)
FLT DK STORM LIGHTS (33-13-01)
ENG 1 FUEL CONT VLV (76-11-01) Provides power via Fire Handle to Fuel Cutoff Lever to open/close SOSV (Shut Off Servo Valve) in Hydromechanical Unit (CF6). Also provides power to relays and EIU's for shutdown/engine running message logic.
ENG 2 FUEL CONT VLV
ENG 3 FUEL CONT VLV (76-11-03)
ENG 4 FUEL CONT VLV
APU ALT CONT (49-11-01) This or APU PRIME CONT CB provides power to APU Controller and to APUC-controlled "95% relays" (which allow APU bleed air and APU generators to come on line).
PRIMARY TE FLAP CONT DC (27-51-01) Provides power to Flaps Extend/Retract Drive relays. Logic to activate either the extend or retract relay is provided by the Flap Control Units (FCU's). The relays allow CB power to reach the electrically operated (TE) Flap Input Actuator which controls valves on both Inboard and Outboard TE hydraulic-power drives.
E/E COOLING SMOKE OVRD (21-58-03) Supplies power to various relays in the Equipment Cooling system (Cargo Fire E/E Cooling Shutoff relay, Smoke/Overboard Valve relay, Differential Pressure relay and E6/E9 Valve relay).
E/E COOLING PCA (21-58-01) Provides power to the Equipment Cooling control card.


_28VDC MAIN HOT BATTERY BUS_
ENG 1 & 3 B FIRE EXT (26-21-01) Provides power to 1 & 3B squibs via Fire Handles. Also provides power to squib test light when test button pushed on overhead Maintenance Panel.
ENG 1 & 3 A FIRE EXT
ENG 2 & 4 B FIRE EXT
ENG 2 & 4 A FIRE EXT
ENG 1 FUEL S/O VALVE (28-22-01) Provides power to open close Spar Valve. Power is routed through Fire Handle and Fuel Cutoff lever. Also powers relays which send open/closed logic to Fuel System EICAS Interface Cards (FSEIC) for EICAS messages.
ENG 2 FUEL S/O VALVE (As above for engine 2).
ENG 3 FUEL S/O VALVE
ENG 4 FUEL S/O VALVE
FUELING VALVE 2 (28-21-01) Provides some of the power required for refuelling when wing fueling station BAT switch is in BAT position (for when main bus power is not available).
GCU 1 (GENERATOR CONTROL UNIT 1) (24-22-01) 28Vdc backup power for GCU.
GCU 2
GCU 3
GCU 4
EMERG EVAC (25-63-01) Provides power to emergency EVAC lights and horns in the cockpit and cabin. Works on a dead ship (unless the battery is totally flat).
FUELING POWER-HOT BAT (28-21-01) Provides power to refueling system when BAT switch selected on Wing Fueling Panel
ELEX CLOCK (Chronometer timebase for Captain and F/O)
ACARS DC (23-22-01)
FIRE SW UNLOCK (26-11-01) Provides power to the Fire Handles unlock solenoids.
MAIN BAT OVHT PROT (24-31-01) This CB powers the relay circuit which disables (removes power from) the Main Battery Charger if an overheat switch is closed by excessive battery temperatures. Another section of this circuit disables the Main Battery Charger if the Standby Power Switch is selected to BAT.
MAIN BAT VOLTAGE (24-34-03) Provides battery voltage sample for use by BCU's (data is sent to EIU's).
BCU 2 (24-41-02) Electrical Bus Control Unit #2. MUST BE POWERED TO GET POWER ON RESPECTIVE SIDE OF SYNCH BUS. BCU can be powered by a number of different busses. Varitions are also possible depending on age of aircraft, modifications, etc. E.g. 28Vdc GROUND HANDLING BUS or 28Vdc APU BATTERY BUS or MAIN BAT HOT BUS (if battery switch is on) or main AC busses if #2 EXT Power contactor is closed).
FIRE EXT LWR CARGO (26-23-01) Provides power to the Cargo Fire Discharge switch on the overhead panel. When the switch is pushed with either the FWD or AFT switches selected, the power will be routed to the squibs for the extinguishant bottles, blowing the squibs and releasing the contents of the bottle into the selected cargo area.
IRS ON BATTERY (34-21-04) Provides power to the Ground Crew Horn on the nose wheel and the "IRS ON BATT" light on the overhead panel. The light will illuminate if any IRS is on battery power only, the aircraft is on the ground and the Ground Service Bus is de-energized. The ground call horn will also sound under these conditions (or if the pilots call the ground or if the Equipment Cooling system air rises above a certain temperature for 55 seconds on the ground or if low cooling airflow is detected on the ground for the same time period).
TOWING/BAT PWR CONT (Optional Towing Bus power. With Dead Ship AND Stby Power Switch OFF, the towing switch can be selected on to power selected systems used for aircraft towing. Low current drain stuff)

