Exodus from Skippers (Merged)
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Exactly. Love him or hate him, Stan the man is no fool. If the jet end of town becomes overheated, operators with a single or two type fleet of good turboprops could still do well into all the places jets fear to tread. Also, some customers could and should be nervous about placing all their contracts with one operator for lots of reasons. Pilot or engineer industrial action, being held to ransom with pricing, breakdowns etc etc. My advice to a big client would be to spread the love amongst at least two operators.
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gas-chamber. I'm interested in what makes you say that. I don't know of any contracts that are let out to two companies to operate together. Sure, there are ad-hoc charter flights on top of contract flights by another operator but I am not aware of a mine contracting two companies to go fly to the one mine.
Having said that, I'm totally prepared to be proven wrong.
I have heard of mining companies letting out contracts to seperate contractors for similar but not exactly the same criteria (ie, mining equipment/ongoing maintenance) but not the fly-in fly-out servicing.
Having said that, I'm totally prepared to be proven wrong.
I have heard of mining companies letting out contracts to seperate contractors for similar but not exactly the same criteria (ie, mining equipment/ongoing maintenance) but not the fly-in fly-out servicing.
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Ref, what GC may mean for example is the current tender for Rio. Instead of giving all the flying to one operator maybe they could give different destinations to different operators. ie PBO to company A, Mung to Company B and so on.
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As I said, that is how I would advise a client, if their business was big enough to call the shots. Not much different to the situation where Qantas gave some of their regional flying to NJS, some to its own regionals and some to the original Jetstar. Maybe not to the same airports or mine sites, athough certainly if there was enough work to sustain two operators, a good idea. Keeps everyone on their best behaviour. The flip side is the client has to pay realistic money to sustain the two operators. If they just use it to drive the price below profitable levels it soon puts the weaker of the two operators out of business and defeats the entire purpose.
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The answer to my previous question has presented itself:
One off to Skywest, two to Alliance and One off to Cathay ( all Captains ), all good blokes apparently, well done to them !.
What will happen, Parking aircraft against the fence "or" lower the experience levels even further ( will be interested to see how this game of limbo will play out, we all know how this dangerous game has historically ended ).
Whilst i do not know SQ, I find it hard to believe that a change of management would not be addressing the most pressing issue, retention of current staff and obtaining new staff.
Interstingly enough, where other organisations have adapted,,,, they are not complaining of staff shortages.
Noticed on another thread some slagging off regarding the Brasilia incident at Jundee, whilst it is highly unfair to be pointing fingers, you could certainly suggest that something very drastic and systemic occured to allow that aircraft to have an outstanding defect ( undetected by comparision to drip sticks ) that could allow them to run out of fuel, it could have been Australia's worst accident ever.
Well done to the crew for what ever actions they took as a response to this incident that saved to day.
Apparently the last fortnights pay went in late, is this so, can not imagine that went down too well ?.
One off to Skywest, two to Alliance and One off to Cathay ( all Captains ), all good blokes apparently, well done to them !.
What will happen, Parking aircraft against the fence "or" lower the experience levels even further ( will be interested to see how this game of limbo will play out, we all know how this dangerous game has historically ended ).
Whilst i do not know SQ, I find it hard to believe that a change of management would not be addressing the most pressing issue, retention of current staff and obtaining new staff.
Interstingly enough, where other organisations have adapted,,,, they are not complaining of staff shortages.
Noticed on another thread some slagging off regarding the Brasilia incident at Jundee, whilst it is highly unfair to be pointing fingers, you could certainly suggest that something very drastic and systemic occured to allow that aircraft to have an outstanding defect ( undetected by comparision to drip sticks ) that could allow them to run out of fuel, it could have been Australia's worst accident ever.
Well done to the crew for what ever actions they took as a response to this incident that saved to day.
Apparently the last fortnights pay went in late, is this so, can not imagine that went down too well ?.
Last edited by Shed Dog Tosser; 26th Jan 2008 at 23:18.
People tell me, "it's getting better at Skippers now RS is gone!"
Maybe they are allowing staff to have a drink from the cool room again.
Maybe they are allowing staff to have a drink from the cool room again.
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Shed Dog Tosser
Granted the crew did a good job to save the aircraft form a major accident which at the end of the day is the most important thing. The more disturbing thing about that particular incident is that it could have and should have been totally avoidable. Not sure what exactly occurred with the fuel, faulty gauge, crew incorrect calculation of fuel (within 3% eg) but seems to be some issues with maintenance procedures or if the crew did calculate the fuel incorrectly SOP's, training standards, crew experience levels etc
Granted the crew did a good job to save the aircraft form a major accident which at the end of the day is the most important thing. The more disturbing thing about that particular incident is that it could have and should have been totally avoidable. Not sure what exactly occurred with the fuel, faulty gauge, crew incorrect calculation of fuel (within 3% eg) but seems to be some issues with maintenance procedures or if the crew did calculate the fuel incorrectly SOP's, training standards, crew experience levels etc
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Apparently more Captains off, a sad loss for the organsiation, VB this time.
Word has it, a cadet that has been out of the flying school and with the company about six months is about to / has started flying the Conquest, what, TT circa 700 ?, i guess there is the answer to the previous question.
Word has it, a cadet that has been out of the flying school and with the company about six months is about to / has started flying the Conquest, what, TT circa 700 ?, i guess there is the answer to the previous question.
