***warning***
aka Capt PPRuNe
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Just thought I'd add that perhaps some of you need to get out a bit more and read how the rest of the world does professional aviation. If you want to discuss flying instructor issues then you go to the Flight Instructors forum. If you want to discuss how you think Qantas or Jetstar should be managed and run then you either go to the Spotters Balcony forum or the Airlines, Airports & Routes forum. If you want to discuss Steve Irwin then you go to Jet Blast.
It has become very apparent to me over the years of running this website that one of the main problems facing you Antipodeans when it comes to professional aviation is that you have become too insular. You have come to believe that you are somehow special or so different from everywhere else on earth that you are a special case. Well, perhaps it is time to wake up and smell the coffee. The problems you have with airport closures and the difficulty getting that first paid job as a pilot or believing that you know better than the owners how to run an airline or in this case a professional pilots website are not exclusive to Godzone people. They occur all over the world and the only difference is that the scale is different.
Please tell me how can a country with an aviation idustry the size of Australia's warrant such an exclusive forum. You seem to think that because you are tucked away in a huge continent that you have in some way evolved differently when it comes to our profession and everything associated with it.
I have met and flown with enough Australian and New Zealand pilots during my career to understand that those of you who have never had to venture outside of your area to fly professionally seem to think that what you do, the problems you face and the environment you fly in are somehow exclusive and different. Well, let me tell you, you need to get out more often and experience how the rest of the world do it.
As for the spotters, enthusiasts and anyone else who has an interest in professional aviation, you can use this site and the areas dedicated to your enthusiasm or hobby. However, just because something has wings does not mean that it has to be mentioned on here. The numerous threads I have seen that go on about an accident or incident involving some private aircraft just go to show that some of you obviously don't understand what is meant by PROFESSIONAL PILOTS website!
To assist you in coming to terms with the planned changes to this and other forums, and this is by no means comprehensive, you should consider the following categories of professional pilots and associated jobs as they rank for inclusion as topical on this website:
Airline pilots of medium and heavy jets; Airline pilots of regional jets and turboprops over 20t; GA professional pilots of other multi-engined aircraft; Military pilots; professional helicopter pilots; professional pilots of other a/c types including lighter-than-air (powered).
Next we have:
ATC; Cabin crew; Flight engineers; Ground engineers; Flight Dispatchers; Operations; Crewing; Rostering.
Next:
Flight instructors; Groundschool instructors; Wannabe professional pilots.
Finally:
Private pilots (only insofar as they relate to those staring out on their professional training).
Anything else goes into the other forums. Steve Irwin, if you have the urge to say anything then go to Jet Blast. Another more relevant example, if you want to discuss the closing of an airport, even if it affects the jobs of anyone in the previously mentioned categories then you use the Airlines, Airports & Routes forum. Likewise for all the budding airline tycoons who want to debate the ins and outs of which a/c type is better suited for a particular route or the scheduling of a particular city pair or whatever, then use the appropriate forum. It never ceases to amaze me that you somehow think that you know what is best yet you want to keep it insulated from the outside world of professional aviation. If you listened a bit more and stopped preaching so much perhaps you'd get a few more solutions to the "unique problems" that you think you have Dunnunda!
If some of you think that I'm advocating censorship then you need your heads examining. Have you ever tried getting an article or even just a letter published in a newspaper with your views on something? Do you call the editor accusing him or her of censorship because they didn't publish something? Well, I retain the right to decide what does and doesn't get published on here. It isn't your liveliehood or home that is on the line. Far too many posters are under the misguided impression that just because they are anonymous they can make unsubstantiated accusations about named individuals. Well, it is high time that those of you who are under that misguided impression get off this website because I will not protect anyone who makes libelous or defamatory statements without substantiated proof. Too many times individuals on here have tried to use this site for their own personal agendas and been oh-so-brave insulting others when we all know that they'd never use such language or allegations if they were face to face with their target.
I'll repoen this thread so that the discussion can go on but please spare us the semantics and martyrdom speeches. The issue is PPRuNe and how the content is going to be related to PROFESSIONAL PILOTS and the associated areas mentioned above.
It has become very apparent to me over the years of running this website that one of the main problems facing you Antipodeans when it comes to professional aviation is that you have become too insular. You have come to believe that you are somehow special or so different from everywhere else on earth that you are a special case. Well, perhaps it is time to wake up and smell the coffee. The problems you have with airport closures and the difficulty getting that first paid job as a pilot or believing that you know better than the owners how to run an airline or in this case a professional pilots website are not exclusive to Godzone people. They occur all over the world and the only difference is that the scale is different.
