Mega Merged: Qantas Long Haul Cabin Crew Eba8 Negotiations
The Tech crew for the first four aircraft have their slots and will start training early 08 - pay and conditions are yet to be agreed. LH Tech crew Certified Agreement provides for the aircraft being flown for up to 3 months before any action can be taken to force an agreement. I believe that the successful conclusion of the LH Cabin Crew EBA means that they will be crewing the Dugong. As the first four aircraft will do nothing but LAX trips, all I can say is - BORING.
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Not True...Skychild
Current LHCC will have access to the A380 on their current renumeration.They will have two years to make up their minds about staying on it permanently.Anyone after that who applies to work on ot will not have that choice.You will have a mix of new hires and current crew each on different payscales.ie "A"Scale current crew."B"Scale new hires.Rosters can be built up to 240 hrs and the right to vote on duties over 17hrs in unplanned circumstances will not apply.QF is to treat this "division"separately for rostering purposes.
International flying will be divided between the elite fleet(A380) and regional flying which will be anything within a 3 hour time change east or west of Sydney.Destinations like HNL and BOM will make up a much smaller third division.
The new hires on the "B"scale will fly exclusively on the A380.Promotion for new hires to the Onboard Manager position will see them receive remuneration similar to their "A"scale counterparts.
Crew complements has not yet been finalized but it seems likely to be either 23/24 including 1CSM and 2 CSS.
It will have 4 classes..P/C J/C Premium Y/C and Y/C and carry around 550 pax.
If the EBA is not voted up most of the above will be void.
International flying will be divided between the elite fleet(A380) and regional flying which will be anything within a 3 hour time change east or west of Sydney.Destinations like HNL and BOM will make up a much smaller third division.
The new hires on the "B"scale will fly exclusively on the A380.Promotion for new hires to the Onboard Manager position will see them receive remuneration similar to their "A"scale counterparts.
Crew complements has not yet been finalized but it seems likely to be either 23/24 including 1CSM and 2 CSS.
It will have 4 classes..P/C J/C Premium Y/C and Y/C and carry around 550 pax.
If the EBA is not voted up most of the above will be void.
Last edited by DEFCON4; 4th Dec 2007 at 11:43.
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skychild ...
Your not far off the mark as there won't be many current L/H crew who will want to fly the 380.
There are always some who want to be the first to have the lastest car and in this case fly the latest aircraft BUT.......
Although their pay will be protected the hours and whatever else is in the contract will be the same as the 'B' scale crew.Most will find it very unappealing.
Your not far off the mark as there won't be many current L/H crew who will want to fly the 380.
There are always some who want to be the first to have the lastest car and in this case fly the latest aircraft BUT.......
Although their pay will be protected the hours and whatever else is in the contract will be the same as the 'B' scale crew.Most will find it very unappealing.
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u5mj...
Apparently the new recruits will receive allowances as current L/h crew do.For the rest of the deal you will have to ring the FAAA or the company when they advertise.
I take it you are S/H and if so what is the reaction amongst S/H crew to the L/H EBA?
Apparently the new recruits will receive allowances as current L/h crew do.For the rest of the deal you will have to ring the FAAA or the company when they advertise.
I take it you are S/H and if so what is the reaction amongst S/H crew to the L/H EBA?
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SHort Haul are toast
Could not agree more, Short Haul Union can be at times inempt impotent and without much spine, forget about them joining long haul look what they did to long haul in last eba's. I would be interested to hear from the short haul union on this post in reply to Long Hauls EBA
Last edited by S/H 737; 5th Dec 2007 at 03:26.
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I'm not even a member of the long haul union and i get replys on the same day from your union ,try getting that response from the short haul union, You long haulers dont know how lucky you are having Mitchatov,Reed ,Lam on your side, try borrowing Short Haul union officials to do your negotiating then you will really have something to complain about !!!
Last edited by S/H 737; 5th Dec 2007 at 03:27.
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I couldn't disagree more
I'm a member of the short haul division not for short haul but a member nonetheless and they have looked after me every time I've contacted them. I know of quite a few crew (not just my airline) who have needed representation and got it to complete satisfaction.
I've read just like everyone else, the LH v SH arguments on here and everyone has a different opinion. Personally, I think SH have done a great job looking after SH and all of us in the past and I'm sure they'll keep on doing that. I have faith in my union representatives and I'm not embarrased, just like most on here, to say so.
I dont understand any argument that says two unions are better than one. One union will always be stronger.
Cheers, just my thoughts.
PS: S/H 737 you should probably change your log in before posting to agree with yourself !
I've read just like everyone else, the LH v SH arguments on here and everyone has a different opinion. Personally, I think SH have done a great job looking after SH and all of us in the past and I'm sure they'll keep on doing that. I have faith in my union representatives and I'm not embarrased, just like most on here, to say so.
I dont understand any argument that says two unions are better than one. One union will always be stronger.
Cheers, just my thoughts.
PS: S/H 737 you should probably change your log in before posting to agree with yourself !
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You long haulers dont know how lucky you are having Mitchatov,Reed ,Lam on your side
Are you guy's in the bunker having a slow day....
