Mega Merged: Qantas Long Haul Cabin Crew Eba8 Negotiations
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'Our Flying'
Yes SH has been doing regional flying for a few years. Further back than that is ancient history. And yes currently HKG NRT SIN PEK MNL PVG BOM CGK ect are all ports that we currently fly to.
And5678 asked for SH crew thoughts, so I posted my thoughts.
Yes SH has been doing regional flying for a few years. Further back than that is ancient history. And yes currently HKG NRT SIN PEK MNL PVG BOM CGK ect are all ports that we currently fly to.
And5678 asked for SH crew thoughts, so I posted my thoughts.
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QUOTE by RedTBar " That makes me think of something else.The press release said that all new cabin crew will be hired by this new company.
Does that mean S/H as well and the regionals too."
As far as the QFLink regionals are concerned being paid jetstar rates of pay like the long haul B scale would be a pay increase, not by that much but a pay increase.
Does that mean S/H as well and the regionals too."
As far as the QFLink regionals are concerned being paid jetstar rates of pay like the long haul B scale would be a pay increase, not by that much but a pay increase.
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Call Button Kharma
Enjoy those destinations you quoted while you can ....they are about to be returned to their rightfull owners......LH CC.
The Libs get routed
Howard loses his seat
We get our flying back.......it doesnt get any better than this
The Libs get routed
Howard loses his seat
We get our flying back.......it doesnt get any better than this
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I'm with you there Speedbirdhouse,
The new EBA is just balancing out what should have been in the first place. The Pendulum is just swinging back to where it should be. Hopefully with the new Rudd government, the IR laws will be "ancient history " as well.
The new EBA is just balancing out what should have been in the first place. The Pendulum is just swinging back to where it should be. Hopefully with the new Rudd government, the IR laws will be "ancient history " as well.
Folks,
I don't really think this new EBA is all that positive. It's great that they have announced AUS jobs to be protected but with the new subsidiary company I think it will cause detriment to the current Long Haulers. Just look at what happened in Shorthaul with MAM causals being employed- they mysteriously get blocked with some very good trips(The ones that involve band payments) and a Full timer with 20 years exp can't even get some of those high hour ( band payment) trips. Cos its cheaper for a MAM casual to work the weekends!
I don't really think this new EBA is all that positive. It's great that they have announced AUS jobs to be protected but with the new subsidiary company I think it will cause detriment to the current Long Haulers. Just look at what happened in Shorthaul with MAM causals being employed- they mysteriously get blocked with some very good trips(The ones that involve band payments) and a Full timer with 20 years exp can't even get some of those high hour ( band payment) trips. Cos its cheaper for a MAM casual to work the weekends!
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Domestics...Bent Over
Domestic FAs were done over not by the company but by their union president,secretary and industrial officer.
The fact is MM SR and the industrial team are all on the same page.
Domestics got screwed..... with no KY....live with it...you got what you deserve!!
The fact is MM SR and the industrial team are all on the same page.
Domestics got screwed..... with no KY....live with it...you got what you deserve!!
Thread Starter
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EBA8
When i initiated this thread 3 months ago i expected that there would be substantial activity, and i see my view has been vindicated.
Guys i'll make several comments;-
1) The FAAA always knew what it's major objectives were
2) This result is not due to any "magic" or goodwill from Qantas. It is completely due to hard work and competence. It is also due to the fact that the FAAA International leadership is taken very seriously by QF.
3) For anyone who thinks this is because Kevin Rudd won, think again.... this agreement was secured before the election result. More about this aspect will be discussed at the FAAA meetings.
4) This is the best result in the FAAA's history....... it is even more remarkable in light of the obstacles confronting the negotiating team
5) The extent of reversal of fortune for Long Haul cabin crew cannot be overstated. Just look at the massive growth and promotion that is about to occur.
6) The extent of the achievement of this EBA will only become apparent as its implications begin to sink in with our crew.
Finally, MM and his negotiating team can hold their heads high...... they secured International Flying, whilst resisting any temptation to grab domestic flying. Believe me..... they could have grabbed that too.
Those short haul crew asking.... "what happens to existing S/H crew who might at some time in the future , transfer to L/H....." the answer is...you will come over the nearest existing salary point in L/H.
Unlike S/H officials who didn't bother to think about L/H crew when it came to their revised band payments emanating from their EBA6..... MM SR and LL have made sure that existing S/H crew will not go onto the lower or "B" scale rate of pay.
I hope the above points help people with their discussions in here.
I also hope that most in here realise that when i post in here..it is always totally accurate
Enjoy the discourse in here guys, but make sure you all attend the FAAA meetings which will be announced tomorow. Only then will you have full, accurate and reliable information.
Guys i'll make several comments;-
1) The FAAA always knew what it's major objectives were
2) This result is not due to any "magic" or goodwill from Qantas. It is completely due to hard work and competence. It is also due to the fact that the FAAA International leadership is taken very seriously by QF.
