QF Longhaul Cabin Crew Promotions
Registered User **
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Ultimate Crew Rest....
Age: 69
Posts: 2,346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RW don’t waste your breath with twiggsy as she is nothing more than a company plant. She attempts to pass herself off as crew but as you pointed out:
Never criticises the company and always takes their side in an argument
Only posts when someone is harsh or unhappy with the company and openly criticises them for doing so
Never comments on any topical subject such as the takeover mainly because she can’t.
She is only here to distract and discredit anyone who opposes the company and since the company endorsed the takeover she was hardly in a position to talk about it.
When stretched for a comment comes up with classics that George Bush would be proud of.
A prime example of her thoughts is the well known “I think everyone has lost sight of what this job is about, and it aint money.It's about the destinations”……
Ohh yes…..nice one twiggsy..So we can live on air and use it to pay our bills and mortgages. We really don’t need money just the glamour of flying around the world.
However she really blew it when she commented on a delayed flight out of Mel for Nrt.A comment about it was made by a S/H CSM and it was this
“The flight was delayed out of Melbourne to Narita a few weeks ago - an A330-300.
The LH crew weren't going to achieve their required rest break (just short) in NRT.
They try and negotiate with the LH crew. They say nope.
Phone calls are made to SH crew on home reserve. Paxed up to NRT, day rest and bring back the aircraft. 2 things here -
1. you have to be flexible sometimes to help yourselves in the long term
2. Before you bag the SH crew - The SH crew had no choice.”
Then Twiggsy put her foot in it by saying…
”In the delay in question, one option presented to the crew was to take minimum rest in Narita and get home as scheduled, and the duty was to be treated as a continuous one (lots of overtime), from sign on in MEL till sign off in SYD.
It was only an option given, not a request, and was probably declined as the crew in question did not consider that amount of rest to warrant the extra money or the fact that they would probably get home a day late.
The S/H crew that were called out, paxed to NRT had 12 hrs off and operated back to SYD, slightly easier than if the L/H crew had operated a delayed service, had less than 12 hrs off, and then operated back to SYD.”
Now,Twiggsy is supposed to be a L/H F/A based in Australia.
How then did she know?
1:That there was a delay. In fact she refers to the issue as “In the delay in question” as if she has first hand knowledge of it.
2:What was offered to the L/H crew and that it was an offer not a request.
3:That it was declined.
4:A probable reason for that refusal.
5:That S/H were called out.
6:What the pattern for the S/H crew was.
When you read her post it sounds as though you are listening to someone in the office giving a briefing of the delay for the committee who deals with aircraft delays.
When asked for an explanation of her knowledge of the minute details of the delay she prevaricated for more than 2 months before finally telling us that she found out about it by knowing where to read.
Where exctly is that Twiggsy?
Now with the company giving minimal notice of promotional prospects after years of waiting twiggsy tells us that we should be in constant and daily contact with the company at all times even when on holidays.
With the basic purpose of holidays being to get away from the work enviroment Twiggs and the rest of the office tells us that we still need to keep in touch.
RW is right perhaps the company should give us all satellite phones so that they can call us at every opportunity
Never criticises the company and always takes their side in an argument
Only posts when someone is harsh or unhappy with the company and openly criticises them for doing so
Never comments on any topical subject such as the takeover mainly because she can’t.
She is only here to distract and discredit anyone who opposes the company and since the company endorsed the takeover she was hardly in a position to talk about it.
When stretched for a comment comes up with classics that George Bush would be proud of.
A prime example of her thoughts is the well known “I think everyone has lost sight of what this job is about, and it aint money.It's about the destinations”……
Ohh yes…..nice one twiggsy..So we can live on air and use it to pay our bills and mortgages. We really don’t need money just the glamour of flying around the world.
However she really blew it when she commented on a delayed flight out of Mel for Nrt.A comment about it was made by a S/H CSM and it was this
“The flight was delayed out of Melbourne to Narita a few weeks ago - an A330-300.
The LH crew weren't going to achieve their required rest break (just short) in NRT.
They try and negotiate with the LH crew. They say nope.
Phone calls are made to SH crew on home reserve. Paxed up to NRT, day rest and bring back the aircraft. 2 things here -
1. you have to be flexible sometimes to help yourselves in the long term
2. Before you bag the SH crew - The SH crew had no choice.”
Then Twiggsy put her foot in it by saying…
”In the delay in question, one option presented to the crew was to take minimum rest in Narita and get home as scheduled, and the duty was to be treated as a continuous one (lots of overtime), from sign on in MEL till sign off in SYD.
