REX advertising O/S
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"Bizzybody"
Thats fine buddy but try living in a major city on 45k with a family .(try Sydney for example)
Economically it does not add up regardless how much you love aviation.
There are plenty of pilots out there that would love to fly for REX but just couldn't afford to
I Have and i did but everyone is different. All im saying is that alot these pilot THINK!!!! the are worth more then go find greener grasses.
Better still get an AOC and start one yourself. It just ****s me when people complain about wages because it is you (whoever it is) that signed the dotted line.
Thats fine buddy but try living in a major city on 45k with a family .(try Sydney for example)
Economically it does not add up regardless how much you love aviation.
There are plenty of pilots out there that would love to fly for REX but just couldn't afford to
I Have and i did but everyone is different. All im saying is that alot these pilot THINK!!!! the are worth more then go find greener grasses.
Better still get an AOC and start one yourself. It just ****s me when people complain about wages because it is you (whoever it is) that signed the dotted line.
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Bizzy Body,
Its not always "them" who have signed on the dotted line, quite often the case is that pilots at other airlines have accepted low t&c's, therefore when Eba or awa time comes along, said pilot who wants to hold out for better t&c's can't because he/she has no bargaining power.
If you want to work for the salary your on, go for it, but I bet if a new Eba is signed or management approach you with a 20,000 pa pay rise, you wouldn't knock it back, just because you love your job.
JarJar
Its not always "them" who have signed on the dotted line, quite often the case is that pilots at other airlines have accepted low t&c's, therefore when Eba or awa time comes along, said pilot who wants to hold out for better t&c's can't because he/she has no bargaining power.
If you want to work for the salary your on, go for it, but I bet if a new Eba is signed or management approach you with a 20,000 pa pay rise, you wouldn't knock it back, just because you love your job.
JarJar
bizzybody & Metro36
Your argument is very one sided and to be quite frank very naïve. The whole “Work Choices” legislation was introduced by the Howard government so that market forces could determine wages and conditions for Australian workers. During the bad times employers in Australia have been very good at playing off “Supply & Demand” to reduce wages and conditions across the board. Now that the tide has turned and labour is in such short supply workers need to get their sh*t together and take advantage of the prosperous times. In some industries they already have, i.e. the resources sector. Yes some business will go out of business because they are uncompetitive but that is the free market place at work. Just because you may think your employer can’t afford the wages you think you deserve doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be trying to get it. Take advantage of “Supply and Demand” because at the end of the day it will dictate what you are really worth.
Your argument is very one sided and to be quite frank very naïve. The whole “Work Choices” legislation was introduced by the Howard government so that market forces could determine wages and conditions for Australian workers. During the bad times employers in Australia have been very good at playing off “Supply & Demand” to reduce wages and conditions across the board. Now that the tide has turned and labour is in such short supply workers need to get their sh*t together and take advantage of the prosperous times. In some industries they already have, i.e. the resources sector. Yes some business will go out of business because they are uncompetitive but that is the free market place at work. Just because you may think your employer can’t afford the wages you think you deserve doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be trying to get it. Take advantage of “Supply and Demand” because at the end of the day it will dictate what you are really worth.
Yes but Titan I believe that the only way to take advantage of supply and demand properly is to have the right to collective bargaining. That is exactly why the Liberal government has pushed individual AWA's. When EBA or award conditions are negotiated in the current climate then B scale tricks such as NJS tried will not wash.
If a Rudd Labor government gets in two things will happen: 1. New AWA's will stop being offered once the legislation changes with the senate seat changes and 2. There will have to be transition legislation to allow employees on an AWA back to either an EBA or the Award. Only then will you see real supply and demand occur, wages will rise and companies will finally have to compete for the qualified staff, just as other industry sectors have done.
It is pretty clear to me that mining companies do not wish to pay $120,000 for a bogan truck driver who left school in year 10 to drive their equipment, but hey the reality is that they have to. Brett Godfrey, Geoff Dixon, Allan Joyce etc will soon have to change their tune. That would be why Qantas have decided on a new training company for cadets and DE pilots, they know what is coming next year.
