Mega Merged: Qantas Long Haul Cabin Crew Eba8 Negotiations
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All sounds very good for the Long Haul people but please think of what is likely to happen in 5 years time. Also I guess the new recruits on the low pay cant have a say at the moment so their feelings will not be known. I guess for many that 5 years will be long enough and you will be ready to give it away anyhow but in the meantime think about working with the new recruits on half of your hourly rate of pay. If QF hires as the have in the past the new ones will be just out of school airheads and will make up the numbers on the flights but how much work will they do and at what level of professionalism. It will be like on Short Haul flights now. You get on board and everyone wants to know if you are contract C or B and despite the best efforts of some of the full timers there is always that feeeling of resentment if you are MAM. It sure wont be the greatest enviorment to be working in. I know it will be said that you had no option to accept it or be decimated but it is a pity a little more thought had not been put into what will happen to those that come after you and what will happen to all the MAM people who rely on their income to survive. With the return of 75% of regional flying to Long Haul and as many MAM rosters mainly consist of regional flights what will happen to them. I guess it is payback time for the Short Haul staff who did the dirty on you over pay rates on the regional flying but over 1000 MAM people had nothing to do with that and they are the most likely to get hurt as well. I guess overall Dixon has got his way by looking after the Long Haul permanent people for 5 years and setting up a low paid F/A workforce but dont be surprised if he has a little else waiting somewhere along the way. I guess he always seems to hold the ace card.
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Originally Posted by RedTBar
New Regional slipping formula??????? So it looks like the company gets partially rid of the 1-1-2 formula.This could mean longer regional trips, Maybe??
Originally Posted by RedTBar
I saw somewhere else that the company has got the OK to increase the overseas bases by nearly 50% and this wasn’t in the faaa newsletter under changes.Is this true ?
The only difference is that it is now 25% of Aust base numbers rather than the fixed amount of 870.
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From Twiggs,The new slipping formula for regionals only applies to 6 day patterns or less with slip ports within 3 hours time zone change.
Is it 1-1-1 or less for 6 days?
The cap on overseas bases has been agreed by the company to be enforced, even though it is illegal under Howard workchoices.
The only difference is that it is now 25% of Aust base numbers rather than the fixed amount of 870.
The only difference is that it is now 25% of Aust base numbers rather than the fixed amount of 870.
The only difference is that there will be around 50% more overseas crew.
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No negativity here twiggs I'm only asking for details.Like most of us I'll be going to the meetings but the company has never been known for it's generosity.So I keep thinking where's the catch because I've been stung by the company before.
There is only one other group that thinks that asking questions is being negative and they work in that big building with a bus stop out the front.
There is only one other group that thinks that asking questions is being negative and they work in that big building with a bus stop out the front.
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to funbags and others
l/h f/a's here are protecting themselves with this agreement. is it moral/shortsighted?
each person has to make that decision for themselves.
e.g. pegasus 747 is looking after his family including his children and would be happy for his children to work under 'B' scale pay/conditions.... it would be interesting to see if his kids agree.
as to shortsighted, 'A' scale have at least 8 years ( 2 eba's) before they, 'b' have the numbers to take over the union and shaft us back, just like we have now shafted back at s/h re transfers. it is now every 'a' scale hosties duty to talk as many 'b' hosties out of ever joining the union, this way we will maintain control over them so that when i leave in 15 years i will have had a full career at full pay
l/h f/a's here are protecting themselves with this agreement. is it moral/shortsighted?
each person has to make that decision for themselves.
e.g. pegasus 747 is looking after his family including his children and would be happy for his children to work under 'B' scale pay/conditions.... it would be interesting to see if his kids agree.
as to shortsighted, 'A' scale have at least 8 years ( 2 eba's) before they, 'b' have the numbers to take over the union and shaft us back, just like we have now shafted back at s/h re transfers. it is now every 'a' scale hosties duty to talk as many 'b' hosties out of ever joining the union, this way we will maintain control over them so that when i leave in 15 years i will have had a full career at full pay
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The FAAA have done what they can to protect the jobs of their members and keep our t&c, that is their main task and that is what they have delivered.