Did I miss anything?

Rgds.
NSEU

[B A Lert]

Where are, or were, they?

Qantas by all accounts have experienced a near catastrophic incident. The QF2 saga was wall-to-wall on the news tonight but there was not a peep from anyone at Qantas. Perhaps someone was interviewed but the copy was unsatisfactory to air. Why haven't we heard from any of the top team at Qantas, starting from Dixon and Cox? What have management told staff and customers by way of reassurance?


It IS time for wholesale changes at the top - I hope that the new Chairman conducted an appropriate due diligence before he accepted what could be a poisoned chalice.

PS The workers, as usual at Qantas, have done a great job. They should be richly acknowledged for their efforts in bringing home the bacon. .

[NAS1801]

Why haven't we heard from any of the top team at Qantas, starting from Dixon and Cox?

Hahahahahaaaaaaaaa yesssssssss!!!! Get cox on Today Tonight again!! The Chasers war is off air at the moment and we need some good comedy!!

[Galley Raider]

NSEU,
You have way too much time on your hands. You must be a supervisor.

I am glad the question didn't need to be, "what was still working after 45 mins?"

Cox and Co have been quiet. Even the half baked Today Tonight team could not get to them. They must be at spin school...."Now repeat after me: It was not a safety incident, It was a quality lapse."

[capt.cynical]

no word from QF

The "Spin Dr's" are still on holiday ??

[QFinsider]

As a 400 pilot I am naturally concerned. This is but another lining up of the swiss cheese model that "other" airlines have proven is so true..Now it is us. How long until the world realises the management of Dixon and cohorts know nothing of aviation. Spin will not prevent the big one, I hope the divisiveness of the mismanagement departs before we have an incidenet that cant be spun away..........

To my colleagues well done. That is what Qantas pilots are paid for, the statistically unlikely 1%. They are worth every cent. Bean counters have had too much control for way too long. It is time they were put back to counting and not being allowed to touch anything. They have unfortunately assumed a role far in excess of their actual competence. The increasing number of incidents is testament to how out of touch, Dixon, Borghetti, Cox, Gregg , Jackson et al are. They know nothing nothing of effective leadership, and less of aviation.

This once great airline was built by pilots and engineers. They used their own money and knowledge. current "management" can say what ever they please, they are not pilots, nor engineers and the only engineering that goes on in their ranks is of the financial type.

FOG et al

[flyingtake2]

A big wake up call

Lets hope that this is a wake up call for the multimillionaires at the top. They cant run this company like a bank -peoples lives are on the line for stuff ups.

[northcoastal]

Yes it's good to know we still have quality pilots...well done.

I'm thinking that a handheld ICOM & Garmin 296 should be standard in the cockpit...that's redundancy.

[teresa green]

Firstly, well done lads, (or ladies) I'm with you QFinsider, I registed a post no more than a fortnight ago (before this incident) stating exactly what you have posted re having pilot and engineers more involved in the running of the company, and as I said then, these people would not know a APU from a camels A#se. Thirdly,and while I am not saying this was the cause but one of the banes of Flight Engineers was the habit of coffee grains being put down drains instead of into the provided bags, it was also a constant complaint from the ground engineers, it was repeatedly done even though the FSD/CSM often requested otherwise. I nominate the next C/C member caught doing it should be made to swim home. Forthly, I am starting to think BKK is QF's nemisis! And lastly knowing QF like I do, the witchhunt will now start. If they can find some poor hapless engineer to pin it on they will, at no stage will they consider the fault could have come from the destruction of one of the best engineering groups in this country all in the name of the mighty $$$. WAKE UP BEFORE IT IS TO LATE, we are dealing in A/C here not bloody jam tin labels!!

