Qantas CP unofficial comment on pilot shortage.
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Qantas CP unofficial comment on pilot shortage.
Airlines grapple with chronic pilot shortage
3:44p.m. 19 October 2007
A chronic shortage of airline pilots is forcing the aviation industry into a crisis “bigger than the airline strike of 1989 and bigger than the Ansett collapse”.
That is the dire warning Qantas Group flight operations general manager and chief pilot Chris Manning gave to the Regional Aviation Association of Australia Convention at the Hyatt Coolum yesterday.
Qantas has unashamedly “poached” staff from regional airlines as it battles to meet heightened demands because of the low-cost airline boom.
Captain Manning said the crisis was “the worst I’ve seen in my 37 years”.
It was feared the pilot shortage could collapse regional airlines with Regional Express already warning its cancellation rate was “running at four times historical levels”.
REx chief of staff Jim Davis said the situation was only going to get worse, with industry feedback suggesting the “net additional requirement for pilots will be of the order of 1800 over the next two years”.
Fewer than 400 new airline transport pilot licences are issued in Australia every year.
Qantas alone will need to recruit about 300 pilots in the next two years and the other major airlines, Virgin, Jetstar, Cathay Pacific, are in the same boat.
“More than 20% of our pilots have been poached by Virgin, Jetstar and Qantas in the last three months and I am sure the situation is similar or worse in the other regional carriers,” Mr Davis said.
Captain Manning said the industry needed to put pressure on airlines and governments to find a solution.
3:44p.m. 19 October 2007
A chronic shortage of airline pilots is forcing the aviation industry into a crisis “bigger than the airline strike of 1989 and bigger than the Ansett collapse”.
That is the dire warning Qantas Group flight operations general manager and chief pilot Chris Manning gave to the Regional Aviation Association of Australia Convention at the Hyatt Coolum yesterday.
Qantas has unashamedly “poached” staff from regional airlines as it battles to meet heightened demands because of the low-cost airline boom.
Captain Manning said the crisis was “the worst I’ve seen in my 37 years”.
It was feared the pilot shortage could collapse regional airlines with Regional Express already warning its cancellation rate was “running at four times historical levels”.
REx chief of staff Jim Davis said the situation was only going to get worse, with industry feedback suggesting the “net additional requirement for pilots will be of the order of 1800 over the next two years”.
Fewer than 400 new airline transport pilot licences are issued in Australia every year.
Qantas alone will need to recruit about 300 pilots in the next two years and the other major airlines, Virgin, Jetstar, Cathay Pacific, are in the same boat.
“More than 20% of our pilots have been poached by Virgin, Jetstar and Qantas in the last three months and I am sure the situation is similar or worse in the other regional carriers,” Mr Davis said.
Captain Manning said the industry needed to put pressure on airlines and governments to find a solution.
Poaching is theft that violates certain rights of ownership. What rights does he refer to?
Pilots moving onto to higher paid jobs and/or greater responsibilities is called "career progression" like every other workplace..... not 'poaching'
!
Pilots moving onto to higher paid jobs and/or greater responsibilities is called "career progression" like every other workplace..... not 'poaching'
!
Whispering "T" Jet
Jim Davis knows how to fix the problem at Rex. Start treating the staff with a little respect and a small increase in remuneration for past and future services.
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I was told when I started flight training, ( at the age of 25), that I had left my run too late to become a commercial pilot in the airlines. How *&%^ing happy am I that I did not listen to that advice. All I have to do is choose the highest bidder with the best conditions. And as with any industry, why wouldn't you. I thought poaching was when you put eggs in water or steam to cook. 
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Captain Manning said the industry needed to put pressure on airlines and governments to find a solution.
It isn't rocket science why young people want nothing to do with aviation. Time to pay up & treat people with respect
Airlines crying to the government is a waste of time. Aviation operators might get them to offer a rebate on pilot equipment like the tradies get on tools but paying for a pilots flight training is not going to happen.
