Qantas Service Circus
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Qantas Service Circus
Blackberries are to be provided to CSMs.
Five year old technology and not 3G.
The infamous "horeshoe" on 747s is to be transferred from C Zone to E zone.
Lets upset 150 people instead of 60.
Water is now to be offered immediately after takeoff...further pushing back the commencement of the meal service..making it later and later before pax(and in particular children) are to eat.
The introduction of Premium Economy will put a greater strain on the already stretched manpower.
This is"ad hoc"management at its worst...jumping in six directions at once.
Doing a "lot" poorly instead of getting the basics right.
CC will be further disengaged...... if that is possible.
The quality of people coming into Cabin Crew ranks has declined markedly over the last few years.
The equivalent of Centrelink in NZ is being used to recruit crew.
Promote onboard managers from within the AKL base is absolutely astonishing in its stupidity.
A totally independant base that self monitors.A recipe for total disaster.
For those of you who find QF Cabin Service lacking....its about to get a whole lot worse!
Never let a domestic hostie design an international product!!!!
Five year old technology and not 3G.
The infamous "horeshoe" on 747s is to be transferred from C Zone to E zone.
Lets upset 150 people instead of 60.
Water is now to be offered immediately after takeoff...further pushing back the commencement of the meal service..making it later and later before pax(and in particular children) are to eat.
The introduction of Premium Economy will put a greater strain on the already stretched manpower.
This is"ad hoc"management at its worst...jumping in six directions at once.
Doing a "lot" poorly instead of getting the basics right.
CC will be further disengaged...... if that is possible.
The quality of people coming into Cabin Crew ranks has declined markedly over the last few years.
The equivalent of Centrelink in NZ is being used to recruit crew.
Promote onboard managers from within the AKL base is absolutely astonishing in its stupidity.
A totally independant base that self monitors.A recipe for total disaster.
For those of you who find QF Cabin Service lacking....its about to get a whole lot worse!
Never let a domestic hostie design an international product!!!!
short flights long nights
what is a horeshoe???
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Get It Right Folks
It has been said before elsewhere.
The service/tranport industry requires 2 things to succeed
(a)Happy motivated staff
(b)Provide them with resources to do their job.
Qantas fails miserably on both counts.Once extra capacity becomes available and travellers have a choice once again, Qantas is going to get creamed.
Qantas was once an industry leader now it just plays catchup...poorly
Sorry to say this but the Australian National icon is in its final death throes.Its being killed from within.
Tooths brewery died from similar management mentality and TCN 9 is also going the same way.
Never in its history has Qantas been so roundly criticized.
A bloody tragedy.....who is responsible?
The King of all Illegitimate Rodents....one G.R Dixon
The service/tranport industry requires 2 things to succeed
(a)Happy motivated staff
(b)Provide them with resources to do their job.
Qantas fails miserably on both counts.Once extra capacity becomes available and travellers have a choice once again, Qantas is going to get creamed.
Qantas was once an industry leader now it just plays catchup...poorly
Sorry to say this but the Australian National icon is in its final death throes.Its being killed from within.
Tooths brewery died from similar management mentality and TCN 9 is also going the same way.
Never in its history has Qantas been so roundly criticized.
A bloody tragedy.....who is responsible?
The King of all Illegitimate Rodents....one G.R Dixon
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Horseshoe
If you are sitting in the FG seats where the "horseshoe" is in operation you will receive your meal and drink approximately 20 to 30 minutes after your fellow travellers seated in the D and E seats.
Boring if you are sitting in the D and E seats but definitely not boring if you sitting in the F and G seats and are hungry.
The horseshoe measure is being relocated from C Zone to E Zone
to apparently appease Frequent Flyers who have had to endure this treatment for years
Introduced as a labour and cost saving measure and has never been successful from a pax point of view.
But hey ...who cares about the passenger in QF management? ...no one.
QF = Animal Farm.
Boring if you are sitting in the D and E seats but definitely not boring if you sitting in the F and G seats and are hungry.
The horseshoe measure is being relocated from C Zone to E Zone
to apparently appease Frequent Flyers who have had to endure this treatment for years
Introduced as a labour and cost saving measure and has never been successful from a pax point of view.
But hey ...who cares about the passenger in QF management? ...no one.
QF = Animal Farm.
short flights long nights
I dont even know why I am interested in this, but I ask anyway,
So what you are saying with this horseshoe thing is that you dont have a trolley going down each isle at once? You have one trolley that alternates between the left and right side of the aircraft, am I right?
