Mega Merged: Qantas Long Haul Cabin Crew Eba8 Negotiations
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Not quite Lobe. A pilot that takes a promotion to Shorthaul as a Captain, go onto year 1 pay. But after 36 months they are on the same payscale as everyone else. That will not happen in this case.
Also, there is no difference in work rules. That is not a "B" scale.
I do believe you are just ill informed and not trying to play down the immoral thing that the FAAA is trying to do. We live and learn.
Also, there is no difference in work rules. That is not a "B" scale.
I do believe you are just ill informed and not trying to play down the immoral thing that the FAAA is trying to do. We live and learn.
There was a "B" scale in SH with the emphasis on was!
It was cleverly introduced by QF before AIPA had coverage of the SH Award back in '94, early '95 from memory. I believe it has since and finally been removed from the CA.
The analogy with the current CC EBA is weak at best!
It was cleverly introduced by QF before AIPA had coverage of the SH Award back in '94, early '95 from memory. I believe it has since and finally been removed from the CA.
The analogy with the current CC EBA is weak at best!
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Samford. What will a vote determine? If it's immoral? That's not what your saying, is it?
If this gets up, you guys will know NO FUTURE beyond 5 years. Better make it count.
I take it back. I do care what happens to LH flight attendants.
If this gets up, you guys will know NO FUTURE beyond 5 years. Better make it count.
I take it back. I do care what happens to LH flight attendants.
Last edited by I'm Driving; 27th Nov 2007 at 05:29.
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a few qns.
what is the revised regional slip formula?
what exactly is meant by access to the A380?
will 'B' scale have their own bid system? (re reported probs with current system)
will 'B' scale crew be like the akl crew re fatigue?
p.s. galleyhag
re comment a 'stronger collective group'...we will now have 2 groups in oz,
different pay, different hours.
is there now NO LIMIT on duty hours as a result of delays?
anyone with a number after your name is welcome to reply
what is the revised regional slip formula?
what exactly is meant by access to the A380?
will 'B' scale have their own bid system? (re reported probs with current system)
will 'B' scale crew be like the akl crew re fatigue?
p.s. galleyhag
re comment a 'stronger collective group'...we will now have 2 groups in oz,
different pay, different hours.
is there now NO LIMIT on duty hours as a result of delays?
anyone with a number after your name is welcome to reply
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Cut rate crew for Qantas - Thin edge of the wedge?
Scott Rochfort
SMH
November 27, 2007 - 4:01PM
Qantas has confirmed it plans to hire 2000 international flight attendants on substantially lower rates of pay over the next three years, after striking a deal with the union representing its long-haul cabin crew.
Following revelations in the Herald last week about Qantas's plans to hire lower paid staff via a new business subsidiary - QF Cabin Crew Pty Ltd - the airline struck a deal with the Flight Attendants Association last night. Under the deal, all new cabin crew will be paid the same as Jetstar crews.
They will also have to work more than 30 per cent more hours than Qantas long-haul crews for around 25 per cent less money, or about half the pay on an hourly basis.
Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon has lauded the deal as "a positive outcome for all concerned".
"This agreement will help provide the level of competitiveness Qantas must have in the highly competitive international aviation industry," Mr Dixon said in a statement.
Qantas will hire the first 550 lower paid crew by June next year in preparation for the first deliveries of its Airbus A380 superjumbos. The airline's introduction of Boeing 787s into its fleet will require it to ramp up its crew numbers dramatically by 2010.
However, in a bid to appease its existing 3000 long-haul cabin crew based in Australia, Qantas has agreed to a new five-year pay deal.
Under the agreement, existing crews will get a 3 per cent per annum pay rise, increased superannuation benefits, extra parental leave and improved chances of promotion. If the deal is approved by members of the Flight Attendants Association of Australia's long-haul arm, existing crews will also get a $3000 sign-on bonus. Existing crews will also not have to work the extra 50-odd hours the new lower-paid crews will have to work each eight -week roster period.
In a bid to arrest the low morale among its cabin crew, Qantas has agreed to boost the number of crews on its 747s (with the new premium economy class) with one new crew member and provide more flying hours on regional routes in Asia to long-haul crew. At present Qantas has increased numbers of low-paid casual staff and domestic flight attendants on flights into China, India and Hong Kong.