It was only an option given, not a request, and was probably declined as the crew in question did not consider that amount of rest to warrant the extra money or the fact that they would probably get home a day late.
The S/H crew that were called out, paxed to NRT had 12 hrs off and operated back to SYD, slightly easier than if the L/H crew had operated a delayed service, had less than 12 hrs off, and then operated back to SYD.”
Now,Twiggsy is supposed to be a L/H F/A based in Australia.
How then did she know?
1:That there was a delay. In fact she refers to the issue as “In the delay in question” as if she has first hand knowledge of it.
2:What was offered to the L/H crew and that it was an offer not a request.
3:That it was declined.
4:A probable reason for that refusal.
5:That S/H were called out.
6:What the pattern for the S/H crew was.
When you read her post it sounds as though you are listening to someone in the office giving a briefing of the delay for the committee who deals with aircraft delays.
When asked for an explanation of her knowledge of the minute details of the delay she prevaricated for more than 2 months before finally telling us that she found out about it by knowing where to read.
Where exctly is that Twiggsy?
Now with the company giving minimal notice of promotional prospects after years of waiting twiggsy tells us that we should be in constant and daily contact with the company at all times even when on holidays.
With the basic purpose of holidays being to get away from the work enviroment Twiggs and the rest of the office tells us that we still need to keep in touch.
RW is right perhaps the company should give us all satellite phones so that they can call us at every opportunity
Join Date: May 2005
Location: crew rest
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
twigg and Midnight, your lack of understanding crew logistics is incredible.
Yes people are able to keep in contact with QF via a myriad of electronic ways.
But what is the point if you are on annual leave or forced LSL in may/June (there are a lot of crew on forced leave) and you are overseas!
What do you fly back for those hideous assessment days and then wait for a panel interview and then start training in your holidays.
Also QF have now stated that if you happen to be on a trip on one of the assessment days they will not allow you to drop it and take annual leave.
Anyway who cares, they have already selected their people! and they happen to be the EX LHR CSM/CSS and the Brown nosers that man the BOS desk and other areas of QCC
Its a done deal.
Yes people are able to keep in contact with QF via a myriad of electronic ways.
But what is the point if you are on annual leave or forced LSL in may/June (there are a lot of crew on forced leave) and you are overseas!
What do you fly back for those hideous assessment days and then wait for a panel interview and then start training in your holidays.
Also QF have now stated that if you happen to be on a trip on one of the assessment days they will not allow you to drop it and take annual leave.
Anyway who cares, they have already selected their people! and they happen to be the EX LHR CSM/CSS and the Brown nosers that man the BOS desk and other areas of QCC
Its a done deal.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Perth
Posts: 503
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
.........just spoke to my Cabin Crew Team Manager ( burp!)......he advised that the CSM Training course will be TWO WEEKS in length.
I can remember when it was SIX !!!!!
Talk about "cut backs"!!!!
Guess who the facilitators are going to be......
wait for it
....take a deep breath !!!!!!
THE CABIN CREW MANAGERS .
This course has credibility written all over it.
Good Luck to those who get the gig.
You're gonna need it. It will be yet another QF debacle.
I can remember when it was SIX !!!!!
Talk about "cut backs"!!!!
Guess who the facilitators are going to be......
wait for it
....take a deep breath !!!!!!
THE CABIN CREW MANAGERS .
This course has credibility written all over it.
Good Luck to those who get the gig.
You're gonna need it. It will be yet another QF debacle.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Perth
Posts: 503
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
..............'the other bit that I forgot to mention is that the new CSM's will be put on SIX MONTHS PROBATION ......post the 2 weeks training.
`What tha???/
Can some one please tell me some other job in the "outside/real" world whereby you are selected on merit as a Manager ......only to be put on probation as a "......just in case they are duds".
ie ......only criminals get put on probation in my books.
Imagine how many of the current ground managers ( EXCO included) would be still around if they were on probation.........don't go there.
Come back Line Contollers, bring back the old regime.
All is forgiven.
Spare us these incompetent Clowns any longer.
`What tha???/
Can some one please tell me some other job in the "outside/real" world whereby you are selected on merit as a Manager ......only to be put on probation as a "......just in case they are duds".
ie ......only criminals get put on probation in my books.
Imagine how many of the current ground managers ( EXCO included) would be still around if they were on probation.........don't go there.
Come back Line Contollers, bring back the old regime.
All is forgiven.