Please tell me how can a country with an aviation idustry the size of Australia's warrant such an exclusive forum. You seem to think that because you are tucked away in a huge continent that you have in some way evolved differently when it comes to our profession and everything associated with it.
I have met and flown with enough Australian and New Zealand pilots during my career to understand that those of you who have never had to venture outside of your area to fly professionally seem to think that what you do, the problems you face and the environment you fly in are somehow exclusive and different. Well, let me tell you, you need to get out more often and experience how the rest of the world do it.
As for the spotters, enthusiasts and anyone else who has an interest in professional aviation, you can use this site and the areas dedicated to your enthusiasm or hobby. However, just because something has wings does not mean that it has to be mentioned on here. The numerous threads I have seen that go on about an accident or incident involving some private aircraft just go to show that some of you obviously don't understand what is meant by PROFESSIONAL PILOTS website!
To assist you in coming to terms with the planned changes to this and other forums, and this is by no means comprehensive, you should consider the following categories of professional pilots and associated jobs as they rank for inclusion as topical on this website:
Airline pilots of medium and heavy jets; Airline pilots of regional jets and turboprops over 20t; GA professional pilots of other multi-engined aircraft; Military pilots; professional helicopter pilots; professional pilots of other a/c types including lighter-than-air (powered).
Next we have:
ATC; Cabin crew; Flight engineers; Ground engineers; Flight Dispatchers; Operations; Crewing; Rostering.
Next:
Flight instructors; Groundschool instructors; Wannabe professional pilots.
Finally:
Private pilots (only insofar as they relate to those staring out on their professional training).
Anything else goes into the other forums. Steve Irwin, if you have the urge to say anything then go to Jet Blast. Another more relevant example, if you want to discuss the closing of an airport, even if it affects the jobs of anyone in the previously mentioned categories then you use the Airlines, Airports & Routes forum. Likewise for all the budding airline tycoons who want to debate the ins and outs of which a/c type is better suited for a particular route or the scheduling of a particular city pair or whatever, then use the appropriate forum. It never ceases to amaze me that you somehow think that you know what is best yet you want to keep it insulated from the outside world of professional aviation. If you listened a bit more and stopped preaching so much perhaps you'd get a few more solutions to the "unique problems" that you think you have Dunnunda!
If some of you think that I'm advocating censorship then you need your heads examining. Have you ever tried getting an article or even just a letter published in a newspaper with your views on something? Do you call the editor accusing him or her of censorship because they didn't publish something? Well, I retain the right to decide what does and doesn't get published on here. It isn't your liveliehood or home that is on the line. Far too many posters are under the misguided impression that just because they are anonymous they can make unsubstantiated accusations about named individuals. Well, it is high time that those of you who are under that misguided impression get off this website because I will not protect anyone who makes libelous or defamatory statements without substantiated proof. Too many times individuals on here have tried to use this site for their own personal agendas and been oh-so-brave insulting others when we all know that they'd never use such language or allegations if they were face to face with their target.
I'll repoen this thread so that the discussion can go on but please spare us the semantics and martyrdom speeches. The issue is PPRuNe and how the content is going to be related to PROFESSIONAL PILOTS and the associated areas mentioned above.
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I have met and flown with enough Australian and New Zealand pilots during my career to understand that those of you who have never had to venture outside of your area to fly professionally seem to think that what you do, the problems you face and the environment you fly in are somehow exclusive and different. Well, let me tell you, you need to get out more often and experience how the rest of the world do it.
Us antipodeans are no bloody different to anyone else, if you think we are, then perhaps its time you took another view at the world
Over the past couple of years I've been fortunate enough to have a bit to do with the PPrune team, and I've been benefited from their guidance and generosity. As a result of this, and perhaps because of this..each time I've read a post In D & G that is quite clearly ignorant, insular, or worse..I've tried to throw a little balance (and humour) into the mix.
So I say to all you doubting thomas's,critics,mud-slingers and other disgruntled D & G contributors...give this a chance...we all face the same issues..we all share an interest in aviation (of many kinds)...and after all is said and done, its a big world out there
Cheers
H
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That's ok.
A professional pilot, to me, is an attitude. It has nothing to do with a) what licence you hold; b) what type of aircraft you fly; and c) how big your pay packet is.
So under that definition.....
A professional pilot, to me, is an attitude. It has nothing to do with a) what licence you hold; b) what type of aircraft you fly; and c) how big your pay packet is.
So under that definition.....
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It has become very apparent to me over the years of running this website that one of the main problems facing you Antipodeans when it comes to professional aviation is that you have become too insular. You have come to believe that you are somehow special or so different from everywhere else on earth that you are a special case
As a loyal Australian, having flown professionally in Oz and now the UK, I find this insulting. But having now flown off the rock, sadly, IMHO, it is often true.
