747-400 D check cancelled due to big announcment
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well the latest thing i have heard is that the board (Dixson) is going to make an annouciment to the stock exchange on Wednesday afternoon weather this is going to be on the record profits or outsoucing of the work i am not sure. I tried to get more info from a source but the third floor of Admin 2 building at the moment has a close door policy. You walk in the door has to be closed before you talk. (so much for the open door policy).
It is getting to the point now where people just want this sign and sealed, although when the bosses came down to talk to us just recently they congratulated the workers for working through the tough times as per normal and like nothing has happening. the guys are just sick and tired of what is happening and they just want to get on with their lives look after their families and have direction back in there lives.
The flight attendants are also worried that is the aircraft go to MRO's that their lives are maybe in danager. It was mentioned the after watching the air crash investagations on the TV here in Australia and seeing the outcomes of the of poor Maintenance on aircraft there is now real concerns.
It would be intresting to see how the pilots feel about this possiblitly of sub stanard work of MRO's on the Qantas fleet.
It is getting to the point now where people just want this sign and sealed, although when the bosses came down to talk to us just recently they congratulated the workers for working through the tough times as per normal and like nothing has happening. the guys are just sick and tired of what is happening and they just want to get on with their lives look after their families and have direction back in there lives.
The flight attendants are also worried that is the aircraft go to MRO's that their lives are maybe in danager. It was mentioned the after watching the air crash investagations on the TV here in Australia and seeing the outcomes of the of poor Maintenance on aircraft there is now real concerns.
It would be intresting to see how the pilots feel about this possiblitly of sub stanard work of MRO's on the Qantas fleet.
The Reverend
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"The flight attendants are also worried that is the aircraft go to MRO's that their lives are maybe in danager. It was mentioned the after watching the air crash investagations on the TV here in Australia and seeing the outcomes of the of poor Maintenance on aircraft there is now real concerns"
A wee bit dramatic windsurfer. The only maintenace error problems to downright incompetence that I have experienced in my flying career all occured in UK and Europe. Never in the East; Hong Kong, China, Taiwan, Korea, Phillipines, Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, India and the Middle East. In case you doubt my credentials, I was a Qantas LAME route stations, before I transferred to flight ops.
You can reassure your flight attendants that any MOR that Qantas may choose will be a fully certified maintenance facility by all relevant authorities and will be staffed by Qantas quality control inspectors. You never know, maybe you'll be one of them?
A wee bit dramatic windsurfer. The only maintenace error problems to downright incompetence that I have experienced in my flying career all occured in UK and Europe. Never in the East; Hong Kong, China, Taiwan, Korea, Phillipines, Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, India and the Middle East. In case you doubt my credentials, I was a Qantas LAME route stations, before I transferred to flight ops.
You can reassure your flight attendants that any MOR that Qantas may choose will be a fully certified maintenance facility by all relevant authorities and will be staffed by Qantas quality control inspectors. You never know, maybe you'll be one of them?
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Hotdog you make it sound like a done deal
My eba states that all significant work place changes must be discussed with union and workers. I have heard of no discussions happening.so why do you speak of when and not if
My eba states that all significant work place changes must be discussed with union and workers. I have heard of no discussions happening.so why do you speak of when and not if
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Originally Posted by domo
Hotdog you make it sound like a done deal
My eba states that all significant work place changes must be discussed with union and workers. I have heard of no discussions happening.so why do you speak of when and not if
My eba states that all significant work place changes must be discussed with union and workers. I have heard of no discussions happening.so why do you speak of when and not if
Originally Posted by HotDog
and will be staffed by Qantas quality control inspectors.
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Oh- its going to a FULLY certified MRO, now I can relax.
I have my doubts that 1/2 a dozen "yes men " who will be the quality control inspectors are going to have much of an impact on quality, especially if it will means that the A/C will be delayed out of the hangar.
Qantas's quality control has traditionally been the high level of competence of the person doing the job. That is what it has built its tradition of safety on over the last 85 yrs.
Alas that tradition seems to be no more. Oh well, that's progress for you.
I have my doubts that 1/2 a dozen "yes men " who will be the quality control inspectors are going to have much of an impact on quality, especially if it will means that the A/C will be delayed out of the hangar.
Qantas's quality control has traditionally been the high level of competence of the person doing the job. That is what it has built its tradition of safety on over the last 85 yrs.
Alas that tradition seems to be no more. Oh well, that's progress for you.
The Reverend
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Domo, I don't consider it a done deal at all but a lot of respondents on this thread certainly allude to it. I was merely trying to moderate the tone of wing surfer's panic attack after I deciphered his English.
BHMvictim, no I do not want Qantas to outsource maintenance but have no control over any commercial decision they wish to make, you have to face realities, unpalatable as they may be. My main point being that Asian maintenance standards are not inferior to Australian standards and this I can state from personal experience, which is more than some of the correspondents on this thread seem to demonstrate.
BHMvictim, no I do not want Qantas to outsource maintenance but have no control over any commercial decision they wish to make, you have to face realities, unpalatable as they may be. My main point being that Asian maintenance standards are not inferior to Australian standards and this I can state from personal experience, which is more than some of the correspondents on this thread seem to demonstrate.
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Hot Dog,
the issue is not so much about the standards of all asian MRO's. Rather, it is about the standards of an MRO that has probably been recently expanded to accommodate 3rd party work.
It is whether that MRO has adequate experienced people on hand to do a good job or have they just rounded up bodies to get the job done. WHO WOULD KNOW!!
I believe that the only MRO's that have spare capacity are those doing D checks on freighters where the standard is most definitely lower.
If QF is to send D checks to one of these MRO's then it wont matter how much accreditation they have and a few Q.C. inspectors won't really have much impact.
