QF L/H accomodation possible changes
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trying to get one step ahead
as most of you aware the rules in the take over game has changed. the banks lowered their minimum 90% acceptance level to 70-75% in return for a HIGHER INTEREST RATE. as recently speculated by a financial columnist this would add another 200 MILLION DOLLARS a year in interest.
AND HERE THEY KEEP ON SAYING BUSINESS AS USUAL
AND HERE THEY KEEP ON SAYING BUSINESS AS USUAL
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The Party Is Over
I have seen the best of flying.... commraderie,pride in the company,respect as an employee are now all gone.
Time for me to go.
Spend time with my family before they all grow up.
Thanks folks.....its been a blast
Time for me to go.
Spend time with my family before they all grow up.
Thanks folks.....its been a blast
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Will It Be Worth Staying?
Qantas's executive general manager, John Borghetti, said the union was being "mischievous". "No Qantas cabin crew were being forced to take the redundancy. "If people don't want it, they don't go,"
Nice parting words, but what's next. We all know they want to play with the bidding seniority, the allowances, overtime, slip formula and of course redirect as much flying to Domestic and J*Int. as they can .
The FAAA has a big agenda on it's hands with the next EBA, let's see what they can do for LHcrew survival !
Nice parting words, but what's next. We all know they want to play with the bidding seniority, the allowances, overtime, slip formula and of course redirect as much flying to Domestic and J*Int. as they can .
The FAAA has a big agenda on it's hands with the next EBA, let's see what they can do for LHcrew survival !
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If the union is described as "mischievous" then the only possible way you could describe the company is "machiavellian"..........
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What tha??
Just read the latest installment from the FAAA bunker.
Since when did we support the use of Casuals in L/H??
News to me.
Please don't tell me this is where we're heading..... a la MAM.
Since when did we support the use of Casuals in L/H??
News to me.
Please don't tell me this is where we're heading..... a la MAM.
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This is not going to get any better, trust me. If you want to take VR please do all of us a favor and go. It may slow down some of the whining that most of us are sick off. Bring in some new blood any day.
To the old school that need to see their accountants, why not make a decision for yourself. When you get into the real world you may have to make a couple more each day. Give it ago, it wont bite.
To the old school that need to see their accountants, why not make a decision for yourself. When you get into the real world you may have to make a couple more each day. Give it ago, it wont bite.
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You first kiddy......By the way how are your mates who have never flown but seem to know what our job is like?
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Thanks for the tip midsection.
I now may need to see a shrink as well as an Accountant...thanks to your hurtful ridicule form the "real world".
Oh my gosh.
Is it that bad out there ????
I now may need to see a shrink as well as an Accountant...thanks to your hurtful ridicule form the "real world".
Oh my gosh.
Is it that bad out there ????
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midsection,
you speak of senior crew as if we would be all better off without them.
Give me them as the foundation to a crew ANY day over the new breed that are replacing them out of AKL.
Senior crew are for the VERY most part organised, co-operative, professional and team orientated not to mention having both the experience, maturity AND common sense to know what to do and say and when to say and do it.
Large numbers of crew coming out of AKL these days are not only unpleasant, unco-operative, lazy and immature as to be next to useless onboard but their most vocal critics are those KIWIS preceeding them who's employment was conditional on them meeting personal AND professional standards.
Those who recruit over there are reporting that they are seeing people they rejected as being unsuitable years ago now wearing our uniforms.
As I mentioned before..........even front teeth are now optional!!!!
The pay and conditions being offered in AKL being so poor that it's reported by those who were there that 3 people turned up at the Wellington open day recently.
When I joined 20 years ago the odds were 1 in a 100 on getting the gig and these odds went a long way to ensuring that QF found suitable candidates.
Now the AKL base management are so desperate that they send text messages to existing crew asking if any of their friends want jobs as FA's.
Were was Lisa Robinson employed again......?
Business and Economy class passenger satisfaction levels are on the slide according to QF and they will continue to do so if these [and other] trends continue.
The cabin crew trip swap website is full of customer service supervisors trying to dump AKL-LA trips as they don't want the unpleasant task of flying with our [what did you call them? ] "new blood".
The sooner the base is operationally independant of Australian based crew the better AFAIK.
So far removed from the reality of actually what happens on board our aircraft that you surely must be management.
