Mega Merged: Qantas Long Haul Cabin Crew Eba8 Negotiations
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my 2 cents
what are the proposed new slipping formulas in regional flying
voting under multi sector has been removed? please explain in detail. what are the maximum hours in case of delays?
are there any restirctions on current lh cabin crew numbers on the A380 or other aircraft?
why is it that only division 6 gets a super increase? is it because MM joined it early on?
what are the new conditions for qf cabin crew?
why would you agree to give BFA the chance to promote without ever going to work in Y/c? rationality behind?
i am sure there will be many more questions. lets start the ball rolling
voting under multi sector has been removed? please explain in detail. what are the maximum hours in case of delays?
are there any restirctions on current lh cabin crew numbers on the A380 or other aircraft?
why is it that only division 6 gets a super increase? is it because MM joined it early on?
what are the new conditions for qf cabin crew?
why would you agree to give BFA the chance to promote without ever going to work in Y/c? rationality behind?
i am sure there will be many more questions. lets start the ball rolling
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TO capt cynical not playing golf,,,,, and i said it was my last post on this thread, well miss cynic or what ever you call yourself dear! do not assume i am in v middle im only gigs with one g big ex pilot fella or what ever you are? why is this nonsense your pass time? even try a long walk its good for you! cheers gigs.
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Hey guys,
Instead of being angry and this whole LH vs SH thing. Maybe you should direct your anger towards those people who are non FAAA members, pay no subs and yet will receive all the benefits of this EBA (both in improved pay and conditions). They to me are the real enemy.
These people just sit back, watch, are not out of pocket and yet reap all the same benefits as a fully paid up FAAA member. I flew with a young girl recently (full time LH Syd based), who was bragging that she paid nothing and yet gained everything that the Union worked hard for.
Instead of being angry and this whole LH vs SH thing. Maybe you should direct your anger towards those people who are non FAAA members, pay no subs and yet will receive all the benefits of this EBA (both in improved pay and conditions). They to me are the real enemy.
These people just sit back, watch, are not out of pocket and yet reap all the same benefits as a fully paid up FAAA member. I flew with a young girl recently (full time LH Syd based), who was bragging that she paid nothing and yet gained everything that the Union worked hard for.
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fun bags, you are correct! those people are leeches or parasites but there is nothing that can be done about them! there is no way of identifying them! so we can do nothing about them! they have no morals!
Gigs you really are an embarrassment, have you ever thought of re-sitting your primary school years at TAFE, if possible
we also have great "English as a second language" courses available,maybe you should enrol.
I don't know what your main language is but your posts are illegible!
Speed bird you're correct in what you say, but I think you mean sit at R2 and L2 that is the "read my novel" position whilst Y/C slog it out!
Gigs you really are an embarrassment, have you ever thought of re-sitting your primary school years at TAFE, if possible
we also have great "English as a second language" courses available,maybe you should enrol.
I don't know what your main language is but your posts are illegible!
Speed bird you're correct in what you say, but I think you mean sit at R2 and L2 that is the "read my novel" position whilst Y/C slog it out!
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In relation to the "non" members...you would be surprised at the identity of some of these people including some of the "old guard" of the union including three past presidents and some of the last officials and their supporters.
I am aware that hypocritically some of these people are running a muck campaign now about the EBA outcome and suggesting that they will use it as a platform for future FAAA elections.
I am sure that the members cant wait to show them that that parasitical behaviour that almost borders on obscenity will be appropriately rewarded if they are identified and stick their heads up again
I am aware that hypocritically some of these people are running a muck campaign now about the EBA outcome and suggesting that they will use it as a platform for future FAAA elections.
I am sure that the members cant wait to show them that that parasitical behaviour that almost borders on obscenity will be appropriately rewarded if they are identified and stick their heads up again
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not into golf either carttyy girl well good on yah! and thanx for your support,, you have mine though as i am an faaa member ..... sorry last post on this thread for me so car tie and capt. cardy go for it and spend all that energy on typing nonsense to entertain. cheers gigs
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English?