Nunc est bibendum
What is interesting in all of this is that QF (who have pretty good terms and conditions albeit not world beating and they can always do better) have been caught in the perfect storm of LCCs like Virgin and Jetstar, and the regionals of all failing to pay decent money.
One of the reasons that many people put up with the less than optimal terms and conditions in the regionals for a period of time is because they know that when they hit the jackpot and crack an airline job that the pay will make up for all the bad years. That jackpot no longer exists because those terms and conditions at the other two 'majors' just isn't worth it- at least according to the many young people that I deal with in my 'other' job. So Qantas (as in Flight Ops) hasn't really caused this but Qantas (as in the airline) has certainly contributed to it by persisting with the J* terms and conditions and by failing to give their regional drivers terms and conditions that will see young people enter the industry.
Chris et al see the solution of making the training cheaper and that is certainly part of it but until you can guarantee a graduate of the flight school that if they get a job that they'll be on $40K or more (as most engineers are when they graduate from uni) then we're going to continue to see young people disengage from aviation as a career choice.
What frustrates me is that none of the journo's (this means you Gerard Frawley, Steve Creedy, Geoff Thomas, Ben Sandilands, etc) bother looking at that angle. I note that Gerard Frawley in this month's Australian Aviation quotes aircraft (of all people
) in his editorial and yet doesn't even get to the heart of the matter that without decent paying gigs, people just won't invest the money required to be a pilot.
Perhaps the real issues are beyond them, just as it appears the real issues are beyond the likes of Jim Davis and every other manager that is struggling to find pilots. Reap what you sow boys.
One of the reasons that many people put up with the less than optimal terms and conditions in the regionals for a period of time is because they know that when they hit the jackpot and crack an airline job that the pay will make up for all the bad years. That jackpot no longer exists because those terms and conditions at the other two 'majors' just isn't worth it- at least according to the many young people that I deal with in my 'other' job. So Qantas (as in Flight Ops) hasn't really caused this but Qantas (as in the airline) has certainly contributed to it by persisting with the J* terms and conditions and by failing to give their regional drivers terms and conditions that will see young people enter the industry.
Chris et al see the solution of making the training cheaper and that is certainly part of it but until you can guarantee a graduate of the flight school that if they get a job that they'll be on $40K or more (as most engineers are when they graduate from uni) then we're going to continue to see young people disengage from aviation as a career choice.
What frustrates me is that none of the journo's (this means you Gerard Frawley, Steve Creedy, Geoff Thomas, Ben Sandilands, etc) bother looking at that angle. I note that Gerard Frawley in this month's Australian Aviation quotes aircraft (of all people
) in his editorial and yet doesn't even get to the heart of the matter that without decent paying gigs, people just won't invest the money required to be a pilot.Perhaps the real issues are beyond them, just as it appears the real issues are beyond the likes of Jim Davis and every other manager that is struggling to find pilots. Reap what you sow boys.
Captain Manning said the industry needed to put pressure on airlines and governments to find a solution.
a graduate of the flight school that if they get a job that they'll be on $40K or more (as most engineers are when they graduate from uni) then we're going to continue to see young people disengage from aviation as a career choice.
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I manage a 24 year old earning in excess of $70k-plus car and phone all for selling cars (prestige mind you) 5 days a week and he has no degree or HSC.
He states he would love to fly, but it is not worth the effort vs the reward. (Keg, you are spot on in regards to your coments !).
The only reason I am pursuing a flying career is I look skywards every day and cannot help being excited by piloting an aircraft. I will have to take a substantial pay cut (in excess of $50k) just to fullfill the dream.
He states he would love to fly, but it is not worth the effort vs the reward. (Keg, you are spot on in regards to your coments !).
The only reason I am pursuing a flying career is I look skywards every day and cannot help being excited by piloting an aircraft
. I will have to take a substantial pay cut (in excess of $50k) just to fullfill the dream.