Qantas has also agreed to cap the level of overseas cabin crew at 25 per cent, or after the new crew intake, at about 1250. This will allow Qantas to hire about 400 more crew at its Auckland, Bangkok and London bases.
The Flight Attendants Association of Australia has claimed victory. The head of its international division Michael Mijatov said the union had "secured the future of existing cabin crew and beyond that improved" their pay and conditions.
In light of Qantas making 1000 long-haul cabin crew redundant in recent years - despite growing its fleet - Mr Mijatov said there was the risk Qantas could make the remainder of its Australian crews redundant and replace them with lower paid non-unionised crews on AWAs.
"We were looking down the barrel of actually being shut down," he said. The new lower paid crews are entitled to sign up as union members.
Despite the fact that the new cabin crew members hired by the airline will be on lower pay, Mr Mijatov said the union had secured some good benefits for them compared with Jetstar crews.
Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon has lauded the deal as "a positive outcome for all concerned"
SMH
November 27, 2007 - 4:01PM
Qantas has confirmed it plans to hire 2000 international flight attendants on substantially lower rates of pay over the next three years, after striking a deal with the union representing its long-haul cabin crew.
Following revelations in the Herald last week about Qantas's plans to hire lower paid staff via a new business subsidiary - QF Cabin Crew Pty Ltd - the airline struck a deal with the Flight Attendants Association last night. Under the deal, all new cabin crew will be paid the same as Jetstar crews.
They will also have to work more than 30 per cent more hours than Qantas long-haul crews for around 25 per cent less money, or about half the pay on an hourly basis.
Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon has lauded the deal as "a positive outcome for all concerned".
"This agreement will help provide the level of competitiveness Qantas must have in the highly competitive international aviation industry," Mr Dixon said in a statement.
Qantas will hire the first 550 lower paid crew by June next year in preparation for the first deliveries of its Airbus A380 superjumbos. The airline's introduction of Boeing 787s into its fleet will require it to ramp up its crew numbers dramatically by 2010.
However, in a bid to appease its existing 3000 long-haul cabin crew based in Australia, Qantas has agreed to a new five-year pay deal.
Under the agreement, existing crews will get a 3 per cent per annum pay rise, increased superannuation benefits, extra parental leave and improved chances of promotion. If the deal is approved by members of the Flight Attendants Association of Australia's long-haul arm, existing crews will also get a $3000 sign-on bonus. Existing crews will also not have to work the extra 50-odd hours the new lower-paid crews will have to work each eight -week roster period.
In a bid to arrest the low morale among its cabin crew, Qantas has agreed to boost the number of crews on its 747s (with the new premium economy class) with one new crew member and provide more flying hours on regional routes in Asia to long-haul crew. At present Qantas has increased numbers of low-paid casual staff and domestic flight attendants on flights into China, India and Hong Kong.
Qantas has also agreed to cap the level of overseas cabin crew at 25 per cent, or after the new crew intake, at about 1250. This will allow Qantas to hire about 400 more crew at its Auckland, Bangkok and London bases.
The Flight Attendants Association of Australia has claimed victory. The head of its international division Michael Mijatov said the union had "secured the future of existing cabin crew and beyond that improved" their pay and conditions.
In light of Qantas making 1000 long-haul cabin crew redundant in recent years - despite growing its fleet - Mr Mijatov said there was the risk Qantas could make the remainder of its Australian crews redundant and replace them with lower paid non-unionised crews on AWAs.
"We were looking down the barrel of actually being shut down," he said. The new lower paid crews are entitled to sign up as union members.
Despite the fact that the new cabin crew members hired by the airline will be on lower pay, Mr Mijatov said the union had secured some good benefits for them compared with Jetstar crews.
Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon has lauded the deal as "a positive outcome for all concerned"
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more concerns
how come only crew in super division 6 get an increase in contributions to their super?
...in 2010 2000 'B' scale, lets assume still 3000 'A' scale.
now with all the new planes coming online what happens when 'B' scale crew outnumber 'A' scale? they could possibly take control of longhaul faaa division', use an eba to red circle the 'A' group in exchange for a base pay increase for 'B's.
is this possible?