How are those surveys looking again...................
?
you speak of senior crew as if we would be all better off without them.
Give me them as the foundation to a crew ANY day over the new breed that are replacing them out of AKL.
Senior crew are for the VERY most part organised, co-operative, professional and team orientated not to mention having both the experience, maturity AND common sense to know what to do and say and when to say and do it.
Large numbers of crew coming out of AKL these days are not only unpleasant, unco-operative, lazy and immature as to be next to useless onboard but their most vocal critics are those KIWIS preceeding them who's employment was conditional on them meeting personal AND professional standards.
Those who recruit over there are reporting that they are seeing people they rejected as being unsuitable years ago now wearing our uniforms.
As I mentioned before..........even front teeth are now optional!!!!
The pay and conditions being offered in AKL being so poor that it's reported by those who were there that 3 people turned up at the Wellington open day recently.
When I joined 20 years ago the odds were 1 in a 100 on getting the gig and these odds went a long way to ensuring that QF found suitable candidates.
Now the AKL base management are so desperate that they send text messages to existing crew asking if any of their friends want jobs as FA's.
Were was Lisa Robinson employed again......?
Business and Economy class passenger satisfaction levels are on the slide according to QF and they will continue to do so if these [and other] trends continue.
The cabin crew trip swap website is full of customer service supervisors trying to dump AKL-LA trips as they don't want the unpleasant task of flying with our [what did you call them? ] "new blood".
The sooner the base is operationally independant of Australian based crew the better AFAIK.
So far removed from the reality of actually what happens on board our aircraft that you surely must be management.
How are those surveys looking again...................
?
Last edited by speedbirdhouse; 14th Apr 2007 at 10:03.
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From the self absorbed employers point of view, why not replace Ozi CCs with cheaper, younger and possibly harder working, less complaining maybe even better looking, image enhancing, marketable CCs. Actually if they could just get enough of you long service veterans to take redundancy they could probably accomplish all of the above by employing young Ozi school leavers instead of having to recruit off shore. 
All the hard working young Ozi kids wouldn't then have to go and work for the competition overseas earning tax free money and doing wonders for their adopted airlines image and profitability.
So you see, it's not QF who is making this happen. It's all the long term employees who are so much more expensive, demanding and unionized that are at fault. If you would all just retire once you reached the age of 35 you could help keep jobs in Australia for future generations.
All the hard working young Ozi kids wouldn't then have to go and work for the competition overseas earning tax free money and doing wonders for their adopted airlines image and profitability.
So you see, it's not QF who is making this happen. It's all the long term employees who are so much more expensive, demanding and unionized that are at fault. If you would all just retire once you reached the age of 35 you could help keep jobs in Australia for future generations.
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SHOCK ....and awe
OK Shockwave.......can I ask whats your age?????????
If you're so into looks and image as the sole criteria for judging an airline and so keen for the "old timers-35 years" to bail then who is going to manage these people?
You're other mate- "Lower Section" also thinks its time for new blood. Well buddy let me tell you :
You try and manage a group of 6-8 ....19 year olds on a full '400 with no IFE and a few busted toilets en route from AKL-LAX.
You talk about "Veterans" well -these are the ones that put their hands up when the going gets tough. Some of your "Ozi kids" just run and hide in the toilets.
Don't get me wrong.......I've got nothing against a new breed of "young Ozi's coming thru. In fact, I was going to encourage my daughter ( a Uni graduate ) to join for a few years{she is 24 -FYI }. But not now. Under the Howard Govts pathetic IR laws and the QF policy of only recruiting MAM casuals or O/s crew......forget it!!!!
Why would any "young Ozi" want to join , when there is no career progression and you are staring down the barrell of CUTS in hard fought conditions.
I would still argue that the best crew we have are those that join us as FULL TIME OZI's-24-28 yrs old (young). They have lived a bit of life, can handle themselves under pressure, work in a Team, have a sense of humour, don't take crap from drunks and can deliver great OZI service that we're famous for......easy!!!
SO THINK...... before making ridiculous , broad , unsubstantiated statements. Because one day you too will reach the ripe old age of 35 and then realise that you're in a career that you love and make a difference for people.
Not all over 35 CC's are -UGLY, LAZY, TIRED , OVER PAID , LEFT WING LOONIES , as you describe.