2008 The year of the Australian Pilot
If a Rudd Labor government gets in two things will happen: 1. New AWA's will stop being offered once the legislation changes with the senate seat changes and 2. There will have to be transition legislation to allow employees on an AWA back to either an EBA or the Award. Only then will you see real supply and demand occur, wages will rise and companies will finally have to compete for the qualified staff, just as other industry sectors have done.
It is pretty clear to me that mining companies do not wish to pay $120,000 for a bogan truck driver who left school in year 10 to drive their equipment, but hey the reality is that they have to. Brett Godfrey, Geoff Dixon, Allan Joyce etc will soon have to change their tune. That would be why Qantas have decided on a new training company for cadets and DE pilots, they know what is coming next year.
2008 The year of the Australian Pilot
Icarus2001
You have no argument with me regarding collective bargaining. I think that is one of the contentious areas the Howard government have identified for change before the next election.
I have no problems with AWA's as such as long as the details are then freely made available so that everyone then knows the bargaining power they truly have. As it currently stands the details of AWA’s are kept secret which then leads to abuses by employers because of the upper hand they have.
You have no argument with me regarding collective bargaining. I think that is one of the contentious areas the Howard government have identified for change before the next election.
I have no problems with AWA's as such as long as the details are then freely made available so that everyone then knows the bargaining power they truly have. As it currently stands the details of AWA’s are kept secret which then leads to abuses by employers because of the upper hand they have.
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I agree it is very one sided. I am an employer not an employee
im not going to disagee with some things that are geing said here butjust for a minute try and think about it from the employers point of view. If there is someone out there cheaper that can offer the same thing then why knock them back.
We (as i think most do) have a certain type of pilot we look for when we are recruiting. We are not after a person with several thousand hours and expects to be paid the massive dollars. I have had a person during an interview say to to me this is what i want to get paid... big bux. If its above what i pay the pilots now,,, then no deal. For the record my pilots are happy with the way they get paid. Based on the aircraft that they are flying (not saabs)(as of yesterday) of course they always want more but thats just human nature.
I THINK rex might be the same. They know what type of pilot that want and thats what they are willing pay to get them. They will get them. Its a case of either the rex job as any either suits your needs or it doesnt.
By the sounds of it there are a hell of alot more employee's on here than employers.
BUT!!!!!! to be fair.... is rex only paying 45k for the pleasure??? i havnt seen the ads.
Fo he record Yes i think its low. My pilots re on more than that
Bizz
(keep the PPRUN bashings alive)
im not going to disagee with some things that are geing said here butjust for a minute try and think about it from the employers point of view. If there is someone out there cheaper that can offer the same thing then why knock them back.
We (as i think most do) have a certain type of pilot we look for when we are recruiting. We are not after a person with several thousand hours and expects to be paid the massive dollars. I have had a person during an interview say to to me this is what i want to get paid... big bux. If its above what i pay the pilots now,,, then no deal. For the record my pilots are happy with the way they get paid. Based on the aircraft that they are flying (not saabs)(as of yesterday) of course they always want more but thats just human nature.
I THINK rex might be the same. They know what type of pilot that want and thats what they are willing pay to get them. They will get them. Its a case of either the rex job as any either suits your needs or it doesnt.
By the sounds of it there are a hell of alot more employee's on here than employers.
BUT!!!!!! to be fair.... is rex only paying 45k for the pleasure??? i havnt seen the ads.
Fo he record Yes i think its low. My pilots re on more than that
Bizz
(keep the PPRUN bashings alive)
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Airamerica you D!ckhe@d, read my initial post and tell me where the xenophobic statement is????
For your information (due to your emotive reaction) I posted the link to highlight the fact that REX are advertising their vacancies abroad to those that can work here (Right to live and work in Australia) but are living overseas.