They should not be concerned about MAM, they are not paid up members of the INTL FAAA.
I have been extremely critical of the FAAA officials on this forum, however they have done what they are supposed to do and that is protect US!
well done MM ( still think you should fly every now and then)
In 5 years time there will be trouble with the new recruits, they will have to fight their own battles with QF maybe then generation "Y" will understand the efforts of the previous flight attendants.
Overall, it seems a good deal.
They should not be concerned about MAM, they are not paid up members of the INTL FAAA.
I have been extremely critical of the FAAA officials on this forum, however they have done what they are supposed to do and that is protect US!
well done MM ( still think you should fly every now and then)
In 5 years time there will be trouble with the new recruits, they will have to fight their own battles with QF maybe then generation "Y" will understand the efforts of the previous flight attendants.
Overall, it seems a good deal.
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Originally Posted by RedTBar
Like most of us I'll be going to the meetings but the company has never been known for it's generosity.So I keep thinking where's the catch because I've been stung by the company before.
That is why we have faith in the current FAAA that they will ensure that as far as possible, there can be very little scope in the agreement for double meaning.
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Good on you twiggsy.....
That sounded just like one of those many political adverts we saw during the campaign....
Spoken by Twiggsy,authorised by Eden for the union, Sydney....
I noticed though that like most politicians and company spin doctors that you didn't answer any questions with your post.....
I didn't realise that the slipping formula had changed.Unless your embarrassed Twiggsy why don't you answer the question?
Cartexchange,I agree with you in that the union was caught between a rock and a hard place.
In real terms was there any other choice?
Unfortunately,because the negotiations were held behind closed doors we will never know....You just have to have trust ......
On another note is it true that the company has rejected the AIPA claim in regards to dispensation for the tech crew to operate AKL/LAX/AKL on the airbus?
That sounded just like one of those many political adverts we saw during the campaign....
Spoken by Twiggsy,authorised by Eden for the union, Sydney....
I noticed though that like most politicians and company spin doctors that you didn't answer any questions with your post.....
I didn't realise that the slipping formula had changed.Unless your embarrassed Twiggsy why don't you answer the question?
Cartexchange,I agree with you in that the union was caught between a rock and a hard place.
In real terms was there any other choice?
Unfortunately,because the negotiations were held behind closed doors we will never know....You just have to have trust ......
On another note is it true that the company has rejected the AIPA claim in regards to dispensation for the tech crew to operate AKL/LAX/AKL on the airbus?
Last edited by lowerlobe; 28th Nov 2007 at 05:29.
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The Usual Suspects
Well done MM and Co....an excellent result
As usual those who were critical of MM and his negotiation team are still
critical.
The "Usual Suspects" are still too lazy to call the FAAA and ask salient questions.
They would rather post post inane innuendo and circumspect crap.
It is small wonder that many outside(and inside) the aviation industry see CC as twits.
There will be no doubt the usual rubbish,spell checking and moronic repartee to follow from the "usual suspects"
As usual those who were critical of MM and his negotiation team are still
critical.
The "Usual Suspects" are still too lazy to call the FAAA and ask salient questions.
They would rather post post inane innuendo and circumspect crap.
It is small wonder that many outside(and inside) the aviation industry see CC as twits.
There will be no doubt the usual rubbish,spell checking and moronic repartee to follow from the "usual suspects"
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Sidelines
I have watched the QF CC forums for years and have always been amazed at how we attack each other.
Equally amazing is how badly we have been represented over the years:the McGraws,Smiths and Broomes.
Fortunately we have people like Mijatov and Reed,who because of their passion and intellect have produced an EBA that we can all be happy with.
Finally we have excellent,pragmatic representation.
Thank You Michael ,Steven and your negotiation team....Well Done!
Equally amazing is how badly we have been represented over the years:the McGraws,Smiths and Broomes.
Fortunately we have people like Mijatov and Reed,who because of their passion and intellect have produced an EBA that we can all be happy with.
Finally we have excellent,pragmatic representation.
Thank You Michael ,Steven and your negotiation team....Well Done!