[Big Enis Burdett]

Pretty sure last C check on OJM was carried out at Avalon in Sept 2007

[Jabawocky]

Hey....aren't you from Smokey & The Bandit

Ber...Bur....errr heck I got to go

One has to ask the question of management.....are they running Bunnings or Qantas.

One also has to ask, if there is a procedure for coffe grinds....WTF dont they follow them. All procedures are there for a good reason! Serve Nescafe Gold in future and ditch the grinds, or use the coffe bags like tea bags.

Hard to believe a 744 is almost brought down for the sake of coffee grinds.

[speedbirdhouse]

There are standard procedures for the disposal of coffee grinds that involve waste bins and not galley sinks.

Blocked sinks from a flight attendant's point of view are a major inconvenience so no one in their right mind would knowingly block one.

We have a large number of flight attendants recently recruited out of London who may be poorly trained. Perhaps this may be an issue.

The cabin crew base has a reputation for being light on experience as the conditions of employment are poor with resultant high staff turnover.

This situation does sound like a perfect vindication of "Reason's" model.

http://www.coloradofirecamp.com/swis...troduction.htm

Coffee to our premium cabins on our 744s was once of the inventum brand, pillow pack variety.

These were large tea bag style "pillows" of ground coffee that are placed in drip filter type machines.

The problem for Qantas of course is that these machine are expensive AND require maintenance from time to time.

I suspect that the coffee itself is dearer too than what we are now using.

Coffee now is made using cheap plastic 2 liter bodums using small packs of vacuum packed loose ground coffee.

Oh, and it tastes like ****.

There is also in first class an espresso machine but it uses pillow pack style coffee so its unlikely to have been a problem.

Inexperienced or poorly trained cabin crew may have been a factor but one thing is certain.

The pilots did a fantastic job.

[Scylla]

Thanks for the pilot compliments. I was unfortunate to be driving another 4-engined(?) jet when we poured the entire contents of the potable water tank into the avionics bay on rotation. Fortunately it was only a BAe146 and we were still VMC so we got a call in to ATC before the last radio died and just poled it round a circuit to land using the good old Mark 1 Eyeball.

Should have taken the hint and gone home - after an aircraft change, we then had an engine failure......

[whatdouknow]

Big Enis, suggests Avalon may be the last place that OJM was C-Checked, can anyone confirm?

[stubby jumbo]

Good Post Speedbird.

Congrats all round to those that got this aircraft safely on the ground.

Everyone has been saying this sort of thing COULD happen-"Reason Model".

Well Guess what -.it F~~~~_'n well just has !!!!

When are those clowns who "supposedly" run this joint going to wake up from their slumber.

[employes perspective]

never i suggest,their bonuses are to large,they spend to much time day dreaming about how they can spend the money,perhaps take your family to Europe for a nice holiday via BKK

[shitthatsbig]

Agree with another superlame

I must agree with you "another superlame". If the managers and lames at qf spent more time concentrating on the job these sort of accidents would not happen.
The quality of work at qf seems to be poor at the best of times, let alone when they have their eye off the ballgame.

Managers; Get on with it and sack all those slackass lame's.

Lame's; Wake up and smell the cheese, "its all over" you will be outsourced very soon.

[mrpaxing]

latent conditions are continuing

which makes this near accident an prime example of the swiss chees model. it is waiting to happen again and again. most times a 747/400K/P/J puts the nose down at TOD, water comes out of the fwd galleys and soaks the galley floor and runs off(presumable down into the cargo bays).cabin crew tell the cleaners/engineers. they cleaners clean up(on many occassions they had to come on with , the engineers have a look at a possible blockage(time permitting). next sector the same thing.
the problem is a design fault in the galleys, which puts the ice draws/drainige at the wrong place/area. once the ice melts on longer sector (the a/c is on an angle inflight) and the small drainage is unable to cope with the runoff as it blocks easily. ecxess water accumulates and once the nose goes down it comes forward. on touchdown/reverse thruster/brakes engage all the remaining water comes rushing forward. sometimes it is a lot. this happens almost every other sector.