Me thinks , you're one of those who have been looking out over too many horizons fantasizing about your next "white with one" delivered by a hostie who has the look of "I want your baby" in her eyes.
Go and find your self a mirror and take a long hard look into to the eyes that you see. Shake the sand off your self.
Then go back and read your last post Shockwave.
If you're so into looks and image as the sole criteria for judging an airline and so keen for the "old timers-35 years" to bail then who is going to manage these people?
You're other mate- "Lower Section" also thinks its time for new blood. Well buddy let me tell you :
You try and manage a group of 6-8 ....19 year olds on a full '400 with no IFE and a few busted toilets en route from AKL-LAX.
You talk about "Veterans" well -these are the ones that put their hands up when the going gets tough. Some of your "Ozi kids" just run and hide in the toilets.
Don't get me wrong.......I've got nothing against a new breed of "young Ozi's coming thru. In fact, I was going to encourage my daughter ( a Uni graduate ) to join for a few years{she is 24 -FYI }. But not now. Under the Howard Govts pathetic IR laws and the QF policy of only recruiting MAM casuals or O/s crew......forget it!!!!
Why would any "young Ozi" want to join , when there is no career progression and you are staring down the barrell of CUTS in hard fought conditions.
I would still argue that the best crew we have are those that join us as FULL TIME OZI's-24-28 yrs old (young). They have lived a bit of life, can handle themselves under pressure, work in a Team, have a sense of humour, don't take crap from drunks and can deliver great OZI service that we're famous for......easy!!!
SO THINK...... before making ridiculous , broad , unsubstantiated statements. Because one day you too will reach the ripe old age of 35 and then realise that you're in a career that you love and make a difference for people.
Not all over 35 CC's are -UGLY, LAZY, TIRED , OVER PAID , LEFT WING LOONIES , as you describe.
Me thinks , you're one of those who have been looking out over too many horizons fantasizing about your next "white with one" delivered by a hostie who has the look of "I want your baby" in her eyes.
Go and find your self a mirror and take a long hard look into to the eyes that you see. Shake the sand off your self.
Then go back and read your last post Shockwave.
Last edited by stubby jumbo; 14th Apr 2007 at 22:30.
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Ageist, Sexist, Pilot View from the Sandpit
Shockwave...wake up camel jockey....this is 2007 not 1907.
After years of getting rid of older employees many American Companies have realised their folly...they are now re employing these people because they are....reliable ...loyal... intelligent...better educated and have a well developed WORK ETHIC.
After years of getting rid of older employees many American Companies have realised their folly...they are now re employing these people because they are....reliable ...loyal... intelligent...better educated and have a well developed WORK ETHIC.
Last edited by Zeus Ex Machina; 14th Apr 2007 at 14:11. Reason: information
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A little touch of sarcasm
Guys n gals, I'll think you'll find Shockwaves post was with a tongue firmly planted in their cheek..............at least that's the way I read it!! 
Either that or Shockwaves suffering from heat exhaustion in the Sahara
Fancy an icy cold VB?
Either that or Shockwaves suffering from heat exhaustion in the Sahara
Fancy an icy cold VB?
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Perhaps a little bit of sarcasm was misplaced , with such a touchy subject.
I did not intend for you all to think that my previous post was an expression of my views, but rather an insight as to how many other airlines and now perhaps your own view things differently. Despite what they will admit to in public.
Understanding how your adversary thinks and what his plans are is the only chance you will get to succeed. Burying your heads in the sand will not help.
Age has many benefits, and in this business experience is crucial in many ways. However, not all see it that way. I am way past 35 and my experience keeps me alive on a daily basis, thankfully in my job, my employer agrees.
I did not intend for you all to think that my previous post was an expression of my views, but rather an insight as to how many other airlines and now perhaps your own view things differently. Despite what they will admit to in public.
Understanding how your adversary thinks and what his plans are is the only chance you will get to succeed. Burying your heads in the sand will not help.
Age has many benefits, and in this business experience is crucial in many ways. However, not all see it that way. I am way past 35 and my experience keeps me alive on a daily basis, thankfully in my job, my employer agrees.
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Shockwave...What the...
I am way past 35 and my experience keeps me alive on a daily basis, thankfully in my job, my employer agrees.....