Next time when you are after another supporter pick a name without a number after it and as regional guy said sign out and use another name before you sign in again....especially if you are going to agree with yourself....what a crack up...
Pegasus ...is that you...if it is then it's the second time you have been caught out...
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A few corrections
Sorry Defcon, I am not trying to pick on you but there are a few points in your previous post which were not quite correct:
Well, that's not entirely true. If current L/H crew choose to work on the A380, they will be working under the pay and conditions offered to the new starters. On top of this, they will be payed a "top-up" amount each pay, to try to keep their pay in line with their current pay. Note that working on the A380 would mean you do not have access to the bid system and you *may* be required to work up to 240 hours (though that is unlikely during the start-up phase). This may be an appealing option to some, and not so appealing to others, but at least you have a choice.
That's not quite correct. There will really be two major divisions as far as flying goes:
1. A380 crew
2. All other international flying
The A380 crew will ONLY fly on the A380. The other group will fly on all other international aircraft, whether it's the 747, A330, 787 or any other new wide-bodied aircraft flown on international routes. That's where I would personally prefer to stay. 747s will still be flying long-range sectors for many years yet, probably with some new and interesting destinations, too! There is no group which does ONLY regional flying. Either you fly on A380s or you fly on the rest of the fleet.
Also not correct. Some of the new starters on the B scale will fly on the A380 and others will fly on the rest of the fleet along side us, the current crew.
Qantas has announced the A380 will carry 450 pax (surprising, huh?)
Yeah, that would be very dangerous... Now that I have a lot more facts, I know what I will be voting.
International flying will be divided between the elite fleet(A380) and regional flying which will be anything within a 3 hour time change east or west of Sydney.Destinations like HNL and BOM will make up a much smaller third division.
1. A380 crew
2. All other international flying
The A380 crew will ONLY fly on the A380. The other group will fly on all other international aircraft, whether it's the 747, A330, 787 or any other new wide-bodied aircraft flown on international routes. That's where I would personally prefer to stay. 747s will still be flying long-range sectors for many years yet, probably with some new and interesting destinations, too! There is no group which does ONLY regional flying. Either you fly on A380s or you fly on the rest of the fleet.
The new hires on the "B"scale will fly exclusively on the A380.
re: A380. It will have 4 classes..P/C J/C Premium Y/C and Y/C and carry around 550 pax.
If the EBA is not voted up most of the above will be void.
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Yep, all Oz-based L/H crew will get the same allowances :-) On top of that, you will get overtime on sectors over 12 hours, which is another way to prop-up your pay. There is also another allowance you will get, based on the number of hours of the trip.
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Flugbegleiter
Where did you derive your information?
QF will not have 4 classes and 450 pax...thats an absolute waste of a resource.
Borghetti, at a stategy,indicated 550 as have numerous media sources
The A380 will have A and B scale crew...Current and new hires.Current crew have been essentially red circled as far remuneration is concerned.
"Access to the A380 with salary protection for current crew"....quote from the FAAA website
No one has mentioned that the A380 crew will have allocated rosters.ie no bid system.
The A380 will have its own slipping formula,regional(trips6 days or less) will have its own slipping formula,and the remaining destiantions will have another slipping formula.Three divisions based on slipping formula
What is the definitive source of your information?
Can you quote directly from the EBA document?
I have no problem with being corrected as long as the information comes from a reliable source.
QF will not have 4 classes and 450 pax...thats an absolute waste of a resource.
Borghetti, at a stategy,indicated 550 as have numerous media sources
The A380 will have A and B scale crew...Current and new hires.Current crew have been essentially red circled as far remuneration is concerned.
"Access to the A380 with salary protection for current crew"....quote from the FAAA website
No one has mentioned that the A380 crew will have allocated rosters.ie no bid system.
The A380 will have its own slipping formula,regional(trips6 days or less) will have its own slipping formula,and the remaining destiantions will have another slipping formula.Three divisions based on slipping formula
What is the definitive source of your information?
Can you quote directly from the EBA document?
I have no problem with being corrected as long as the information comes from a reliable source.
Last edited by DEFCON4; 5th Dec 2007 at 07:15.
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My Take on This
If you take out all the Destinations the A380 will service what do you have left? (currently)North/South flying(regional)..which the domestics have been doing.Then there are 3 other destiantions HNL SFO and BOM.
If you factor in the Offshore bases (LHR,AKL,BKK)which will comprise 25% of the total Australian and therefore will grow...Where will the new hires go?Apart from the A380 all the other flying is covered.So its a safe bet that they will fly the A380(almost)exclusively.
The new guys may not have a bid system on the A380 but current crew will.
Fluglegbiter...a lot of your assertions are only suppositions and semantic nitpicking.
Show me the source of the information you are sprouting as gospel.
Where Can I access it?
If you factor in the Offshore bases (LHR,AKL,BKK)which will comprise 25% of the total Australian and therefore will grow...Where will the new hires go?Apart from the A380 all the other flying is covered.So its a safe bet that they will fly the A380(almost)exclusively.
The new guys may not have a bid system on the A380 but current crew will.