3) For anyone who thinks this is because Kevin Rudd won, think again.... this agreement was secured before the election result. More about this aspect will be discussed at the FAAA meetings.
4) This is the best result in the FAAA's history....... it is even more remarkable in light of the obstacles confronting the negotiating team
5) The extent of reversal of fortune for Long Haul cabin crew cannot be overstated. Just look at the massive growth and promotion that is about to occur.
6) The extent of the achievement of this EBA will only become apparent as its implications begin to sink in with our crew.
Finally, MM and his negotiating team can hold their heads high...... they secured International Flying, whilst resisting any temptation to grab domestic flying. Believe me..... they could have grabbed that too.
Those short haul crew asking.... "what happens to existing S/H crew who might at some time in the future , transfer to L/H....." the answer is...you will come over the nearest existing salary point in L/H.
Unlike S/H officials who didn't bother to think about L/H crew when it came to their revised band payments emanating from their EBA6..... MM SR and LL have made sure that existing S/H crew will not go onto the lower or "B" scale rate of pay.
I hope the above points help people with their discussions in here.
I also hope that most in here realise that when i post in here..it is always totally accurate
Enjoy the discourse in here guys, but make sure you all attend the FAAA meetings which will be announced tomorow. Only then will you have full, accurate and reliable information.
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Domestic vs. Longhaul
The above post from Guardian emphasizes the fundamental differences between the two divisions...honesty,integrity and credibility.LH have these qualities in spades....domestics think those three words are sanskrit.
Last edited by surfside6; 28th Nov 2007 at 21:01.
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To Guardian1,
I appreciate all the hard work that the FAAA has put in, the efforts of the the negotiation team should be praised.
But to say Kevin Rudd had nothing to do with it and that EBA8 was already a done deal before the election is an insult to the Labor party.
I rememeber attending the FAAA meeting in LA, where MM & SR said that they had taken the new IR laws to an independant IR lawyer and he said that if Howard got back in we were screwed, and how the FAAA were saying vote out the IR laws, vote out the Liberals.
Well we did just that. QF management are cunning bastards, they could see the writing on the wall. As much as I admire MM, SR and the team that negotiated a very difficult EBA8, please, don't dismiss what a new government has helped in achieving this historic outcome.
I appreciate all the hard work that the FAAA has put in, the efforts of the the negotiation team should be praised.
But to say Kevin Rudd had nothing to do with it and that EBA8 was already a done deal before the election is an insult to the Labor party.
I rememeber attending the FAAA meeting in LA, where MM & SR said that they had taken the new IR laws to an independant IR lawyer and he said that if Howard got back in we were screwed, and how the FAAA were saying vote out the IR laws, vote out the Liberals.
Well we did just that. QF management are cunning bastards, they could see the writing on the wall. As much as I admire MM, SR and the team that negotiated a very difficult EBA8, please, don't dismiss what a new government has helped in achieving this historic outcome.
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Hey there all
Im just another one of those long time readers that suddenly got the urge to register to contribute something to this discussion.
Firstly, I would really like to congratulate all the L/H CC on their EBA.
It really must be a relief to have the company suddenly show some semblance of respect to a workforce that has had its morale decimated in recent times. You guys deserve a break and im glad you got it.
I am a S/H FA and i can appreciate the need of some of you to vent. It must have been totally infuriating seeing your traditional flying being redistributed.
All i want to say is that the typical rank and file S/H FA would not have been complicit in that arrangement. We were all following (rightly or wrongly) our unions directive. Remember we had a huge intake of new crew about the same time as THAT EBA got voted up which caused alot of consternation amongst LH CC. Basically, you guys are getting back what was rightfully yours ...but just remember we are all in the same boat. Things change overnight in this game .... we need to stick together with a common goal of being a strong united work force. I always show my LH CC colleagues the respect they deserve on my flights but im starting to see alot of attitude seeping through. Guys, we need to really stop this cr@p.
We need to get along!!
Anyway, ive got that off my chest, so well done to the LH FAAA and I hope this strategy works out well for ALL the different crew we have working amongst us.
Cheers
Im just another one of those long time readers that suddenly got the urge to register to contribute something to this discussion.
Firstly, I would really like to congratulate all the L/H CC on their EBA.
It really must be a relief to have the company suddenly show some semblance of respect to a workforce that has had its morale decimated in recent times. You guys deserve a break and im glad you got it.
I am a S/H FA and i can appreciate the need of some of you to vent. It must have been totally infuriating seeing your traditional flying being redistributed.
All i want to say is that the typical rank and file S/H FA would not have been complicit in that arrangement. We were all following (rightly or wrongly) our unions directive. Remember we had a huge intake of new crew about the same time as THAT EBA got voted up which caused alot of consternation amongst LH CC. Basically, you guys are getting back what was rightfully yours ...but just remember we are all in the same boat. Things change overnight in this game .... we need to stick together with a common goal of being a strong united work force. I always show my LH CC colleagues the respect they deserve on my flights but im starting to see alot of attitude seeping through. Guys, we need to really stop this cr@p.