Spare us these incompetent Clowns any longer.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: crew rest
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
heh Heh ehehhhhhh
this is going to be gooooooooooood
Anyway the brown nosers and ex LHR will only need 2 weeks.
Cant wait to see the list.
My spy tells me they have been inundated with lick lick phone calls.
My spy tells me that soon the dobbing and recriminations will begin.
Watch your backs for a while boys as there will be a few out there that will do anything to score some points.
this is going to be gooooooooooood
Anyway the brown nosers and ex LHR will only need 2 weeks.
Cant wait to see the list.
My spy tells me they have been inundated with lick lick phone calls.
My spy tells me that soon the dobbing and recriminations will begin.
Watch your backs for a while boys as there will be a few out there that will do anything to score some points.
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 824
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So these new appointees will be thrown out online after just 2 weeks training
[historically it's been 6], with the expectation that if they stuff up within the first 6 months they have to hand back the coat???
It's just getting better.
Can't wait to hear how the ground dwelling [non operational] managers are going to appraise the onboard performance of these new CSM's.
How are they going install a BOS desk onboard for them to run to when issues "operational" arise??????
Bring back the line managers indeed.
Except the one who the, "snack on Q's" are now named after......
[historically it's been 6], with the expectation that if they stuff up within the first 6 months they have to hand back the coat???
It's just getting better.
Can't wait to hear how the ground dwelling [non operational] managers are going to appraise the onboard performance of these new CSM's.
How are they going install a BOS desk onboard for them to run to when issues "operational" arise??????
Bring back the line managers indeed.
Except the one who the, "snack on Q's" are now named after......
Registered User **
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Ultimate Crew Rest....
Age: 69
Posts: 2,346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A two week training course...brilliant..where's our company spokesperson for a comment?
sorry I forgot..she won't make any adverse comments about the company and she can't possibly condone a 2 week training course .
This is another example of cost cutting by the company.I can imagine the discussion between JB and LG about the need for more CSM's.
LG...John ..we need more CSM's...90% have taken VR !!!!
JB..But Lusley..we don't have any money..
LG...Hang on what about in the papers and all that talk about a billion in cash we have....
JB..but Lusley..... Darth won't let us use it.....
LG....Well how about if we cut training back from 6 weeks to 2 weeks.
JB..They need training..?
LG..Well , we've got to at least try to make it look as though we care about the role..
JB ..Can you do it in 1 week..how about a morning tea when we give them the uniform????
LG..No it takes at least 2 weeks to brain wash them into liking Darth...
JB..OK you'e got 2 weeks but put your own people in so we keep interviewing costs to a minimum.
LG..How about they pay for their own ties...
This is going to be good...hang on I know what has happened.When AO was shut down we probably got the village idiot back and he is doing the training.
He is that bad that he is only allowed 2 weeks because the recruits would probably have him fitted for cement shoes if they had to put up with him for 6 weeks........
sorry I forgot..she won't make any adverse comments about the company and she can't possibly condone a 2 week training course .
This is another example of cost cutting by the company.I can imagine the discussion between JB and LG about the need for more CSM's.
LG...John ..we need more CSM's...90% have taken VR !!!!
JB..But Lusley..we don't have any money..
LG...Hang on what about in the papers and all that talk about a billion in cash we have....
JB..but Lusley..... Darth won't let us use it.....
LG....Well how about if we cut training back from 6 weeks to 2 weeks.
JB..They need training..?
LG..Well , we've got to at least try to make it look as though we care about the role..
JB ..Can you do it in 1 week..how about a morning tea when we give them the uniform????
LG..No it takes at least 2 weeks to brain wash them into liking Darth...
JB..OK you'e got 2 weeks but put your own people in so we keep interviewing costs to a minimum.
LG..How about they pay for their own ties...
This is going to be good...hang on I know what has happened.When AO was shut down we probably got the village idiot back and he is doing the training.
He is that bad that he is only allowed 2 weeks because the recruits would probably have him fitted for cement shoes if they had to put up with him for 6 weeks........
Join Date: May 2005
Location: maquarie fields
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Speedbird and Lowerlobe.As you know I agree with 99% of what you have to say.
However the 2 weeks training is more than sufficient for the new CSM"s.
The new CSM's have been CSS's for years and most of them have operated as a CSM.
REally ! what is the problem!
The only ones that need training is if a F/A is going to be made up as a CSM and that" aint gonna happen"
Actually it would be insulting to think that the CSM's need more than 2 weeks.
Apart from learning all the J/C procedures what else do you want them to learn.