...in 2010 2000 'B' scale, lets assume still 3000 'A' scale.
now with all the new planes coming online what happens when 'B' scale crew outnumber 'A' scale? they could possibly take control of longhaul faaa division', use an eba to red circle the 'A' group in exchange for a base pay increase for 'B's.
is this possible?
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Reality Check
There have been various scales in the Long Haul Cabin Crew area for many years now.
Bangkok, Auckland. London
In short haul they have crew that get bands pay and those that dont as well as MAM casuals who get no holiday pay, sick leave or job security.
In long haul we have had 1200 crew made redundant and a gradual transferring of our work to AKL, BKK, LHR and Short HAul as well as the MAM Casuals in the last few years.
Moral High ground is a nice place to be but it doesnt pay mortgages and school fees.
What the FAAA has done has tried to protect its existing members whilst creating Quality FULL TIME jobs in Australia rather than overseas or casual jobs with no security.
Sure the conditions of existing crew ( much of which from 1974) and no longer competitive are quarantined for us , but for those that would suggest a more moral approach are no looking down the barrel of anhilation through compulsory redundancy and tranfer of work to others.
I have total respect for pilots that have a significant marketable skill, however flight attendants have no major skill that other airlines will pick up and ANsett crew found out when it went belly up.
The FAAA and Long Haul crew have tried to make the best of a daunting situation. I for one would not like to see our jobs go the way of the manufacturing jobs in australia by clinging to notions of moral high ground whilst not being able to feed my kids and being made redundant or restructured to to lack of competitive productivity
Bangkok, Auckland. London
In short haul they have crew that get bands pay and those that dont as well as MAM casuals who get no holiday pay, sick leave or job security.
In long haul we have had 1200 crew made redundant and a gradual transferring of our work to AKL, BKK, LHR and Short HAul as well as the MAM Casuals in the last few years.
Moral High ground is a nice place to be but it doesnt pay mortgages and school fees.
What the FAAA has done has tried to protect its existing members whilst creating Quality FULL TIME jobs in Australia rather than overseas or casual jobs with no security.
Sure the conditions of existing crew ( much of which from 1974) and no longer competitive are quarantined for us , but for those that would suggest a more moral approach are no looking down the barrel of anhilation through compulsory redundancy and tranfer of work to others.
I have total respect for pilots that have a significant marketable skill, however flight attendants have no major skill that other airlines will pick up and ANsett crew found out when it went belly up.
The FAAA and Long Haul crew have tried to make the best of a daunting situation. I for one would not like to see our jobs go the way of the manufacturing jobs in australia by clinging to notions of moral high ground whilst not being able to feed my kids and being made redundant or restructured to to lack of competitive productivity
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In relation to all questions being posted on here.....
If you are an FAAA member i suggest that you call your representatives and get very detailed information.
for those that are not FAAA members you have no business discussing FAAA affairs and the business of long haul crew.....
further, if you ARE an FAAA member you will be able to attend one of many comprehensive and detail briefings that will be held for MEMBERS
If you are an FAAA member i suggest that you call your representatives and get very detailed information.
for those that are not FAAA members you have no business discussing FAAA affairs and the business of long haul crew.....
further, if you ARE an FAAA member you will be able to attend one of many comprehensive and detail briefings that will be held for MEMBERS
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The Trifecta
First it was JW Howard.........booted to oblivion.
Second........Kevin 07 a reality.
Now this,
Well Done to all concerned.
I can't help but think though, WHATS THE CATCH???
After a decade of lies, deceit and spin-WHY would they settle on this??
Sure, I realise its all about a B-scale.
Anyway.......a good result for those who resisted the lure of the last 5 rounds of VR.
Wonder how our Short Haul "colleagues" are feeling about this?
I heard on good authority that they were invited to attend a joint round of EBA discussions............their response???
V-1.................ROTATE
Second........Kevin 07 a reality.
Now this,
Well Done to all concerned.
I can't help but think though, WHATS THE CATCH???
After a decade of lies, deceit and spin-WHY would they settle on this??
Sure, I realise its all about a B-scale.
Anyway.......a good result for those who resisted the lure of the last 5 rounds of VR.