Gigs, what are you saying? I do not understand your posts. Quick basic English lesson:
1. A new sentence begins with a capital letter.
2. A sentence ends with a full stop.
3. Commas can be used to separate clauses and to make your message clearer.
4. Spelling checkers can help correct spelling mistakes and typos.
Geeez! Could people please take more care with their posts!
1. A new sentence begins with a capital letter.
2. A sentence ends with a full stop.
3. Commas can be used to separate clauses and to make your message clearer.
4. Spelling checkers can help correct spelling mistakes and typos.
Geeez! Could people please take more care with their posts!
giggerish
Lobey, bring out the fire hose please,I DON't want another "last post"
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how much will a new FA be paid?
Hola,
So how much can a new FA working on A380/b787 expect to earn as base salary and how many hours will he/she be expected to work with how much crew rest????Anybody know?Will they pay loadings???
Thanx
So how much can a new FA working on A380/b787 expect to earn as base salary and how many hours will he/she be expected to work with how much crew rest????Anybody know?Will they pay loadings???
Thanx
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I think it would make more sense if we considered that rather than expressing new entrants as a B scale that we looked at ourselves as having been quarantined or red circled except that we get ongoing pay rises.
Qantas will not employ new crew in Australia on existing conditions. This has been demonstrated by new recruitment except for MAM casuals, and overseas based recruitment for a number of years.
If crew vote to accept the protections for existing crew, then Qantas will embark on a massive growth program for long haul with about 2000 full time jobs being created on what will be viewed and quality airline jobs on salaries significantly higher than Jetstar International with significantly improved other benefits.
Qantas will be swamped with applications and I envisage that many of those crew in New Zealand and those that are casual employees looking for full time job will be given some sort of preference.
In return for Long Haul crew agreeing to these changes there will be unprecedented opportunities for promotions, new aircraft etc.
The 787 and all new aircraft will be flown by long haul crew when flown internationally. New crew will sit underneath us in our bid system and will be allocated work after us instead of having it withdrawn first as happens now with the overseas based crew.
For the A380, crew who choose to fly that aircraft will only fly the A380 and not other aircraft and long haul crew can choose to go to A380 fleet on the new work rules there, but will salary protection.
FAAA has just announced over 20 meetings . It would be sensible for crew to attend and get a more complete understanding of the protections and growth that the proposed EBA offers.
Qantas will not employ new crew in Australia on existing conditions. This has been demonstrated by new recruitment except for MAM casuals, and overseas based recruitment for a number of years.
If crew vote to accept the protections for existing crew, then Qantas will embark on a massive growth program for long haul with about 2000 full time jobs being created on what will be viewed and quality airline jobs on salaries significantly higher than Jetstar International with significantly improved other benefits.
Qantas will be swamped with applications and I envisage that many of those crew in New Zealand and those that are casual employees looking for full time job will be given some sort of preference.
In return for Long Haul crew agreeing to these changes there will be unprecedented opportunities for promotions, new aircraft etc.
The 787 and all new aircraft will be flown by long haul crew when flown internationally. New crew will sit underneath us in our bid system and will be allocated work after us instead of having it withdrawn first as happens now with the overseas based crew.
For the A380, crew who choose to fly that aircraft will only fly the A380 and not other aircraft and long haul crew can choose to go to A380 fleet on the new work rules there, but will salary protection.
FAAA has just announced over 20 meetings . It would be sensible for crew to attend and get a more complete understanding of the protections and growth that the proposed EBA offers.
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capt.cynical......
Don't look at me as this is all Shane Warnes fault.He has turned texting into a religion to every woman under the age of 300!
Gigs....I have seen one or two of your posts that show you can use reasonable English and not Textlish....If you did then your posts would be more credible.Give it a go.....
Pegasus ..just a thought or two and since I can't ring the bunker office I thought I'd ask you some questions.
First,If the A380 is going to have a dedicated crew what will be the selection process for those existing crew who might want to fly on it?
Secondly,If any existing crew apply and are red circled pay wise.Will they be paid for the extra hours if as you say they will have to work the new work rules?
Third,What is the new regional slipping formula?