BB
As a loyal Australian, having flown professionally in Oz and now the UK, I find this insulting. But having now flown off the rock, sadly, IMHO, it is often true.
BB
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Sort and clean the forum out "DANNY" by all means, but keep the pisstake for your own "country" or what's left of it.
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Well haughtney, I deleted the post as I cant be bothered making comments to people from a certain part of the world who are losing their country and identity and yet still have a chip from the rugby outcome. 
I would like to suggest that there are one or two categories missing from Danny's carefully constructed pecking order that perhaps might be worth including since they have a rather large effect on the life of professional pilots one way or another, if only for completness.
I'm not sure they would merit their own area on Pprune since I have not known very many who would post, or even could post without being rather too easily identifiable.
The first of these are the professionals who design and manufacture your aircraft.
The second are the managers and schedulers within the airline that attempt to provide a suitably maintained and equipped aircraft for you to fly at the appropriate place and time.
The third are the accountants who have to figure out what its all going to cost.
The latter two groups seem to be invisible from the cockpit, but without their largely unsung work nothing happens.
As for differences between Australia and Europe and the various p***ing contests, there are a number of pluses and minuses on both sides.
Australia doesn't have very many snow covered runways, congestion and rotten European weather although I'm sure the QF International pilots get their fair share. Perhaps the job is easier because of it, I wouldn't know.
On the other hand, we don't have a large choice of local employers (ground and flight crew), and that has to color people's thinking and discourse here. At one stage the two old domestic airlines even had an unwritten agreement not to poach or even employ each others staff.
On an operational level, the fleets are relatively small here and the distances between major centres are rather large, which means the logistics and priorities are quite different from European operations, like having five state capitals and only four spare engines.
On a final note, the industry is relatively small here and closely connected, which means that, as evidenced by Pprune posts, that when some Cessna has an accident in the outback somewhere, some expat B747 driver will pipe up about spending time flying it years ago. The New Guinea thread is a case in point.
OK, I need to get out more, off to do some laps in the Cessna.
I'm not sure they would merit their own area on Pprune since I have not known very many who would post, or even could post without being rather too easily identifiable.
The first of these are the professionals who design and manufacture your aircraft.
The second are the managers and schedulers within the airline that attempt to provide a suitably maintained and equipped aircraft for you to fly at the appropriate place and time.
The third are the accountants who have to figure out what its all going to cost.
The latter two groups seem to be invisible from the cockpit, but without their largely unsung work nothing happens.
As for differences between Australia and Europe and the various p***ing contests, there are a number of pluses and minuses on both sides.
Australia doesn't have very many snow covered runways, congestion and rotten European weather although I'm sure the QF International pilots get their fair share. Perhaps the job is easier because of it, I wouldn't know.
On the other hand, we don't have a large choice of local employers (ground and flight crew), and that has to color people's thinking and discourse here. At one stage the two old domestic airlines even had an unwritten agreement not to poach or even employ each others staff.
On an operational level, the fleets are relatively small here and the distances between major centres are rather large, which means the logistics and priorities are quite different from European operations, like having five state capitals and only four spare engines.
On a final note, the industry is relatively small here and closely connected, which means that, as evidenced by Pprune posts, that when some Cessna has an accident in the outback somewhere, some expat B747 driver will pipe up about spending time flying it years ago. The New Guinea thread is a case in point.
OK, I need to get out more, off to do some laps in the Cessna.
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At last sanity prevails. When I pointed out to one ppruner that it was supposed to be a forum for PROFESSIONAL PILOTS. MOR wrote:
" WITCH get a life. And you got the emphasis wrong in your explanation of the forum title. It is the Professional Pilots Rumour network. In fact, it stopped being for professional pilots some years ago..."
Good on ya Danny
" WITCH get a life. And you got the emphasis wrong in your explanation of the forum title. It is the Professional Pilots Rumour network. In fact, it stopped being for professional pilots some years ago..."
Good on ya Danny
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Sadly there is too much whinging and vitriol on D&G and I consider this the primary cause of Danny's "rage". We have to clean up our act in this area for the benifit of all and for positive input into our industry here in Oz and Godzone.
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Danny,
Thank you for taking this overdue step and allowing us access to your site for free. Whatever rules you set - I'll abide by or leave.
Sunfish,
1722 posts in 2 years - you really have too much spare time and too much to say.
Thank you for taking this overdue step and allowing us access to your site for free. Whatever rules you set - I'll abide by or leave.
Sunfish,
1722 posts in 2 years - you really have too much spare time and too much to say.
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I hate to say it, Danny, but I feel you have become just as much an offender with this topic, and your posts, as you accuse many of those other "horrible Australians" of being guilty (of).