You are obviously some overpaid expat in UAE and have nothing to do with airlines or have any idea what is going on with Qantas or any other airline for that matter. So why post on a thread you have no connection to or any idea of what is going on ? No, this site is not to the exclusion of the non-airline public, but pointless sarcasm and uneducated comment is not going to further the discussion here or create any interesting exchange of viewpoint.
Apart from getting stubby jumbo and lowerlobe all worked up !!
You are obviously some overpaid expat in UAE and have nothing to do with airlines or have any idea what is going on with Qantas or any other airline for that matter. So why post on a thread you have no connection to or any idea of what is going on ? No, this site is not to the exclusion of the non-airline public, but pointless sarcasm and uneducated comment is not going to further the discussion here or create any interesting exchange of viewpoint.
Apart from getting stubby jumbo and lowerlobe all worked up !!
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It is pointless to say what my experience is, because it could so easily be B.S.
25 years in the airline business, 9 of those with QF if you believe it.
What I unsuccessfully tried to get you guys to do is view your situation from a different view point. Not mine. Qf is in a very difficult position, with competition coming from all over the world. From places where employees are not protected as they are in OZ, and sexism, racism and exploitation are ignored if not encouraged.
Cabin crew are in general much younger because no one can put up with the life style under those conditions for too many years. Therefore the companies salary bills are lower and they save a fortune. The turn over of crews keeps the average enthusiasm and interest level in the job higher. Or it could be that they are too inexperienced to complain and with no union they will have to work hard or leave. Either way the company wins.
Younger, newer, and cheaper!
Of course that does not necessarily make them as professional or as good at their job as a more experienced crew member, but it also does not preclude it.
If Qf can remove people from the upper levels of your pay scale and replace them with new joiners at the bottom of the pay scale they win big time. If they also happen to employ them from a different country where they will not be subject to OZ labour laws or Unions they will win again.
Your competition already does the same and for QF to survive they have to be able to compete. The alternative is to be subsidized or go out of business.
I do not advocate what is going on, I am just telling you what is.
25 years in the airline business, 9 of those with QF if you believe it.
What I unsuccessfully tried to get you guys to do is view your situation from a different view point. Not mine. Qf is in a very difficult position, with competition coming from all over the world. From places where employees are not protected as they are in OZ, and sexism, racism and exploitation are ignored if not encouraged.
Cabin crew are in general much younger because no one can put up with the life style under those conditions for too many years. Therefore the companies salary bills are lower and they save a fortune. The turn over of crews keeps the average enthusiasm and interest level in the job higher. Or it could be that they are too inexperienced to complain and with no union they will have to work hard or leave. Either way the company wins.
Younger, newer, and cheaper!
Of course that does not necessarily make them as professional or as good at their job as a more experienced crew member, but it also does not preclude it.
If Qf can remove people from the upper levels of your pay scale and replace them with new joiners at the bottom of the pay scale they win big time. If they also happen to employ them from a different country where they will not be subject to OZ labour laws or Unions they will win again.
Your competition already does the same and for QF to survive they have to be able to compete. The alternative is to be subsidized or go out of business.
I do not advocate what is going on, I am just telling you what is.
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No problemo Shock wave. I did take Slonghauls advice and downed a few VB's........worked wonders.
Its just that we're all so OVER this whole "you're OLD-YOU'RE CRAP-YOU'RE TOO EXPENSIVE" BS from Management..... compared to airline X, Y, and Z.
We are probably too sensitive. But we have had a gutful of the Goons that run this joint.
Everywhere you go, from Checkin staff, Baggage, Engineers, Res, Techies,Freight........EVERYONE thinks this place has bleak future,'cause we put in and getting treated like dog turd.
anyways.......
Time for another cold one.
Life's too short.
Its just that we're all so OVER this whole "you're OLD-YOU'RE CRAP-YOU'RE TOO EXPENSIVE" BS from Management..... compared to airline X, Y, and Z.
We are probably too sensitive. But we have had a gutful of the Goons that run this joint.
Everywhere you go, from Checkin staff, Baggage, Engineers, Res, Techies,Freight........EVERYONE thinks this place has bleak future,'cause we put in and getting treated like dog turd.
anyways.......
Time for another cold one.
Life's too short.