There are many suitable people here in Oz that have busted their backs to scrape together those hours and would love to work for REX. It's a shame they get overlooked.....
Nothing Xenophobic about it you Goose
For your information (due to your emotive reaction) I posted the link to highlight the fact that REX are advertising their vacancies abroad to those that can work here (Right to live and work in Australia) but are living overseas.
There are many suitable people here in Oz that have busted their backs to scrape together those hours and would love to work for REX. It's a shame they get overlooked.....
Nothing Xenophobic about it you Goose
bizzybody
I agree that it is the employer’s job to try and keep costs down, but for true supply and demand to work in the employment market place all cards must be on the table, not just those that the employer wants to reveal. This goes for both parties. It’s like buying a house. I want to know what other people in the same street and suburb have paid recently for similar properties so I don’t over pay. Of course the agent would probably prefer that I didn’t have this info because their job is to get the highest possible price. The info is freely available to the buyer if they look and is of immense help when negotiating for a property. If the employer ends up paying too much for their labour they run the risk of being uncompetitive. If they pay too little and/or don’t look after their employees, then those same employees may just walk out the door to find an employer who will look after them.
I agree that it is the employer’s job to try and keep costs down, but for true supply and demand to work in the employment market place all cards must be on the table, not just those that the employer wants to reveal. This goes for both parties. It’s like buying a house. I want to know what other people in the same street and suburb have paid recently for similar properties so I don’t over pay. Of course the agent would probably prefer that I didn’t have this info because their job is to get the highest possible price. The info is freely available to the buyer if they look and is of immense help when negotiating for a property. If the employer ends up paying too much for their labour they run the risk of being uncompetitive. If they pay too little and/or don’t look after their employees, then those same employees may just walk out the door to find an employer who will look after them.
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Hatchett old boy
- a bex, a cup of tea and a good lie down may not go astray (with all that head banging going on.)
Not that I disagree with your sentiment.
I would suggest this is a logical (and sadly fair) approach by an employer - widen the field in difficult (for them) times, at this stage both Rex and the previous ones to take this track (the surveillance crowd) are only requesting those with work rights.
Of course there are many people who meet their current requirements but who are "unsuitable" for some perceived reason - and I suppose it's only fair that the people who pay the wages have some say in who is/is not acceptable but if it's because the interview panel decide they are unacceptable because they "part their hair on the wrong side" then that's a little OTT (example only, not fact) ... as far as I know
But where is the "line in the sand?"
Where is the point where Rex (as an example) could go to the government of the day and say "we have advertised, there are no SUITABLE people available, we MUST recruit people who would have no rights to work here and YOU MUST approve this!"
That's the point where gloves must come off and all hell break loose.
The upside - been in the game a few years and when I was starting you missed out on someone like Rex you went out and slashed your wrists because there were no other Rex's.
Those starting today have options far and beyond Rex in far shorter times.
It's always been a game for those with the desire to stay in the game and not drop out - difference is your opportunities are immeasurably greater!
Chill out and enjoy the ride. (but still maintain the rage!)
- a bex, a cup of tea and a good lie down may not go astray (with all that head banging going on.)
Not that I disagree with your sentiment.
I would suggest this is a logical (and sadly fair) approach by an employer - widen the field in difficult (for them) times, at this stage both Rex and the previous ones to take this track (the surveillance crowd) are only requesting those with work rights.
Of course there are many people who meet their current requirements but who are "unsuitable" for some perceived reason - and I suppose it's only fair that the people who pay the wages have some say in who is/is not acceptable but if it's because the interview panel decide they are unacceptable because they "part their hair on the wrong side" then that's a little OTT (example only, not fact) ... as far as I know
But where is the "line in the sand?"
Where is the point where Rex (as an example) could go to the government of the day and say "we have advertised, there are no SUITABLE people available, we MUST recruit people who would have no rights to work here and YOU MUST approve this!"