Don't look at me as this is all Shane Warnes fault.He has turned texting into a religion to every woman under the age of 300!
Gigs....I have seen one or two of your posts that show you can use reasonable English and not Textlish....If you did then your posts would be more credible.Give it a go.....
Pegasus ..just a thought or two and since I can't ring the bunker office I thought I'd ask you some questions.
First,If the A380 is going to have a dedicated crew what will be the selection process for those existing crew who might want to fly on it?
Secondly,If any existing crew apply and are red circled pay wise.Will they be paid for the extra hours if as you say they will have to work the new work rules?
Third,What is the new regional slipping formula?
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Exiting Long Haul crew that want to go to the A380 Division will be able to do so during start up (approx 2 years /4 A/c) then if they want to stay they can or return to our world.
The A380 work rules will essentially model the london rules. except overtime will be payable after 12 hours in a duty like us and additional hours will be paid over 240. crew will average about 220 hours a roster in A380 and may be less depending on schedule etc.. london crew currently work about 210.
Crew going over will have salary maintenance and the top up amounts will be outlined in the new EBA for for all ranks i think it looks pretty ok. Plus they will get our meal allowance formula and cash allowances like us.
initially the company would like 100% CSM and CSS for A380 to come from our world and if they cant get them to transfer over they will offer promotions in A380 to existing Long Haul crew b4 looking elsewhere.
At start up they want about 20% of the flight attendant category to come from the existing crew and then recruit new hires on the new rates of pay to offset the addtional cost of the salary protected long haul crew.
After 2 years crew that go over to A380 will be able to come back or choose to stay in A380. Ongoing post start up 20% of current long haul crew will be able to go to A380 on Salary protected conditions. also if they are promoted in A380 they continue to get the salary protections based on current long Haul conditions.
essentially any current long haul crew member that either goes to A380 and gets promoted, or get promoted directly from our world to A380 in a promoted position will get salary maintenance arrangements.
if the number of crew that want to go over is greater than the numbers required then a merit selection process will take place.
In respect to the regional slipping formula it will only apply to patterns of 6 days or less bounded by a 3 hour time change of sydney. hawaii and India are out. Any port outside of the three hour rule will activate the standard 1;1;2 which is a minimum planned 70 hours rest over 3 slips effectively. Any pattern planned in excess of 6 days will also attract the 1.1.2 formula.
the new regional formual of planned rest must have a MINUMUM of 50 hours rest in any three slips standing alone. Currently short haul do it wil 36 hours standing alone.
Of course the minimum rest provsions have not changed and you which are night hours plus planned flight - Min 12 max 20 rule applies. Most Asian patterns are straight up, slip and then back, but there will be some that are not and to those the new regional formula will apply.
the New formula was essential in the negotiations in order to get the Regional Flying Back or it would have stayed where it currently resides
Hope this answers the questions and obviously crew should attend one of the 20 or so meetings being run by the FAAA or company meetings to get further intricate detail
The A380 work rules will essentially model the london rules. except overtime will be payable after 12 hours in a duty like us and additional hours will be paid over 240. crew will average about 220 hours a roster in A380 and may be less depending on schedule etc.. london crew currently work about 210.
Crew going over will have salary maintenance and the top up amounts will be outlined in the new EBA for for all ranks i think it looks pretty ok. Plus they will get our meal allowance formula and cash allowances like us.
initially the company would like 100% CSM and CSS for A380 to come from our world and if they cant get them to transfer over they will offer promotions in A380 to existing Long Haul crew b4 looking elsewhere.
At start up they want about 20% of the flight attendant category to come from the existing crew and then recruit new hires on the new rates of pay to offset the addtional cost of the salary protected long haul crew.
After 2 years crew that go over to A380 will be able to come back or choose to stay in A380. Ongoing post start up 20% of current long haul crew will be able to go to A380 on Salary protected conditions. also if they are promoted in A380 they continue to get the salary protections based on current long Haul conditions.
essentially any current long haul crew member that either goes to A380 and gets promoted, or get promoted directly from our world to A380 in a promoted position will get salary maintenance arrangements.
if the number of crew that want to go over is greater than the numbers required then a merit selection process will take place.