Wonder how our Short Haul "colleagues" are feeling about this?
I heard on good authority that they were invited to attend a joint round of EBA discussions............their response???
V-1.................ROTATE
The catch for you probably - perhaps? - isn't there. It's for all the crew who follow.
I suppose at some stage, however, anyone on EBA8 employed by QANTAS could all be made redundant once they've got enough crew employed by their labour hire company.
Why would they want to keep you at a 50% higher effective hourly rate? Or will they let natural attrition thin your ranks? I somehow doubt it. You'll get no support from you new colleagues either.
There's always a catch.
It's easier to make such comments from the outside looking in though. Good luck either way gents and ladies (I mean that sincerely). You may need it long term.
I suppose at some stage, however, anyone on EBA8 employed by QANTAS could all be made redundant once they've got enough crew employed by their labour hire company.
Why would they want to keep you at a 50% higher effective hourly rate? Or will they let natural attrition thin your ranks? I somehow doubt it. You'll get no support from you new colleagues either.
There's always a catch.
It's easier to make such comments from the outside looking in though. Good luck either way gents and ladies (I mean that sincerely). You may need it long term.
Nunc est bibendum
blueloo was on the ball.
I must admit that when I read it on Qrewroom that I thought the same thing. Far too good and there was something I was missing. The B scale was it!
(I won't kid myself that a B scale for techies like this deal wouldn't get voted up either. Something like this for pilots would get up 60:40 I reckon.)
I must admit that when I read it on Qrewroom that I thought the same thing. Far too good and there was something I was missing. The B scale was it!
(I won't kid myself that a B scale for techies like this deal wouldn't get voted up either. Something like this for pilots would get up 60:40 I reckon.)
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JetSam
Why don't you post your FA stuff on a appropriate forum
I see JetScar have also been foisted upon us, but they only made the GA forum.
Why do aussie hosties have such a bad rap around here???
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They will also have to work more than 30 per cent more hours than Qantas long-haul crews for around 25 per cent less money...about half the pay
Dixon has lauded the deal as "a positive outcome for all concerned".
...in a bid to appease its existing 3000 long-haul cabin crew based in Australia, Qantas has agreed to a new five-year pay deal...existing crews will get a 3 per cent per annum pay rise, increased superannuation benefits, extra parental leave and improved chances of promotion.
Existing crews will also not have to work the extra 50-odd hours the new lower-paid crews will have to work each eight -week roster period.
In a bid to arrest the low morale among(st) its cabin crew, Qantas has agreed to boost the number of crews on its 747s ...with one new crew member
The Flight Attendants Association of Australia has claimed victory. The head of its international division Michael Mijatov said the union had "secured the future of existing cabin crew and beyond that improved" their pay and conditions.
The new lower paid crews are entitled to sign up as union members.
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It's not for me to speak for the FAAA in relation to your question midnight, however i am reliably informed that all new recruits will need to go through an interview process.
I think there are a lot of ozzies here with "casual" jobs who would require very little training who would love "full time" jobs. Many are obviously suitable as are the young people in new zealand. It would be highly desirable that these people be given priority given an existing level of experience and committment to Qantas, particularly those that you mention and the casuals.
Given that the union has negotiated the return of traditional International Regional Flying to Long Haul (where it rightfully belongs) i would imagine that the 1000 jobs being recruited into Long Haul in the next 12 months or so would come from just these groups.
Their experience will seriously reduce Qantas' training costs too
I think there are a lot of ozzies here with "casual" jobs who would require very little training who would love "full time" jobs. Many are obviously suitable as are the young people in new zealand. It would be highly desirable that these people be given priority given an existing level of experience and committment to Qantas, particularly those that you mention and the casuals.
Given that the union has negotiated the return of traditional International Regional Flying to Long Haul (where it rightfully belongs) i would imagine that the 1000 jobs being recruited into Long Haul in the next 12 months or so would come from just these groups.
Their experience will seriously reduce Qantas' training costs too
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The B Scale that the FAAA has agreed to really doesn't surprise me. As if current cabin crew give a "rats" about what pay and conditions future joiners will be on.
It's all about "me, me ,me"! What's in it for me!
It's all about "me, me ,me"! What's in it for me!