That's the point where gloves must come off and all hell break loose.
The upside - been in the game a few years and when I was starting you missed out on someone like Rex you went out and slashed your wrists because there were no other Rex's.
Those starting today have options far and beyond Rex in far shorter times.
It's always been a game for those with the desire to stay in the game and not drop out - difference is your opportunities are immeasurably greater!
Chill out and enjoy the ride.
(but still maintain the rage!)
AllinGoodTime,
Word from a senior manager in the last few days, "pilots aren't the problem, its engineers that are causing us the most grief"!
Pilots are a major problem of course, but the engineers are now being sought after by the other airlines for the same reason. Some of these guys have very specialised tickets that many brought with them and have been with the airline for years. Their unique qualifications make them virtually irreplacable! Yet the company appear to be treating their workplace conditions with the same inaction as the pilot group!
It will only take a few of these guys to move on to literally bring REX to a stop.
Absolute madness!
Word from a senior manager in the last few days, "pilots aren't the problem, its engineers that are causing us the most grief"!
Pilots are a major problem of course, but the engineers are now being sought after by the other airlines for the same reason. Some of these guys have very specialised tickets that many brought with them and have been with the airline for years. Their unique qualifications make them virtually irreplacable! Yet the company appear to be treating their workplace conditions with the same inaction as the pilot group!
It will only take a few of these guys to move on to literally bring REX to a stop.
Absolute madness!
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Frantic activity by Rex management. Advertising for pilots one day, then
just as suddenly not advertising. So what's up boys and girls?
Do you need pilots or not?
Perhaps the flak on this forum got to them!
Time will tell, my guess is they were so inundated with foreign applicants
that they pulled their little wagons into a circle.
Now what to do next, should we lay low, pretend we don't need pilots.
I've got an idea!!
Ask for expressions of interest in a cadet program, running out of scammy
ideas! Dammit we may have TO PAY more to get some drivers.
Tick, Tick, Tick, the big wheel slowly turns, or has it already done one
big revolution.
just as suddenly not advertising. So what's up boys and girls?
Do you need pilots or not?
Perhaps the flak on this forum got to them!
Time will tell, my guess is they were so inundated with foreign applicants
that they pulled their little wagons into a circle.
Now what to do next, should we lay low, pretend we don't need pilots.
I've got an idea!!
Ask for expressions of interest in a cadet program, running out of scammy
ideas! Dammit we may have TO PAY more to get some drivers.
Tick, Tick, Tick, the big wheel slowly turns, or has it already done one
big revolution.
Interesting thoughts boofta,
and probably not too far off the mark. The idea of not advertising for pilots may be an attempt to take some of the heat out of the situation. It wont help the crisis of course, but it may give the illusion that all is not as bad as it seems.
REX do need pilots, and lots of them! Probably 50 by the end of the year to keep pace with expected attrition, and around 140 over the next 2 years to meet fleet expansion plans. Not to mention further losses to the major carriers into 2008-2009. If this situation doesn't escalate, and it probably will, then on present trends REX can expect to lose between 50 & 100 pilots a year over the next 2-3 years!!!
The idea of attracting overseas applicants is just nonsence! Management line is that we are just a regional airline and cannot compete with the higher salaries being paid by the majors. Well guess what, thats where any overseas applicants are going, not to REX.
Don't think lifestyle is the answer, that went a long time ago.
and probably not too far off the mark. The idea of not advertising for pilots may be an attempt to take some of the heat out of the situation. It wont help the crisis of course, but it may give the illusion that all is not as bad as it seems.
REX do need pilots, and lots of them! Probably 50 by the end of the year to keep pace with expected attrition, and around 140 over the next 2 years to meet fleet expansion plans. Not to mention further losses to the major carriers into 2008-2009. If this situation doesn't escalate, and it probably will, then on present trends REX can expect to lose between 50 & 100 pilots a year over the next 2-3 years!!!