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In this age of the net, the information (crap pay plus crap lifestyle) is easy to come by.
Either from the airline industry itself or even from more dubious sources like this forum. Just Google "cost to become a pilot"...
I rest my case.
And please aircraft, save us the diatribe about how easy the job is and not much effort is involved.
Either from the airline industry itself or even from more dubious sources like this forum. Just Google "cost to become a pilot"...
He states he would love to fly, but it is not worth the effort vs the reward.
And please aircraft, save us the diatribe about how easy the job is and not much effort is involved.
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tell em their dreamin
if there is such a shortage why is it that you guys still fork out the dollars to the likes of j star for interviews ,medicals ,sim chks and last but not least endorsements ? if the shortage exists surely it would be a sellers market not a buyers. at least the gingerbeers had the cohonos to not pay a fifteen dollar application fee for 787 jobs and they were still called
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GFTP,
The excitement soon wears off when you find yourself continually asked to moderate your expectations, money wise and lifestyle wise, primarily so that the management can maximize their bonuses. Sounds like an oversimplification but is at the heart of the problem now facing the industry.
Keg, your comments are spot on!
The excitement soon wears off when you find yourself continually asked to moderate your expectations, money wise and lifestyle wise, primarily so that the management can maximize their bonuses. Sounds like an oversimplification but is at the heart of the problem now facing the industry.
Keg, your comments are spot on!
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Does anyone really think airline owners and senior managers didn’t see this pilot shortage looming? Of course they did – its what they do - i.e to forecast/ predict and plan future trends. How else could they reequip and place orders for IT infrastructure, aircraft fleets and staff numbers for the next 5 – 10 years? Like any other business, airlines manage change and more importantly they usually engineer it.
James Strong could see the potential (and threat) of the LCC model many years ago and so set about putting the broom thru QF with outsourcing and department tendering/ bidding to put pressure on wages. It was always going to take time but this pilot shortage was always expected – thus the push to reduce wages & conditions years ago. The end result will be a wages policy that will match the business plan.
And does anyone think there’s not a plan in place to manage the short term fallout? Of course there is….you hear it from ‘startled’ Chief Pilots, CEO’s and senior managers reporting a “sudden” pilot shortage. It softens the impact with shareholders & passengers, gains them public support and can even provide them leverage for plans to reduce training minimums, adjust F&D limitations and apply for immigration concession. This is all about change management and its part of a long term, on going strategy.
James Strong could see the potential (and threat) of the LCC model many years ago and so set about putting the broom thru QF with outsourcing and department tendering/ bidding to put pressure on wages. It was always going to take time but this pilot shortage was always expected – thus the push to reduce wages & conditions years ago. The end result will be a wages policy that will match the business plan.
And does anyone think there’s not a plan in place to manage the short term fallout? Of course there is….you hear it from ‘startled’ Chief Pilots, CEO’s and senior managers reporting a “sudden” pilot shortage. It softens the impact with shareholders & passengers, gains them public support and can even provide them leverage for plans to reduce training minimums, adjust F&D limitations and apply for immigration concession. This is all about change management and its part of a long term, on going strategy.
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Chemical Ali,
Why?
if there is such a shortage why is it that you guys still fork out the dollars to the likes of j star for interviews ,medicals ,sim chks and last but not least endorsements ?
- Some people taking the jet*/DJ road make a judgment based on the numbers, and it looks OK dollars/lifestyle wise.
- Some the guys/girls that will pay up front for a chance at a jet job are used to being abused - they came through GA remember.
- They are also the type of people who would continue to fly even if they won the lottery tomorrow.
- Some of the deluded people who the airlines are now recruiting are drawn to the job by the kudos and perceived glamour. That little chicken may come home to roost at a later date.
- The airlines are loath to admit the fact that the experience standard of suitable candidates is indeed dropping. They may be reaching the 'bottom' of the barrel on this one.