Hot Dog you're probably lucky that you have retired!!
the issue is not so much about the standards of all asian MRO's. Rather, it is about the standards of an MRO that has probably been recently expanded to accommodate 3rd party work.
It is whether that MRO has adequate experienced people on hand to do a good job or have they just rounded up bodies to get the job done. WHO WOULD KNOW!!
I believe that the only MRO's that have spare capacity are those doing D checks on freighters where the standard is most definitely lower.
If QF is to send D checks to one of these MRO's then it wont matter how much accreditation they have and a few Q.C. inspectors won't really have much impact.
Hot Dog you're probably lucky that you have retired!!
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The reality with the QUALITY CONTROL INSPECTORS is that they do the best that they can whilst they are there.
When they are asleep or on their day off an awful lot of inspections can get signed off by a very small number of people in a very short period of time ie overnight. It has happened before and it will happen again.
When they are asleep or on their day off an awful lot of inspections can get signed off by a very small number of people in a very short period of time ie overnight. It has happened before and it will happen again.
The Reverend
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Well you guys have obviously made up your minds that it won't work and no matter what anybody says, will not be accepted. You are of course entitled to your opinions but why not wait to see if outsourcing will happen and if it does, which MRO will get the contract.
"I believe that the only MRO's that have spare capacity are those doing D checks on freighters where the standard is most definitely lower."
Numbskull, would you care to elaborate on the above statement? I spent the last 9 years of my flying career on 747 Classic freighters, many of which had letter checks carried out at Xian in China. In my company, there were no different standards between passenger or freighter fleets. What exactly is your first hand experience of Asian MROs?
"I believe that the only MRO's that have spare capacity are those doing D checks on freighters where the standard is most definitely lower."
Numbskull, would you care to elaborate on the above statement? I spent the last 9 years of my flying career on 747 Classic freighters, many of which had letter checks carried out at Xian in China. In my company, there were no different standards between passenger or freighter fleets. What exactly is your first hand experience of Asian MROs?
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With all due respect Hot Dog, If you spent the last nine years of your flying career in flight ops how the hell do you know what goes on behind closed panels and under insulation blankets and in the darkest corners of the structure of a 747.
Have you spent much time in a heavy maintenance environment in the last 20 years?
If so where?
We in sydney see the aircraft come back to the hangars with defects galore after foriegn mro's have their go.
Have you spent much time in a heavy maintenance environment in the last 20 years?
If so where?
We in sydney see the aircraft come back to the hangars with defects galore after foriegn mro's have their go.
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Hot Dog I have no first hand experience of any asian MRO's however I have numerous second hand reports from people who have worked at these locations and the story seems to be the same. A lot of inexperinced people and big inspections mysteriously signed off when no one is around.
Why should any of us accept that outsourcing should happen??? Why would we want it to work????
Hot Dog the aviation world is changing very rapidly, how long has it been since you have retired?? The glory days are over mate, why don't you just sit back and count the money in your bank account while the rest of us try and raise a family/pay a mortgage and watch our pay and conditions eroded to that of a Xian factory worker.
Why should any of us accept that outsourcing should happen??? Why would we want it to work????
Hot Dog the aviation world is changing very rapidly, how long has it been since you have retired?? The glory days are over mate, why don't you just sit back and count the money in your bank account while the rest of us try and raise a family/pay a mortgage and watch our pay and conditions eroded to that of a Xian factory worker.
The Reverend
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Turbo5B, I have spent the last 33 years of my aviation career in flight ops, the last nine years of that on freighters. As an ex LAME, I am fairly familiar with the dark corners of the fuselage and have made good use of that knowledge when accepting aircraft for a test flight after heavy maintenance. In fact, when my company purchased a Tristar L1011 from a prominent operator in Miami that was overhauled by their maintenace organization, my inspection of the "dark corners" of the airframe, delayed our delivery flight by one week.
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I am sure Hotdog used to pop out of the flight deck now and then and unbolt the lavs and galleys to find that his beloved MRO had removed all the corrosion!
Maybe he used to descend into the lower lobe and unscrew the sidewall linings and have a good look at the P clamps on the wiring looms.....brushing aside the accumulated dust, he couldn't find a single wire trapped between the metal of the clamp where the rubber had carelessly been twisted aside.
Did he observe any wires behind those linings, so tight that that could produce a note similar to the "B" string of a guitar??
Did Hotdog climb up into the crown and pull the blankets back and find any cracks due to sharp impliments being used to remove sealant?
Perhapps not. But all the gauges and lights on his F/Es panel turned and lit up as they should.... and weren't those flightdecks so well presented.. lovely and clean!
How does that saying go about books and their covers?
Maybe he used to descend into the lower lobe and unscrew the sidewall linings and have a good look at the P clamps on the wiring looms.....brushing aside the accumulated dust, he couldn't find a single wire trapped between the metal of the clamp where the rubber had carelessly been twisted aside.
Did he observe any wires behind those linings, so tight that that could produce a note similar to the "B" string of a guitar??
Did Hotdog climb up into the crown and pull the blankets back and find any cracks due to sharp impliments being used to remove sealant?
Perhapps not. But all the gauges and lights on his F/Es panel turned and lit up as they should.... and weren't those flightdecks so well presented.. lovely and clean!
How does that saying go about books and their covers?
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There was actually a couple of tech school teachers in the line 1 hangar last week wanting to know what happenend to the d check and what status the c check was at because they were writng a training package for Avalon on "HOW TO INSPECT A QANTAS AIRCRAFT",(at least they said that it was for Avv, could be for an overseas mob i suppose).
They wanted to see how we did it and to write a package around that
What the hell have they been looking at at Avv for al these years?
They wanted to see how we did it and to write a package around that
What the hell have they been looking at at Avv for al these years?