The idea of attracting overseas applicants is just nonsence! Management line is that we are just a regional airline and cannot compete with the higher salaries being paid by the majors. Well guess what, thats where any overseas applicants are going, not to REX.
Don't think lifestyle is the answer, that went a long time ago.
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I take you have worked your ass off like many others to get to the left hand seat, and these scum bags pay you this rubbish.
I just love the way that you think that you, as a pilot, know more about airline management than the people who have been successfully doing it for years (record profits, apparently...).
I love the way that you think that REX have not carefully considered their recruitment policy, and that only you can see what might happen if they get it wrong.
I love the way that you think that that they are scumbags, simply because they will not do what YOU want them to... whether it makes economic sense or not.
I love the way that you think that they will fail, just because you want them to... retribution for not paying you the fortune that you think that you are worth, I suppose.
My guess is that they will continue on, making more and more money, and will attempt to recruit people without bloated egos and a completely warped appreciation of their value to the company. If I was them, I would be looking to offer the slots to Indian or Chinese pilots who need the experience, but don't come with the attitude issues that so many Aussie pilots seem to possess. I'm sure that an arrangement could be made between REX and the Chinese or Indian airlines that would bypass the immigration issues - it could be presented as an export opportunity.
Frankly, if I was running REX, I would pay money not to have to recruit some of the self-obsessed wannabes that post on here.
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Just checked REX's website tonight and under career opportunities they have removed the listing for Pilots? Jobs for LAME's posted, but no Pilots.
What the????
What the????
DIVOSH!
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Brilliant Remoak
Just one glaring problem, India and China have bigger pilot shortage
problems than Rex. As a wannabee with 40 years of insignificant
experience, and absolutely no idea of the depth of intelligence
needed to run a DEMAND driven enterprise- I stoop in awe.
Hail to airline managers everywhere!
If only they could introduce world standard salaries to pilots in Aust.
I repeat my contention that Rex management have pulled their pilot
advertising due to a last cynical attempt to scam Aussie pilots.
Advertise for Chinese MBA's to run all the airlines in Aust, there must
be thousands graduating each year! That would save heaps.
They can ALL do your job and mine so lets advertise for them.
Damn immigration laws, damn insurance minimums, if only pilots
would shut up, we could use 200 hour slave labour, damn pilots!
Just one glaring problem, India and China have bigger pilot shortage
problems than Rex. As a wannabee with 40 years of insignificant
experience, and absolutely no idea of the depth of intelligence
needed to run a DEMAND driven enterprise- I stoop in awe.
Hail to airline managers everywhere!
If only they could introduce world standard salaries to pilots in Aust.
I repeat my contention that Rex management have pulled their pilot
advertising due to a last cynical attempt to scam Aussie pilots.
Advertise for Chinese MBA's to run all the airlines in Aust, there must
be thousands graduating each year! That would save heaps.
They can ALL do your job and mine so lets advertise for them.
Damn immigration laws, damn insurance minimums, if only pilots
would shut up, we could use 200 hour slave labour, damn pilots!
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Just one glaring problem, India and China have bigger pilot shortage
problems than Rex.
problems than Rex.
Back in the '90s when I was working for a well-known British carrier, we made an absolute mint training up Dragonair First Officers. They would come to us for six months/300 hours, we would train them up, and they would go back ready to slot in to the airline. We won two ways; we were paid by Dragonair to train these guys, and we didn't have to employ first officers. If REX were smart, they would be looking to do the same with Indian or Chinese pilots. They could make money and avoid having to employ uppity "world-owes-me-a-living" locals. Immigration issues pretty much cease to exist when you are dealing with an international commercial contract (essentially an export business), as opposed to indviduals.
If only they could introduce world standard salaries to pilots in Aust.
They can ALL do your job and mine so lets advertise for them.
damn insurance minimums
if only pilots
would shut up
would shut up
I remember the last time Aussie pilots decided to make a noise, how did that go?
But hey, good luck. If only wishing made it so, huh?