- The rhetoric of "industry standard' to defend ridiculous requests for large wads of cash prior to employment turns off what I think may be anecdotally a large number of experienced pilots with......
integrity.
Last edited by WynSock; 20th Oct 2007 at 05:22. Reason: spell check is a cool thing
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Nulli,
I don't know about that. The company I work for has become extremely reactive, running around putting out spot fires of its own making.
It all started two years ago with the addition more and more aeroplanes to the fleet which
was met with........... "lets get the existing crew to cover it for now"
and then................. "lets pat ourselves on the back for running our human resource more efficiently"
to......................... " Captain Manning said the industry needed to put pressure on airlines and governments to find a solution."
wtf?
Manage change?
Like any other business, airlines manage change and more importantly they usually engineer it.
It all started two years ago with the addition more and more aeroplanes to the fleet which
was met with........... "lets get the existing crew to cover it for now"
and then................. "lets pat ourselves on the back for running our human resource more efficiently"
to......................... " Captain Manning said the industry needed to put pressure on airlines and governments to find a solution."
wtf?
Manage change?
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Crisis, what crisis?
Does anyone really think airline owners and senior managers didn’t see this pilot shortage looming? Of course they did – its what they do - i.e to forecast/ predict and plan future trends
Spot on, I suspect they have know about this for quite some time.
Further, there cannot be a 'crisis' for a listed company without an appropriate filing with the ASX or in the annual report. I haven't seen 'pilot shortage' reported as a material risk for QAN. There cannot be a 'crisis' until that threshold is crossed. This is simply trying to gouge the taxpayer & pilots simultaneously.
Last edited by freddyKrueger; 20th Oct 2007 at 06:09.
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WynSock
I'm not sure about how your company operates or handles its growth - granted some may get it wrong or misjudge future trends - however those with structured management teams which utilise sophisticated planning tools & processes forsee these outcomes. They know what to expect and how to accomodate the impact so that they achieve a lower cost base, better productivity or whatever the aim is.
When Chris Manning makes the statement "the industry needed to put pressure on airlines and governments to find a solution." its a furphy. He already knows the solution i.e pay pilots more and ensure more pilots are trained. He's simply playing his small part in the bigger company process. And rest assured any public statement made by someone at his level would be not be 'off the cuff'.
Can you see the process unfolding?
Assuming the quote has been accurately reported, he's actually lobbying others (the industry) to put pressure on the government & his own employer (the airlines) to solve the problem. Think about it.
Its not an industry problem! Its an airline problem!
Why would Chris Manning make that statement? Because he knows and more importantly his employer knows, the average reader can be led to believe the crewing shortage is something they have had little control over. By building a case as a victim of circumstance beyond their control, they can leverage public & shareholder support (due lack of flights, reduced or no regional services and declining shareholder value) to ensure their business plan achieves its objectives i.e aircraft crewed on wages matching their wages policy with productivity levels also matching future plans.
I'm not sure about how your company operates or handles its growth - granted some may get it wrong or misjudge future trends - however those with structured management teams which utilise sophisticated planning tools & processes forsee these outcomes. They know what to expect and how to accomodate the impact so that they achieve a lower cost base, better productivity or whatever the aim is.
When Chris Manning makes the statement "the industry needed to put pressure on airlines and governments to find a solution." its a furphy. He already knows the solution i.e pay pilots more and ensure more pilots are trained. He's simply playing his small part in the bigger company process. And rest assured any public statement made by someone at his level would be not be 'off the cuff'.
Can you see the process unfolding?
Assuming the quote has been accurately reported, he's actually lobbying others (the industry) to put pressure on the government & his own employer (the airlines) to solve the problem. Think about it.
Its not an industry problem! Its an airline problem!