There's no disputing at all, that PPRuNe is your personal domain - but it is the contributors and posters who have built it to be what it is.
And although you state that you pay for the hosting etc, i notice there are a heck of a lot of advertisements, all over PPRuNe.
Having advertised my aviation forum website here - the name of which is banned - I know how very expensive those banners are.
You are certainly to be commended for growing PPRuNe into what it has become for the pilot community, and I fully concur that there are always the spammers and opportunists who try to take advantage of a site such as your's, to try to promote their product, or point of view.
BUT, that doesn't - imo - give YOU the right to issue a tirade of venom against Australians in general, which is how your posts have come across, whether you meant it that way or not.
Yes, we are a diverse lot, and we don't often sugar-coat our words when we feel strongly about particular subjects.
But we Australians understand that, and so whilst some of it might appear "coarse" and "crude" to Englishmen and other Europeans, or non-native Strine speakers, we take it in our stride.
Isn't THAT precisely one of the reasons you set up separate forums for different countries?
Knowing that those forums would more likely be frequented by countrymen of those specific forae?
I'm not excusing the spammers, or the outright personally abusive posts that I have been subjected to on occasion here, however in the Oz culture there is often a "dig" intended to get a measured degree of response to insure continued debate.
Thanks for the space on your website that allowed me to air my Aussie point of view.
Charlie Rich aka Kaptin M.
There's no disputing at all, that PPRuNe is your personal domain - but it is the contributors and posters who have built it to be what it is.
And although you state that you pay for the hosting etc, i notice there are a heck of a lot of advertisements, all over PPRuNe.
Having advertised my aviation forum website here - the name of which is banned - I know how very expensive those banners are.
You are certainly to be commended for growing PPRuNe into what it has become for the pilot community, and I fully concur that there are always the spammers and opportunists who try to take advantage of a site such as your's, to try to promote their product, or point of view.
BUT, that doesn't - imo - give YOU the right to issue a tirade of venom against Australians in general, which is how your posts have come across, whether you meant it that way or not.
Yes, we are a diverse lot, and we don't often sugar-coat our words when we feel strongly about particular subjects.
But we Australians understand that, and so whilst some of it might appear "coarse" and "crude" to Englishmen and other Europeans, or non-native Strine speakers, we take it in our stride.
Isn't THAT precisely one of the reasons you set up separate forums for different countries?
Knowing that those forums would more likely be frequented by countrymen of those specific forae?
I'm not excusing the spammers, or the outright personally abusive posts that I have been subjected to on occasion here, however in the Oz culture there is often a "dig" intended to get a measured degree of response to insure continued debate.
Thanks for the space on your website that allowed me to air my Aussie point of view.
Charlie Rich aka Kaptin M.
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I don't see what the issue is with the DG threads. We like to fight among ourselves, that's half the fun. I have cruised the other threads on pprune and seen the pilots from the UK related threads tear each other apart over ryanair and ezyjet topics, the Hong Kong blokes are at each other's necks like vampire bats, the miltary threads will happily devour 10 pages of trading abuse over things like the best way to cook on a weber barbeque which as far as I know has sweet F-A to do with being a professional miltary pilot. Has the owner of pprune contacted the miltary guys to stop talking about their weber barbies too or is that actually a bona fide professional miltary aviation subject which deserves all the coverage it can generate?
I can't see what the problem is with the aussies. Maybe we just know how to express ourselves but I will say that prune has become much more sterile and boring over the past 12 months or so. That in itself is a message I guess.
Whatever!
I can't see what the problem is with the aussies. Maybe we just know how to express ourselves but I will say that prune has become much more sterile and boring over the past 12 months or so. That in itself is a message I guess.
Whatever!
It has become very apparent to me over the years of running this website that one of the main problems facing you Antipodeans when it comes to professional aviation is that you have become too insular. You have come to believe that you are somehow special or so different from everywhere else on earth that you are a special case.
Danny, no doubt you have considered that perhaps "pprune" has grown above and beyond what you originally intended.
For as long as I have been a member there has been a "Dunnunda (sic) and Godzone", the byline of which is An independent family of forums covering all aspects of the Australian/NZ aviation scene.
The independence was promoted, the diversity of topics was encouraged.
Back a year ago there were 3 D&G sections, now there is 2.
Whilst I appreciate the opportunity to post, I enjoy being able to read and perhaps learn. I see this as pprunes strength.
You have the right to operate the forum in any way you wish and no-one is trying to take from you the huge number of hours and considerable monies that you have spent in getting pprune to this but please consider that yours and pprunes success is built upon the huge number of members that have taken to time to participate.
Last edited by missy; 12th Sep 2006 at 14:27. Reason: more bolding!!