In respect to the regional slipping formula it will only apply to patterns of 6 days or less bounded by a 3 hour time change of sydney. hawaii and India are out. Any port outside of the three hour rule will activate the standard 1;1;2 which is a minimum planned 70 hours rest over 3 slips effectively. Any pattern planned in excess of 6 days will also attract the 1.1.2 formula.
the new regional formual of planned rest must have a MINUMUM of 50 hours rest in any three slips standing alone. Currently short haul do it wil 36 hours standing alone.
Of course the minimum rest provsions have not changed and you which are night hours plus planned flight - Min 12 max 20 rule applies. Most Asian patterns are straight up, slip and then back, but there will be some that are not and to those the new regional formula will apply.
the New formula was essential in the negotiations in order to get the Regional Flying Back or it would have stayed where it currently resides
Hope this answers the questions and obviously crew should attend one of the 20 or so meetings being run by the FAAA or company meetings to get further intricate detail
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Midnight 63
Midnight quotes
Ah that's nice and cosy. You scratch mine and I will scratch yours and f@#$ the rest of them
how dare you even try and make such an accusation, you of all people who scurried in the midnight hours in 2004 along with all the other str1kebre@kers, then went and worked in AKL to further undermine our conditions, of all the things I have seen on here your posts really offends the whole core of our industry, I say again how dare you try and pass any moral judgment on anyone in here.
The FAAA have done what they can to protect our jobs and secure our future, that is their function and they have performed well.
We have long memories midnight!
Ah that's nice and cosy. You scratch mine and I will scratch yours and f@#$ the rest of them
how dare you even try and make such an accusation, you of all people who scurried in the midnight hours in 2004 along with all the other str1kebre@kers, then went and worked in AKL to further undermine our conditions, of all the things I have seen on here your posts really offends the whole core of our industry, I say again how dare you try and pass any moral judgment on anyone in here.
The FAAA have done what they can to protect our jobs and secure our future, that is their function and they have performed well.
We have long memories midnight!
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chemical alli,if you want to talk about attitude how about talking about the vote to let second officers to be based in singapore for a lot less than Australian second officers.
if that is not an I'm allright jack look after yourself then i don't know what is.
How about the previous 400 guys on the union giving the nod to a pub in brisbane that they would never stay at and only the 767 drivers would.
it's allright for you guys but you have a lot more to argue with than we do.
it annoys me too but then what else could we do.Short haul sold us out and we have to put up with bases like bkk and akl who work for a lot less than us.
This is really giving us a chance to fight another day but if we kept going what then.
if that is not an I'm allright jack look after yourself then i don't know what is.
How about the previous 400 guys on the union giving the nod to a pub in brisbane that they would never stay at and only the 767 drivers would.
it's allright for you guys but you have a lot more to argue with than we do.
it annoys me too but then what else could we do.Short haul sold us out and we have to put up with bases like bkk and akl who work for a lot less than us.
This is really giving us a chance to fight another day but if we kept going what then.
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I agree 100% with you OCCR.
Midnight, you are really a piece of work, you undermined our conditions by training up as a st1kebre@ker and now you seem to be a little upset that you may not be able to come back to Oz under our old award.
There's nothing stopping you from coming back as a Mam, I believe Lisa R did it, I wouldn't be suprised if you did a little moonlighting with her with as you do call yourself Midnight .
It is not an AWA, but collective bargaining, you don't seem to grasp the fundamentals of industrial relations policies.
And to chemical alli, " screw the newbies", for your information there have been no Australian based newbies for several years, just a constant expansion of overseas bases. With junior crew getting low lines and ordinary rosters. At least now there is some hope that we will see full time Australia jobs established.
Our esteemed SH colleagues set the standard several years ago , when they effectively sold out to Qantas, no band payments became the norm for new SH crew and Mam casuals took off. anyone who transferred from LH to SH got shafted.
This appears to be one of the only avenues available to us to address the imbalance that has occurred over the years.