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There will be no doubt the usual rubbish,spell checking and moronic repartee to follow from the "usual suspects"
Apart from a few pilots and maybe s/h I don't think there is anyone who would argue that it is a great result considering what the company and Dixon has said about us.
I think you are being a bit hard on some here.But anyone working for the company for more than 12 months would know how cynical we are of the company.This is like Satan giving us a get out of jail card if you know what I mean.
and defcon4 this post was done without any help from a spell checker too.
Thank You Michael ,Steven and your negotiation team....Well Done!
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SH Crew thoughts?
I think most LH crew are fairly positive about EBA8's outcomes although with some minor concerns. That is displayed by the previous posts in this forum.
As EBA8 appears to have a significant impact on SH regional flying, what is the general feeling amongst SH crew to the proposed agreement?
As EBA8 appears to have a significant impact on SH regional flying, what is the general feeling amongst SH crew to the proposed agreement?
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I have been expecting the SH union to put out some sort of newsletter, but so far nothing! Obviously this new LH EBA will see LH take a huge chunk of our flying.
Our next EBA negotiations are due to start in January. Who knows what will happen.
MAM casuals at SH are very well paid. If they take up the new LH 'B Scale' positions, they will get a permanent full-time job, but will take a huge salary reduction!!!
Our next EBA negotiations are due to start in January. Who knows what will happen.
MAM casuals at SH are very well paid. If they take up the new LH 'B Scale' positions, they will get a permanent full-time job, but will take a huge salary reduction!!!
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Our Flying...?
Domestics traditional flying is exactly that ...domestic.
The flying that Call Button alludes to is traditionally LongHaul....that is anything international.
Through an act of sheer bastardry a large chunk of LH traditional flying was stolen by the domestics.
The status quo is now being returned.
Quite frankly most LH CC could care less about the domestic reduction in flying.The domestic component of the QF group should be rebadged Jet Star and paid accordingly.
The flying that Call Button alludes to is traditionally LongHaul....that is anything international.
Through an act of sheer bastardry a large chunk of LH traditional flying was stolen by the domestics.
The status quo is now being returned.
Quite frankly most LH CC could care less about the domestic reduction in flying.The domestic component of the QF group should be rebadged Jet Star and paid accordingly.
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Call Button,
You have got to be kidding!!!!
LH taking a huge chunk out of our flying.
We use to have all regional flying until the shorthaul union stabbed us in the back. We are only taking back what is rightfully ours.
Get real call button.
You have got to be kidding!!!!
LH taking a huge chunk out of our flying.
We use to have all regional flying until the shorthaul union stabbed us in the back. We are only taking back what is rightfully ours.
Get real call button.
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That makes me think of something else.The press release said that all new cabin crew will be hired by this new company.
Does that mean S/H as well and the regionals too.
Then what happens to mam?
Is maurrie out of favor?
has Darth seen that MA makes a load of money from supplying casuals and now he wants to do it?
Does that mean S/H as well and the regionals too.
Then what happens to mam?
Is maurrie out of favor?
has Darth seen that MA makes a load of money from supplying casuals and now he wants to do it?
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I'm just taking an educated guess, but the reduction of shorthaul regional flying would leave a surplus of MAM casuals, who would get less call outs.
The only viable way they could remain flying would be applying to LH.
The advantages to QF would be minimal training, plus they would have a work history available . they know who they would want to keep.
The advantages to MAM is they would be now full time employees, with annual leave and other entitlements that they wouldn't have had, and if they are ambitious enough, they could be promoted after 4 years.
Really, I reckon they will be better off.
Question is, what will happen to any S/H who are waiting on the tranfer list? Will they have to work under these new conditions?
The only viable way they could remain flying would be applying to LH.
The advantages to QF would be minimal training, plus they would have a work history available . they know who they would want to keep.
The advantages to MAM is they would be now full time employees, with annual leave and other entitlements that they wouldn't have had, and if they are ambitious enough, they could be promoted after 4 years.
Really, I reckon they will be better off.
Question is, what will happen to any S/H who are waiting on the tranfer list? Will they have to work under these new conditions?