If I am, no wonder pax are pissed off!
So what you are saying with this horseshoe thing is that you dont have a trolley going down each isle at once? You have one trolley that alternates between the left and right side of the aircraft, am I right?
If I am, no wonder pax are pissed off!
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Quote-
"From my experience it is to compensate for the galley being at door 2."
---------
Ah no.
The service flow operates in this fashion because QF don't have enough onboard staff to provide efficient service delivery.
---------
SOPs,
yes you are correct and on our current "Kangaroo" configs this situation effects C zone which is the smallest.
Transfer the situation to E zone and you manage to piss off the largest zone of passengers onboard.
Pure genius.
"From my experience it is to compensate for the galley being at door 2."
---------
Ah no.
The service flow operates in this fashion because QF don't have enough onboard staff to provide efficient service delivery.
---------
SOPs,
yes you are correct and on our current "Kangaroo" configs this situation effects C zone which is the smallest.
Transfer the situation to E zone and you manage to piss off the largest zone of passengers onboard.
Pure genius.
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Lack Of Teamwork
Hey MN 63 come down the back sometime and mix with the real workers in this airline.
Stop talking about stuff you know nothing about.
"The horseshoe compensates for the galley at door two"...what a load of rubbish...Pratt!
Stop talking about stuff you know nothing about.
"The horseshoe compensates for the galley at door two"...what a load of rubbish...Pratt!
short flights long nights
What an amasing service concept.....not!!!!
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Check The Facts
MN 63 has a long neck so he must be a goose...was not my theory but one expressed to me by many crew numerous times.Havent bothered to check but hey it sounds okay.
But gee...is the moon really made of green Jarlsberg?
But gee...is the moon really made of green Jarlsberg?
Last edited by travel thickness; 6th Nov 2007 at 12:42.
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Well despite all this; I traveled to New Zealand and Australia with my boys aged 12, 6 and 3 a few months back and the service was absolutely superb. We went through LAX down to Auckland stayed for a few days and skied down at the national parks, then went over to Sydney stayed for a few weeks up near Port Macquarie and came back. It was flawless!
Bags arrived on-time and without damage, kids loved the food, the flight attendants were extremely caring and we had a great time.
No question about it. It was actually even better than the last time we went down.
Bags arrived on-time and without damage, kids loved the food, the flight attendants were extremely caring and we had a great time.
No question about it. It was actually even better than the last time we went down.
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Funny but I don't remember a horseshoe in 'E' zone but wait for the procedures for the A 380!!!!!!!
As far as crew goes wait for the supreme galley designs put forward by experts who flew on a 737 or not at all.
I remember one of the visitors 'counselling' a crew member after a pax complaint and when they were told it was because of the horseshoe asked
"What is a horseshoe?"
It's good to be managed (if you could call it that) by people who have more experience in answering phone calls or managing check outs in a supermarket than flying.
As far as crew goes wait for the supreme galley designs put forward by experts who flew on a 737 or not at all.
I remember one of the visitors 'counselling' a crew member after a pax complaint and when they were told it was because of the horseshoe asked
"What is a horseshoe?"
It's good to be managed (if you could call it that) by people who have more experience in answering phone calls or managing check outs in a supermarket than flying.
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Kiwichick,When QF first bought the 747 it was their first aircraft with twin aisles.In those days before business class was thought of they had 4 meal carts which understandably started at each corner of Y/C for the meal service.
When the bean counters started to do what they do best this reduced the crew numbers.This meant that instead of 8 crew in Y/C there was 6 which means that you can't operate 4 meals carts at once because QF carts are operated by 2 crew.
The problem created therefore was where best to allocate the 3 carts.It was decided by the brain surgeons in the office that now you started with 2 at the back of 'E' zone and one at the front which when it got to door L3 did a 'U' turn or horseshoe and went back up the front on the opposite side to which it started.
This means the pax at L3 who had read their menu and could see the meal service and had decided to have chicken or beef or whatever saw the meal cart turn away just when it got to them.To make matters worse it took the crew from the back and the horseshoe crew some time to get to the pax who were watching others eat and were thinking WTF.
Basically it's robbing Peter to pay Paul,if you get what I mean.I hope this clears it up for you.
My question though is if you don't really care why did you ask the question?
When the bean counters started to do what they do best this reduced the crew numbers.This meant that instead of 8 crew in Y/C there was 6 which means that you can't operate 4 meals carts at once because QF carts are operated by 2 crew.