We need to get along!!
Anyway, ive got that off my chest, so well done to the LH FAAA and I hope this strategy works out well for ALL the different crew we have working amongst us.
Cheers
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I am really dissapointed in some posts here regarding s/h crew..................as a FA of over 25 years I have never meet a s/h or l/h crew member who has never been polite or rude to a fellow crew member but some of the comments here i find childish and selfish.
It really doesnt matter in the end who gets what flying............we are all the same and we should all look out for one another and not get caught in petty thoughts about who gets what.
When paxing on a flight whether s/h or l/h crewing it I have always found the crew to be great and look after both me and my family..............dont put either division down they are both filled with great people.
It really doesnt matter in the end who gets what flying............we are all the same and we should all look out for one another and not get caught in petty thoughts about who gets what.
When paxing on a flight whether s/h or l/h crewing it I have always found the crew to be great and look after both me and my family..............dont put either division down they are both filled with great people.
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galley Hag
Sadly you are mistaken, without this EBA there is no future generation of Long Haul flight attendants. All the jobs were being made gradually redundant and sent overseas or made casual by the short haul divsion.
This is the start of fight back....full time jobs in long haul... a decent wage and market conditions about the same hours worked by Short haul..maybe a little less perhaps but a base to grow from.
This cannot be achieved if the jobs arent here in Australia
Sadly you are mistaken, without this EBA there is no future generation of Long Haul flight attendants. All the jobs were being made gradually redundant and sent overseas or made casual by the short haul divsion.
This is the start of fight back....full time jobs in long haul... a decent wage and market conditions about the same hours worked by Short haul..maybe a little less perhaps but a base to grow from.
This cannot be achieved if the jobs arent here in Australia
Nunc est bibendum
Rather than this being the start of the 'fightback', what if it's actually QF getting a stalemate in the penultimate battle but setting themselves up very nicely to win the war. Someone much smarter than me thought up the following scenario for what may occur in 3-5 years time.
That light at the end of the tunnel could very likely be an oncoming train! 
Sounds like they’ve sold their souls for CPI, a Superannuation sweetener & a before tax “bonus” of 3000 pieces of silver! They’ll have no one to blame but themselves when, a few years down track, the following scenario has unfolded:
The ratio of the more fortunate “old guard” to the newer less fortunate has changed. The bitterness and divisiveness of a significant B Scale has festered away for a few years now. The initial novelty of being a new flight attendant has truly worn off.
They feel that they are overworked and underpaid – at least compared to those other more fortunate, truly understanding, empathetic original FAs. A new EBA is up for negotiation. The Company offers the lower pay scale plus enough of a sweetener to get the majority (now the less fortunate) to vote yes.
Ipso facto, the EBA gets up and all FA’s are now on J* style conditions. What a magnificent coup! One has to appreciate the Machiavellian brilliance of this medium term play.
The ratio of the more fortunate “old guard” to the newer less fortunate has changed. The bitterness and divisiveness of a significant B Scale has festered away for a few years now. The initial novelty of being a new flight attendant has truly worn off.
They feel that they are overworked and underpaid – at least compared to those other more fortunate, truly understanding, empathetic original FAs. A new EBA is up for negotiation. The Company offers the lower pay scale plus enough of a sweetener to get the majority (now the less fortunate) to vote yes.
Ipso facto, the EBA gets up and all FA’s are now on J* style conditions. What a magnificent coup! One has to appreciate the Machiavellian brilliance of this medium term play.
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What Keg mentioned above seems possible but someone on this forum may know exactly but doesnt British Airways have a B scale and have had one for quite some time??
Maybe we should see how they are going before we start predicting a doomsday scenario!! Maybe crew are working side by side harmoniously. (one can live in hope!!)
Maybe we should see how they are going before we start predicting a doomsday scenario!! Maybe crew are working side by side harmoniously. (one can live in hope!!)
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B Scales are a fact of life in the airline industry...in british airways in the american airlines cathay pacific and in pilots areas around the world.
Just as superannuation schemes were sealed off and new schemes for new entrants were offered so too do some pay and condition issues.
This is crew accepting that the conditions that they get are welll deserved but unsustainable for growth. No long haul crew have been hired for years. the only growth has been in cabin crew areas with productivity around the level of the new entrant rate.
If Qantas have trouble filling the positions i would be very surprised the conndtions are superior to Jetstar INternational (significantly) wait till the full details are revealed.
Just as superannuation schemes were sealed off and new schemes for new entrants were offered so too do some pay and condition issues.
This is crew accepting that the conditions that they get are welll deserved but unsustainable for growth. No long haul crew have been hired for years. the only growth has been in cabin crew areas with productivity around the level of the new entrant rate.
If Qantas have trouble filling the positions i would be very surprised the conndtions are superior to Jetstar INternational (significantly) wait till the full details are revealed.