At least now there will be newbies
Midnight, you are really a piece of work, you undermined our conditions by training up as a st1kebre@ker and now you seem to be a little upset that you may not be able to come back to Oz under our old award.
There's nothing stopping you from coming back as a Mam, I believe Lisa R did it, I wouldn't be suprised if you did a little moonlighting with her with as you do call yourself Midnight .
It is not an AWA, but collective bargaining, you don't seem to grasp the fundamentals of industrial relations policies.
And to chemical alli, " screw the newbies", for your information there have been no Australian based newbies for several years, just a constant expansion of overseas bases. With junior crew getting low lines and ordinary rosters. At least now there is some hope that we will see full time Australia jobs established.
Our esteemed SH colleagues set the standard several years ago , when they effectively sold out to Qantas, no band payments became the norm for new SH crew and Mam casuals took off. anyone who transferred from LH to SH got shafted.
This appears to be one of the only avenues available to us to address the imbalance that has occurred over the years.
At least now there will be newbies
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A380..The Elite Fleet
The A380 will most likely fly to LAX,JNB,LHR and possibly FRA.The other destinations will be serviced by 744s,the Airbus A330 and eventually the 787.
So...we all have to make a decision...but we have two years to make it.... permanent.
As long as the West Coast of America is still accessible through SFO the A380 will continue to remain a mystery.
All in all quite a good EBA...growth, promotion opportunies, maintenance of salary and conditions and the return of a large chunk of regional flying.
An excellent piece of negotiation.
Dixon goes after the Olympics(the only reason he is staying)
Now if the Black Widow would only retire..........
What a wonderful world it would be.......oh yeah
So...we all have to make a decision...but we have two years to make it.... permanent.
As long as the West Coast of America is still accessible through SFO the A380 will continue to remain a mystery.
All in all quite a good EBA...growth, promotion opportunies, maintenance of salary and conditions and the return of a large chunk of regional flying.
An excellent piece of negotiation.
Dixon goes after the Olympics(the only reason he is staying)
Now if the Black Widow would only retire..........
What a wonderful world it would be.......oh yeah
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Originally Posted by OCCR
how dare you try and pass any moral judgment on anyone in here...
Originally Posted by RedTBar
This is really giving us a chance to fight another day...
Originally Posted by left4primary
At least now there is some hope that we will see full time Australia jobs...
Originally Posted by DEFCON4
An excellent piece of negotiation...
Hear hear!!!!
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Mm Continues To Deliver
30 November 2007 ID79-07
Attention all Qantas Long Haul Flight Attendants
PROMOTIONS FOR CSM AND CSS
We announced that as a result of the EBA negotiations and the proposed in-principle agreement that a number of Onboard Manager promotions would occur. The first of these promotions are being announced by the Company today.
You will find details on the CIS screen and also on the Cabin Crew Web Site. Details of numbers and bases are not known at this stage but if you are interested in applying for these positions that will be on current rates of pay and conditions, as will all promotions for existing crew, following the vote on the proposed EBA, please contact your CCM or CCTM or follow the directions as advertised by the Company
Written by Steven Reed – President International Division
and authorised by Michael Mijatov – Secretary International Division
20 Ewan Street Mascot NSW 2020 Tel 61 2 8337 1111 Fax 61 2 8337 1122 Emergency Contact 0414 894 192 www.faaa.net
Attention all Qantas Long Haul Flight Attendants
PROMOTIONS FOR CSM AND CSS
We announced that as a result of the EBA negotiations and the proposed in-principle agreement that a number of Onboard Manager promotions would occur. The first of these promotions are being announced by the Company today.
You will find details on the CIS screen and also on the Cabin Crew Web Site. Details of numbers and bases are not known at this stage but if you are interested in applying for these positions that will be on current rates of pay and conditions, as will all promotions for existing crew, following the vote on the proposed EBA, please contact your CCM or CCTM or follow the directions as advertised by the Company
Written by Steven Reed – President International Division
and authorised by Michael Mijatov – Secretary International Division
20 Ewan Street Mascot NSW 2020 Tel 61 2 8337 1111 Fax 61 2 8337 1122 Emergency Contact 0414 894 192 www.faaa.net