Why would Chris Manning make that statement? Because he knows and more importantly his employer knows, the average reader can be led to believe the crewing shortage is something they have had little control over. By building a case as a victim of circumstance beyond their control, they can leverage public & shareholder support (due lack of flights, reduced or no regional services and declining shareholder value) to ensure their business plan achieves its objectives i.e aircraft crewed on wages matching their wages policy with productivity levels also matching future plans.
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Spot on Keg...
Industrial deafness is at an all time high.
Mis-management have had the benefit of the LCC perfect storm, now it is time for the clean up.
In pursuing the Dixon/Oldmeadow model of divide and conquer, drive it all into the ground, encourage scalping, they have unwittingly opened a pandora's box...
Pilots are not there anymore to be divided and conquered. (Sure there will always be a few). The consequence for management in their apporach to drive down costs, encourage higher paid staff to leave, transfer assets to "lower cost" models is fatally flawed. It assumes there is an abundant supply of labour. There simply isn't.
"It's all about bucks, the rest is conversation"- Gordon Gecko
Q is reaping as it sowed as are many other employers, not just in aviation
Industrial deafness is at an all time high.
Mis-management have had the benefit of the LCC perfect storm, now it is time for the clean up.
In pursuing the Dixon/Oldmeadow model of divide and conquer, drive it all into the ground, encourage scalping, they have unwittingly opened a pandora's box...
Pilots are not there anymore to be divided and conquered. (Sure there will always be a few). The consequence for management in their apporach to drive down costs, encourage higher paid staff to leave, transfer assets to "lower cost" models is fatally flawed. It assumes there is an abundant supply of labour. There simply isn't.
- Career progression
- Remuneration
- Integrity in management
- Mutual respect
"It's all about bucks, the rest is conversation"- Gordon Gecko
Q is reaping as it sowed as are many other employers, not just in aviation
Last edited by QFinsider; 20th Oct 2007 at 09:37. Reason: shocking spelling...
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CPL holders with a NVFR or CIR rating are invited to apply for a FIR scholarship with Basair Aviation College. Suitable candidates will be trained for their Grade 3 instructor rating at no cost in exchange for a period of service to Basair - Job ad. AFAP website
Anyone can see, solving the crewing issue is easy.
The major airlines know this, infact many used to run inhouse ab initio crew training. Retaining crew is not rocket science either. Unfortunately, low wages and conditions (relative to a flight crew members' responsibility and skill level) have and will continue to decline.
One would expect morale to follow also, maybe not long term.
For mine, anyone choosing to become a professional pilot or continue as one needs to have either a plan B..i.e build a secondary revenue stream and/ or an early exit strategy, a passionate resolve to lobby industry groups, colleagues & employers to boost wages & conditions or be satisfied with what's on offer & live within their means.
There are choices however just like airline managers, aviation professionals such as pilots & engineers need to find ways to manage the future changes for themselves. Old fashioned values of loyalty and pride in one's company have diminshed significantly in aviation and trying to hold on to them or even resurrect them, particularly in Australian aviation, is unfortunatley not part of the programme these days. Airline Partners will tell you that.
Anyone can see, solving the crewing issue is easy.
The major airlines know this, infact many used to run inhouse ab initio crew training. Retaining crew is not rocket science either. Unfortunately, low wages and conditions (relative to a flight crew members' responsibility and skill level) have and will continue to decline.
One would expect morale to follow also, maybe not long term.
For mine, anyone choosing to become a professional pilot or continue as one needs to have either a plan B..i.e build a secondary revenue stream and/ or an early exit strategy, a passionate resolve to lobby industry groups, colleagues & employers to boost wages & conditions or be satisfied with what's on offer & live within their means.
There are choices however just like airline managers, aviation professionals such as pilots & engineers need to find ways to manage the future changes for themselves. Old fashioned values of loyalty and pride in one's company have diminshed significantly in aviation and trying to hold on to them or even resurrect them, particularly in Australian aviation, is unfortunatley not part of the programme these days. Airline Partners will tell you that.