Fluglegbiter...a lot of your assertions are only suppositions and semantic nitpicking.
Show me the source of the information you are sprouting as gospel.
Where Can I access it?
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Very Interesting
The A380 has been made deliberately unattractive to current LHCC.
Yet the Chief Pilot has stated that he requires dedicated/experienced CSMs to crew the blimp for at least a year.
I have not heard that current crew wishing to work on the thing will not have a bid system ...someones telling porkies.
Yet the Chief Pilot has stated that he requires dedicated/experienced CSMs to crew the blimp for at least a year.
I have not heard that current crew wishing to work on the thing will not have a bid system ...someones telling porkies.
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A380 will have a fair share roster system.
The New crew that fly in the non A380 world ie all other flying will also not have a bid system.
other than A380 flying which is a separate group completely, when current crew and new starts fly together, the exiting crew will bid for work on the current rules, the flying that is left over will then be fair shared with new crew.
No flights, slots or any other permutation will remove flying for new starters before current crew have bid for it based on seniority.
The New crew that fly in the non A380 world ie all other flying will also not have a bid system.
other than A380 flying which is a separate group completely, when current crew and new starts fly together, the exiting crew will bid for work on the current rules, the flying that is left over will then be fair shared with new crew.
No flights, slots or any other permutation will remove flying for new starters before current crew have bid for it based on seniority.
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DEFCON4
This is part of the A380 Press release issued on 24 July. You can view the entire release on the qantas website.
Introducing The Qantas A380 Latest News
Sydney, 24 July 2007
Qantas today unveiled the state-of-the-art interior and seating to be installed onboard its fleet of 20 Airbus A380 aircraft, which are scheduled for delivery from August 2008.
Qantas Executive General Manager John Borghetti said the airline's fleet would be configured with 450 seats - 14 in First, 72 in Business, 32 in its new Premium Economy cabin and 332 in Economy.
This is part of the A380 Press release issued on 24 July. You can view the entire release on the qantas website.
Introducing The Qantas A380 Latest News
Sydney, 24 July 2007
Qantas today unveiled the state-of-the-art interior and seating to be installed onboard its fleet of 20 Airbus A380 aircraft, which are scheduled for delivery from August 2008.
Qantas Executive General Manager John Borghetti said the airline's fleet would be configured with 450 seats - 14 in First, 72 in Business, 32 in its new Premium Economy cabin and 332 in Economy.
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roamingwolf
there is no bid system in the A380 group...but no one has to go over to that group if they dont wish.
i don't understand why people keep asking these questions on here and risk receiving wrong information.
Do as i did today, and go to an FAAA meeting.
i don't understand why people keep asking these questions on here and risk receiving wrong information.
Do as i did today, and go to an FAAA meeting.
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(Source: Qantas Press Release, Sydney, 24 July 2007)
That said, if you look at the Qantas A380 info page on their website, they say they will have 501 seats - that appears to be old information, though.
As to the question of where I got the rest of my information, a lot of it came directly from the union meeting I attended today. I'd recommend every flight attendant go to one.
"Access to the A380 with salary protection for current crew"....quote from the FAAA website
No one has mentioned that the A380 crew will have allocated rosters.ie no bid system.
No one has mentioned that the A380 crew will have allocated rosters.ie no bid system.
What is the definitive source of your information?
Can you quote directly from the EBA document?
Can you quote directly from the EBA document?
I think this EBA is an excellent outcome for the position we currently find ourselves in. It's a shame that we have to go down this path, but there are not any viable alternatives. A few weeks ago, we were all expecting to be asked to work higher hours, etc. With this EBA, we keep almost all of our conditions, with just a few minor inconveniences (regional slipping formula, no voting for extension of multi-sector duty, etc). These really are pretty minor in the broad scheme. Imagine how great it will be to finally have some fresh faces among us and probably some new destinations. And for junior crew it will be great to finally get a little more choice for bidding.
I'm a Y/C flight attendant. I've been flying for 10 years. For the last few years I have been losing hope of having any kind of future in this job, but this EBA has finally made me feel like there is some hope for us - that WE won't have to go backwards. We are lucky we started when we did, so will get to benefit from our original conditions. Unfortunately, that's not the way things are any more for other airline crew (see Jetstar, Virgin, Tiger, etc). It sux, but it's the way it is.
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I Stand Corrected...Apologies
1.450 seats is not much more than we have now....unbelievable
2.A "Fair Share Roster System"for ALL new starts not just the A380
3.No Bid System for Anyone(?)on the A380
4.Generous top ups for existing crew?
Who in their right mind and is currently a full time LHCC member would want to work on the A380?.A brand new product and no one with experience to work on it...those poor passengers.
My apologies folks I was under the impression my information was 100%correct.
It was not my intention to mislead anyone.
2.A "Fair Share Roster System"for ALL new starts not just the A380
3.No Bid System for Anyone(?)on the A380
4.Generous top ups for existing crew?
Who in their right mind and is currently a full time LHCC member would want to work on the A380?.A brand new product and no one with experience to work on it...those poor passengers.
My apologies folks I was under the impression my information was 100%correct.
It was not my intention to mislead anyone.