The problem created therefore was where best to allocate the 3 carts.It was decided by the brain surgeons in the office that now you started with 2 at the back of 'E' zone and one at the front which when it got to door L3 did a 'U' turn or horseshoe and went back up the front on the opposite side to which it started.
This means the pax at L3 who had read their menu and could see the meal service and had decided to have chicken or beef or whatever saw the meal cart turn away just when it got to them.To make matters worse it took the crew from the back and the horseshoe crew some time to get to the pax who were watching others eat and were thinking WTF.
Basically it's robbing Peter to pay Paul,if you get what I mean.I hope this clears it up for you.
My question though is if you don't really care why did you ask the question?
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I left said airline about 9 years ago, yes disgruntled and promising myself never to fly with them again. I've been saying it for years and I know alot of people on here having been saying the same thing. That is, the only thing bringing pax back is the safety record. God forbid our airline has a major "you know what" and we all pray it never happens. But, if it does this airline will be finished. 
In the numerous times I have flown with them there is only once I can remember that I can say "Hey, that was a great flight with good service".
The rest were terrible. Here are just a couple:
On a flight to Christchurch I remember on climb out of Sydney the seatbelt light went out the crew brought around the light snack then retired to the galley.......for the rest of the flight, curtains drawn. People were hitting the call buttons every couple of minutes with no response and having to go to the galley and ask for drinks. Absolutely disgusting and true.
Two months ago I took my family on a trip to Europe, wife and two kids.
Syd-HKG and HKG-SYD legs were Qf. Trip out, very ordinary nothing special. So boring in fact I barely remember it (and no there was no booze consumed by myself, maybe I should have had some come to think of it).
Anyway, our homeward bound leg. Are you ready for this? 744 aircraft, unhappy and sour cabin crew (what crap uniforms), on take off at HKG (I was positive we weren't getting off the ground, longest take off run I've ever experienced, yes it was hot, I know) the main gear left the runway and the pride of the fleet vibrated (like a giant had taken a jack hammer to the fuselage) for about 15 seconds. In all my flying I have never experienced anything like this and it scared the absolute crap out of me (and I love flying). Imagine driving your car doin about 80 and hitting consecutive speed humps one after the other, that's what it felt like.
Now just remember I had my kids on this flight and to top it off. The inflight entertainment system failed at the beginning of the flight lol and remained out for the entire flight. So it was up to me and my wife to keep my young kids occupied. Unbelievable
, not. And guess what? In the middle of the flight the CSM came around and gave me a survey form to fill out. YES that's priceless. Filled it out telling them exactly how I felt highlighting all the problems, provided my details and wrote on it I wanted to be contacted to inform me they had received it. Have I been called? I hear you ask. What do you think?
OF COURSE NOT.
Good on you DIXON you d
khead you and your buddies have really stuffed a good airline. I pray that Qf never looses an aircraft not only for the loss of life but also for the fact that the only thing keeping this airline profitable and flying (it's safety record) will also be lost. Which may result in the demise of our national carrier.
Apologies to any I have offended in writing this (except for you Dixon). Sad but true. I really needed to put in my 2 bobs, no, fifty bucks worth in on this one. I look forward to some interesting replies. Thanks for reading this far.
In the numerous times I have flown with them there is only once I can remember that I can say "Hey, that was a great flight with good service".
The rest were terrible. Here are just a couple:
On a flight to Christchurch I remember on climb out of Sydney the seatbelt light went out the crew brought around the light snack then retired to the galley.......for the rest of the flight, curtains drawn. People were hitting the call buttons every couple of minutes with no response and having to go to the galley and ask for drinks. Absolutely disgusting and true.
Two months ago I took my family on a trip to Europe, wife and two kids.
Syd-HKG and HKG-SYD legs were Qf. Trip out, very ordinary nothing special. So boring in fact I barely remember it (and no there was no booze consumed by myself, maybe I should have had some come to think of it).
Anyway, our homeward bound leg. Are you ready for this? 744 aircraft, unhappy and sour cabin crew (what crap uniforms), on take off at HKG (I was positive we weren't getting off the ground, longest take off run I've ever experienced, yes it was hot, I know) the main gear left the runway and the pride of the fleet vibrated (like a giant had taken a jack hammer to the fuselage) for about 15 seconds. In all my flying I have never experienced anything like this and it scared the absolute crap out of me (and I love flying). Imagine driving your car doin about 80 and hitting consecutive speed humps one after the other, that's what it felt like.
