Ozjet is an airline!
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And having said that, go to the PPRuNe search and enter European Air Charter.
He is not even in their class.
And the training bonds? Unless I am mistaken and I hope the pilots concerned have done their homework, because if it does turn to tears they are an asset the Liquidator can come after for the unexpired portions to repay the creditors.
Eyes wide shut.
Still, they are born every minute.
Todays Sunday Times reports 60 odd Perth wannabe FAs paid $1,000 up front for "training" to work for "Antipodes Air Charter".
The airline "owned" by a Glen Poulton an ex BA FA whose last known address was a boarding house in the UK.
No AOC, no British Tourist License, not anything a cursory search would throw up and many warnings on PPRuNe to boot.
Still they all fell for Alan Bond, Christopher Skase, John Elliot et al.
Pilots, FAs and techies should not be allowed to enter any aviation contractual arrangements without a note from a responsible non aviation person.
He is not even in their class.
And the training bonds? Unless I am mistaken and I hope the pilots concerned have done their homework, because if it does turn to tears they are an asset the Liquidator can come after for the unexpired portions to repay the creditors.
Eyes wide shut.
Still, they are born every minute.
Todays Sunday Times reports 60 odd Perth wannabe FAs paid $1,000 up front for "training" to work for "Antipodes Air Charter".
The airline "owned" by a Glen Poulton an ex BA FA whose last known address was a boarding house in the UK.
No AOC, no British Tourist License, not anything a cursory search would throw up and many warnings on PPRuNe to boot.
Still they all fell for Alan Bond, Christopher Skase, John Elliot et al.
Pilots, FAs and techies should not be allowed to enter any aviation contractual arrangements without a note from a responsible non aviation person.
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Spot on BAe146 and Barbarossa
I agree with many others here that something is smelly about this new start-up.
In my opinion (as well as many others) Mr Stoddart hasnt got the formula right at all.
Firstly old B737's that are not fuel efficient at all when compared to the B737-800.
This will deter many an astute business person.
Secondly, lack of flexibility in timetables - businesspeople both want and need this!
Thirdly, no seamless capability for connections.
Fourth, no lounges such as the Qantas club for the travelling businessman.
Lastly to top it all off, if there is a breakdown they just cant get you on the next flight and your day will become very long and unenjoyable.
Reading about how the staff are treated overseas and owed alot of money (shafted was one word used by an employee) then I cant believe there are people waiting to queue up, only to be rogered royally!
I just hope it doesnt all end in tears.
I agree with many others here that something is smelly about this new start-up.
In my opinion (as well as many others) Mr Stoddart hasnt got the formula right at all.
Firstly old B737's that are not fuel efficient at all when compared to the B737-800.
This will deter many an astute business person.
Secondly, lack of flexibility in timetables - businesspeople both want and need this!
Thirdly, no seamless capability for connections.
Fourth, no lounges such as the Qantas club for the travelling businessman.
Lastly to top it all off, if there is a breakdown they just cant get you on the next flight and your day will become very long and unenjoyable.
Reading about how the staff are treated overseas and owed alot of money (shafted was one word used by an employee) then I cant believe there are people waiting to queue up, only to be rogered royally!
I just hope it doesnt all end in tears.
Last edited by TIMMEEEE; 13th Nov 2005 at 23:00.
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Must tell the folks who started TAA with a bunch of civilianized ex WW2 C-47s that they were wrong. Especially given that they started passenger ops. from a tin shed at Laverton! They should have waited for a new terminal then started with the shiny new DC-4s that they did in fact get not a long time after start-up. Having got the ¡°proof of concept¡± they went on to be first in the world (outside US) in getting the Convair 240, then the Viscount, Electra, 727 and DC-9, on and on in excellence until ¡°smart¡± businessmen got involved and stuffed it royally.
There is no suggestion that the OZJET operations will not be safe. As to whether they get the marketing mix right, time and the marketplace (and hopefully not needed the ACCC) will tell. TAA started with the phrase ¡°one fare for all-the lowest¡± which was not widely agreed with at that time when the likes of ANA (a QF style powerfully entrenched operator) were only selling first class.