So come on lets get real here!
Anyway as stated most of the CSM's will be from LHR and all those BOSS people.
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 824
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Point taken OCCR.
However is only the "merit appointed" supervisors employed within the last 7 or so years that received the 4 week training component.
Ad the two weeks training to this lot and I guess you have your 6 week total.
It'll be different for those supervisors who were originally employed as "seniors" as their training was less than comprehensive but as you say the arguement is at the end of the day pointless.
We know too well who will ge the positions.
Credibility amongst your peer group counts for a lot in our flying community and can massively influence job satisafaction.
Being "one out" on a crew of 15 can be a lonely experience on a nine day trip.
QF at the end of the day has a "duty of care" to ensure that it's newly appointed managers are FULLY trained and equipped to deal with what can be, on occasion a very demanding role.
They can hardly hold them accountable for the decisions thay make otherwise.................
However is only the "merit appointed" supervisors employed within the last 7 or so years that received the 4 week training component.
Ad the two weeks training to this lot and I guess you have your 6 week total.
It'll be different for those supervisors who were originally employed as "seniors" as their training was less than comprehensive but as you say the arguement is at the end of the day pointless.
We know too well who will ge the positions.
Credibility amongst your peer group counts for a lot in our flying community and can massively influence job satisafaction.
Being "one out" on a crew of 15 can be a lonely experience on a nine day trip.
QF at the end of the day has a "duty of care" to ensure that it's newly appointed managers are FULLY trained and equipped to deal with what can be, on occasion a very demanding role.
They can hardly hold them accountable for the decisions thay make otherwise.................
Join Date: May 2005
Location: crew rest
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
true speed bird but those "seniors" have been in the job for over 10 years now, I think that they have the needed experience.
Anyway most of the so called "merit" based CSS's have been disastrous.
the 2 week training for the CSM's is sufficient provided they have been a supervisor for at least 2 years.
On Board experience counts for everything,and I agree with you that being a good manager means that you don't isolate all your crew!
Anyway most of the so called "merit" based CSS's have been disastrous.
the 2 week training for the CSM's is sufficient provided they have been a supervisor for at least 2 years.
On Board experience counts for everything,and I agree with you that being a good manager means that you don't isolate all your crew!
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 824
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote- "Anyway most of the so called "merit" based CSS's have been disastrous."
I'd have to respectfully disagree and acknowledge that perhaps we are seeing things from a different perspective.
I can't honestly think of too many [if any] current "merit based CSS's" that are ordinary.
The ordinary ones from my perspective are those that effectively bypassed the CSS role and went almost straight away into the CSM role.
Plenty of shockers come to mind there, don't you think??
Two years minimum as a CSS makes sense to me too. The role provides an almost perfect learning curve and certainly sorts out the wheat from the chaff.
My comments re isolation relates to what the crew may do to someone who
they perceive to be underserving of the position through sheer incompetance or "otherwise". Be that political appointee, company stooge/brown noser or queue jumper.
I'd have to respectfully disagree and acknowledge that perhaps we are seeing things from a different perspective.
I can't honestly think of too many [if any] current "merit based CSS's" that are ordinary.
The ordinary ones from my perspective are those that effectively bypassed the CSS role and went almost straight away into the CSM role.
Plenty of shockers come to mind there, don't you think??
Two years minimum as a CSS makes sense to me too. The role provides an almost perfect learning curve and certainly sorts out the wheat from the chaff.
My comments re isolation relates to what the crew may do to someone who
they perceive to be underserving of the position through sheer incompetance or "otherwise". Be that political appointee, company stooge/brown noser or queue jumper.
Last edited by speedbirdhouse; 12th May 2007 at 13:17.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: REAL WORLD
Posts: 352
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
another perspective
lets say some the ex lhr based managers get a look in. then you have the ex domestic csm who came accross lh as bfa then css. then you have the recently transfered sh csm into lh as csm's with only minimum training. pandoras box is well and truly open. 2 weeks training is far too much, why not hand them a cd that will do. it certainly is better then having the visitors doing the training.
Registered User **
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Ultimate Crew Rest....
Age: 69
Posts: 2,346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OCCR....Agreed that you raise a fair point.
However there are two issues I think are relevant.
1:Why Now?
After having a 6 week course since I can remember and having more courses for us to do than you can poke a stick at ,why do they drop it to 2 weeks now.
2:The issue such as those returning from the London Monopoly game and will skip 2 or 3 places and go straight to the cashier with out looking back.