Now just remember I had my kids on this flight and to top it off. The inflight entertainment system failed at the beginning of the flight lol and remained out for the entire flight. So it was up to me and my wife to keep my young kids occupied. Unbelievable
, not. And guess what? In the middle of the flight the CSM came around and gave me a survey form to fill out. YES that's priceless. Filled it out telling them exactly how I felt highlighting all the problems, provided my details and wrote on it I wanted to be contacted to inform me they had received it. Have I been called? I hear you ask. What do you think? OF COURSE NOT.
Good on you DIXON you d
khead you and your buddies have really stuffed a good airline. I pray that Qf never looses an aircraft not only for the loss of life but also for the fact that the only thing keeping this airline profitable and flying (it's safety record) will also be lost. Which may result in the demise of our national carrier. Apologies to any I have offended in writing this (except for you Dixon). Sad but true. I really needed to put in my 2 bobs, no, fifty bucks worth in on this one. I look forward to some interesting replies. Thanks for reading this far.
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you have to understand math
the way the GD and his cronies measure success. he has 18 month or so to go before he retires in glory. maximise profits in that time.there will be little extra capacity on the market/routes(lack of aircraft) so the planes going to be full anyway. and lets get the service standards down to jetstar levels so there is no difference between the two in 5 years. and hey who cares whats after july 09, GD is gone, let the next bunny pick up the disaster.
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mudpig you comments are true!
things are going to get worse, they now are conducting an audit on soft drinks and wet ice!
they are trying to tell us that by reducing the amount of ice put on board they will save on fuel and also help the environment!! what a farking joke.
the same applies with soft drinks, they are going to cut it so fine, that we will no longer be able to offer you a coke at the end of the flight.
its got nothing to do with the environment, basically if we save on some fuel a middle manager somewhere will get a huge bonus for cutting costs.
things are going to get worse, they now are conducting an audit on soft drinks and wet ice!
they are trying to tell us that by reducing the amount of ice put on board they will save on fuel and also help the environment!! what a farking joke.
the same applies with soft drinks, they are going to cut it so fine, that we will no longer be able to offer you a coke at the end of the flight.
its got nothing to do with the environment, basically if we save on some fuel a middle manager somewhere will get a huge bonus for cutting costs.
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Origin Of The Horseshoe
The Horseshoe did indeed start off in "E"Zone but it upset so many people that moved it forward so that it upset less people.But hey..they moved it to where the FFs travel...Oops!
It has taken them about eigth years to figure that one out.
Note Bene:MN 63 has decided to withdraw his assinine comments
It has taken them about eigth years to figure that one out.
Note Bene:MN 63 has decided to withdraw his assinine comments
Last edited by surfside6; 7th Nov 2007 at 00:58.
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Defcon
Oh yeah I'm sure. Mind you this was in about '94-'95 thereabouts. There what a lot goin on in the company back then with cost cutting. Oh yeah there where some tensions in the cabin I'll tell you that for nothin.
People off loading at the end of the flight were tellin the cabin crew where to stick their "Thanks for flying with us" routine.
I can just say I was glad I was flyin on ID90 rates.
Oh yeah I'm sure. Mind you this was in about '94-'95 thereabouts. There what a lot goin on in the company back then with cost cutting. Oh yeah there where some tensions in the cabin I'll tell you that for nothin.
People off loading at the end of the flight were tellin the cabin crew where to stick their "Thanks for flying with us" routine.
I can just say I was glad I was flyin on ID90 rates.
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Service Failures
You are no longer allowed to use the PA system to apologize for Service Failures.Probably because you would using it every five minutes.
1.Insufficient meals to provide adequate meal choice
2.Fruit at 30% loading
3.Hot chocolate at 70% loading
4.Already reduced levels of soft drinks
5.The infamous IFE system
6.Lighting systems failing
7.Engineering unable to cope because of major downsizing.
8.Childrens amenity packs in short supply
9.Some ports short of headsets
10.Shortage of J/C and P/C amenity packs network wide.
The list goes on.
Once more capacity is available with other carriers.....QF will lose premium travellers in droves
1.Insufficient meals to provide adequate meal choice
2.Fruit at 30% loading
3.Hot chocolate at 70% loading
4.Already reduced levels of soft drinks
5.The infamous IFE system
6.Lighting systems failing
7.Engineering unable to cope because of major downsizing.
8.Childrens amenity packs in short supply
9.Some ports short of headsets
10.Shortage of J/C and P/C amenity packs network wide.
The list goes on.
Once more capacity is available with other carriers.....QF will lose premium travellers in droves