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What is happening with the hour/experience req's with contracts?
Have these changed as well, would hate to think that they are being ignored! The mines would NOT put up with that at all.
But hey......
Have these changed as well, would hate to think that they are being ignored! The mines would NOT put up with that at all.
But hey......
Join Date: Oct 2002
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The mines WILL put up with it because they have no choice.
Mr Minesite, "We're cancelling your contract because your pilots don't meet our minimum requirements."
Mr GA operator says, " No one can meet your requirements anymore either."
Mr Minesite says, "Sure mate, pilots are a dime a dozen. Everyone knows that..."
Mr NJS/Alliance/Skywest/pick one then says "spend 5 mil to upgrade your strip then we'll do you a great deal on a jet service."
Mr Minesite says,"But we only need to move 15 people 3 times a week...."
Mr Minesite says,"Mr Skippers, forget those requirements. We can't get truck drivers. Can't imagine how hard it is for you to get decent bus/plane drivers."
The industry wide skills shortage means that the minimum requirements for any position whether it be flying or cooking meals is going through the floor. There are many many examples of this.
The aviation industry is no different.
Mr Minesite, "We're cancelling your contract because your pilots don't meet our minimum requirements."
Mr GA operator says, " No one can meet your requirements anymore either."
Mr Minesite says, "Sure mate, pilots are a dime a dozen. Everyone knows that..."
Mr NJS/Alliance/Skywest/pick one then says "spend 5 mil to upgrade your strip then we'll do you a great deal on a jet service."
Mr Minesite says,"But we only need to move 15 people 3 times a week...."
Mr Minesite says,"Mr Skippers, forget those requirements. We can't get truck drivers. Can't imagine how hard it is for you to get decent bus/plane drivers."
The industry wide skills shortage means that the minimum requirements for any position whether it be flying or cooking meals is going through the floor. There are many many examples of this.
The aviation industry is no different.
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more rumours to add:
* Skippers is apparently "For Sale",
* a handfull of Dash 8 Captains have resigned this week, off to another blue tailed operator, two more very soon ( leaving them very very short ),
* another couple of Bras Captains in finals stages of jobs with the majors,
* another couple of Metro Captains leaving very soon, another on the roll very soon ( also leaving them very very short ),
* heard on the grapevine that a few nasty letters/phone calls/emails to the new employers were made to paint of bad picture of departing staff ( wow thats gutsy ),
* Morale at an all new time low.
* Skippers is apparently "For Sale",
* a handfull of Dash 8 Captains have resigned this week, off to another blue tailed operator, two more very soon ( leaving them very very short ),
* another couple of Bras Captains in finals stages of jobs with the majors,
* another couple of Metro Captains leaving very soon, another on the roll very soon ( also leaving them very very short ),
* heard on the grapevine that a few nasty letters/phone calls/emails to the new employers were made to paint of bad picture of departing staff ( wow thats gutsy ),
* Morale at an all new time low.
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* heard on the grapevine that a few nasty letters/phone calls/emails to the new employers were made to paint of bad picture of departing staff ( wow thats gutsy ),
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Libel
Ref+10, such defamatory emails/letters/calls could constitute libel, and if you have proof (i.e. can get hold of a copy of the letter/email or a recording of a phone conversation), it can potentially get very expensive for the originating person/company.
You could actually stand to make a healthy sum in the process if your lawyer can argue successfully that you incurred a loss (didn't get that jet job, lower entry salary/rank, etc.) as a direct or indirect result of the defamation.
I would never ever stand for something outrageous like that, it's unbelievable bad form, not to mention illegal, and I would encourage you and anyone else affected by such a horrible practice to seek legal representation and if possible sue the ba
rds for all you can!!
Also, if anyone has such proof, I would also encourage them (after checking with their legal representation) to post the contents here and so name and shame the companies and individuals involved.. that would teach them
BTW Ref+10 you can still take legal action years after the fact
You could actually stand to make a healthy sum in the process if your lawyer can argue successfully that you incurred a loss (didn't get that jet job, lower entry salary/rank, etc.) as a direct or indirect result of the defamation.
I would never ever stand for something outrageous like that, it's unbelievable bad form, not to mention illegal, and I would encourage you and anyone else affected by such a horrible practice to seek legal representation and if possible sue the ba
rds for all you can!!Also, if anyone has such proof, I would also encourage them (after checking with their legal representation) to post the contents here and so name and shame the companies and individuals involved.. that would teach them
BTW Ref+10 you can still take legal action years after the fact
Last edited by PlankBlender; 2nd Mar 2008 at 01:29. Reason: added BTW
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A Taped phone conversation will not hold up in court unless you are heard on the conversation saying "Do you mind if I tape this conversation"
I have been there and done that in the force and it was quashed.
Skippers for sale? lol ok - nice joke. Why would you sell a company that is earning the owners nearly double digit millions?
I have been there and done that in the force and it was quashed.
Skippers for sale? lol ok - nice joke. Why would you sell a company that is earning the owners nearly double digit millions?
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A Taped phone conversation will not hold up in court unless you are heard on the conversation saying "Do you mind if I tape this conversation"
Ref +10, things worked out well for you. I would probably let sleeping dogs lie.
As for the sale of Skippers, I thought it had been on the market (quietly) for a while. There has been a figure floating around for years but I bet it has dropped a few mill since then
..