The other point is that it is almost as though someone in the office has just woken up and realised that they do not have enough CSM's and need them by yesterday.....Then again why does that not surprise me.
"The ordinary ones from my perspective are those that effectively bypassed the CSS role and went almost straight away into the CSM role"........Exactly right but then again they have managers that have never flown so at least they are being consistent.
However there are two issues I think are relevant.
1:Why Now?
After having a 6 week course since I can remember and having more courses for us to do than you can poke a stick at ,why do they drop it to 2 weeks now.
2:The issue such as those returning from the London Monopoly game and will skip 2 or 3 places and go straight to the cashier with out looking back.
The other point is that it is almost as though someone in the office has just woken up and realised that they do not have enough CSM's and need them by yesterday.....Then again why does that not surprise me.
"The ordinary ones from my perspective are those that effectively bypassed the CSS role and went almost straight away into the CSM role"........Exactly right but then again they have managers that have never flown so at least they are being consistent.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Heaven
Posts: 584
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
quotas
350 crew have kicked the tyres for VR.
Dont be surprised if the company doesnt get enough applicants for both the CSS and/or CSM positions.
The culling process begins with the application....your manager must tick a box indicating that they support your application.
Many hopefuls are not getting the tick.
They are looking for "business champions"
Gee...I wonder who qualifies?
A brown spot on the tip of your nose may help
Dont be surprised if the company doesnt get enough applicants for both the CSS and/or CSM positions.
The culling process begins with the application....your manager must tick a box indicating that they support your application.
Many hopefuls are not getting the tick.
They are looking for "business champions"
Gee...I wonder who qualifies?
A brown spot on the tip of your nose may help
Registered User **
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 621
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had always thought that the title of "Base Champion" was indicative of the mindset in the office and now that they want "business champions" only reinforces that concept.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Perth
Posts: 503
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'Just spoke to a mate who rocked up for the CSM assessment day in BNE today.
He said .....it was "quote" .....a frigg'n joke!!!
"No one knew what was going on ( Cabin Crew Managers , that is) They bumbled and fumbled their way through a totally flawed process-a debacle."
Again, why the big rush ???.. There are heaps of people who are unable to apply due to Leave etc. A window of 1 week to apply for people who are on rotational shifts is a joke. How can any one assess operational crew who do not fly OR have flown.? There's only one who has --- A.S. who was a F/A in PER.
Apparently they are going to buddy up the new CSM's with "Mentor CSM's" ( what tha????) How does one qualify for this gig? Word is that the Mentor CSM will fly with the CSM on "training wheels" for a period of time as a Supernumerary. Yes please.....I'll have a JFK trip with a 3 day slip ( reminds me of Gilroy daze )
Anyway, 10 days in the Mushroom farm will probably be enough.
Gotta love this place. Its all happening
He said .....it was "quote" .....a frigg'n joke!!!
"No one knew what was going on ( Cabin Crew Managers , that is) They bumbled and fumbled their way through a totally flawed process-a debacle."
Again, why the big rush ???.. There are heaps of people who are unable to apply due to Leave etc. A window of 1 week to apply for people who are on rotational shifts is a joke. How can any one assess operational crew who do not fly OR have flown.? There's only one who has --- A.S. who was a F/A in PER.
Apparently they are going to buddy up the new CSM's with "Mentor CSM's" ( what tha????) How does one qualify for this gig? Word is that the Mentor CSM will fly with the CSM on "training wheels" for a period of time as a Supernumerary. Yes please.....I'll have a JFK trip with a 3 day slip ( reminds me of Gilroy daze )
Anyway, 10 days in the Mushroom farm will probably be enough.
Gotta love this place. Its all happening
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Perth
Posts: 503
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
3 classes of L/H CSM's, .....approx 14 per class.
Training..... starts on the 4th June for Course #1, 6th June Course #2 8th June Course #3.
New CSS numbers are rumoured to be around 45.
Obviously these numbers will cover all bases.
The current CSM ..."Mentor" group that haven't been selected yet ???!!!! will start their training mmmmmmmm.......soon!!!!
These are the ones's that will fly with the new CSM bunnies on their first trips.
A good idea
Training..... starts on the 4th June for Course #1, 6th June Course #2 8th June Course #3.
New CSS numbers are rumoured to be around 45.
Obviously these numbers will cover all bases.
The current CSM ..."Mentor" group that haven't been selected yet ???!!!! will start their training mmmmmmmm.......soon!!!!
These are the ones's that will fly with the new CSM bunnies on their first trips.
A good idea