The whole point of deregulation is that the market decides. That is a wonderful and long-overdue step forward. Wartime aside, all pilots and cabin-crew are volunteers. If they don¡¯t like it they¡¯ll leave and go on to greener pastures. As with the SLF. For every peoples Express that don't make it there's the odd Southwest that does.
I once flew with a great outfit in Eurpoe that started with a clapped out Caravelle and the pilots wives as cabin crew. That¡¯s the stuff of dreams. Safe? Yes. Business risky? Hell yes!. Fun and a creator of new jobs and concepts? Sure thing.
I am not an investor, will never fly with them and may never even see one of their aircraft. But as I hope we all do I wish them:
Good luck.
And, lest the odd reader hasn\'t seen this quote which I\'ll bet has supported more than one of we fools who have started airlines.....
\"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat.\"
Theodore Roosevelt
There is no suggestion that the OZJET operations will not be safe. As to whether they get the marketing mix right, time and the marketplace (and hopefully not needed the ACCC) will tell. TAA started with the phrase ¡°one fare for all-the lowest¡± which was not widely agreed with at that time when the likes of ANA (a QF style powerfully entrenched operator) were only selling first class.
The whole point of deregulation is that the market decides. That is a wonderful and long-overdue step forward. Wartime aside, all pilots and cabin-crew are volunteers. If they don¡¯t like it they¡¯ll leave and go on to greener pastures. As with the SLF. For every peoples Express that don't make it there's the odd Southwest that does.
I once flew with a great outfit in Eurpoe that started with a clapped out Caravelle and the pilots wives as cabin crew. That¡¯s the stuff of dreams. Safe? Yes. Business risky? Hell yes!. Fun and a creator of new jobs and concepts? Sure thing.
I am not an investor, will never fly with them and may never even see one of their aircraft. But as I hope we all do I wish them:
Good luck.
And, lest the odd reader hasn\'t seen this quote which I\'ll bet has supported more than one of we fools who have started airlines.....
\"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat.\"
Theodore Roosevelt
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Firstly old B737's that are not fuel efficient at all when compared to the B737-800.
This will deter many an astute business person.
This will deter many an astute business person.
Most business people couldn't give a rat's about how efficient their supplier is.
They only worry about the price the pay for the service or product they receive.
Give them on-time, high-quality, J-class service for a less than Y-class price, and some of them will give it a go. I don't think they'll be sitting there sipping their Seaview worrying about the J8TD9's gulping down the A1.
But if the age of the aircraft means reliability problems which lead to the schedule getting disrupted too often, then the innovators will soon go back to where they feel better served.
That's the marketplace at work...
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Barbossa, I don't know your agenda and I don't really care, but i would respectfully suggest that you retire your identity in these forums as your credibility is currently at an all time low. You say in your last post that my
"comments re-"professionalism" of their AOC process are laughable"
and go on with your drivel about the age of the OzJet aircraft, while offering no comment whatsoever regarding the experience and skills of the people in the organisation
Am I wrong in suggesting that the proper context for the word "professional" is the PEOPLE in an organisation and not the machinery or equipment that they happen to work with? If it is otherwise - please elaborate.
You go on to say;
"Unless I am mistaken they are paying the lowest pilot rates outside of GA in Australia. Your ignorance of this is breathtaking"
Well - you ARE mistaken and you know nothing about my ignorance or lack of such, so you can take a deep breath now.
Oh, and GAUNTY, as you have suggested yourself - GB is indeed a true professional and the point you raise -
"And the training bonds? Unless I am mistaken and I hope the pilots concerned have done their homework, because if it does turn to tears they are an asset the Liquidator can come after for the unexpired portions to repay the creditors."
- have been covered by him in writing to the satisfaction of all the pilots who have joined this new airline. The intent behind the bond is ONLY to ensure that the pilots getting the opportunity to fly a BOEING will return the service back to the airline who have made the capital outlay in endorsing them on a new aircraft type. So no, - there is not a chance that the newfound skills of the pilots can become an asset for the liquidator if it all turns pear-shaped.
I am sure that the concern from some of the posters in this forum, regarding the possible heartbreak it would cause the people who have joined OzJet is appreciated, but I doubt that there is a single person who have joined OzJet up until now, that would not have evaluated their own staus quo compared with the possibility of this new outfit not working out, before deciding in the favour of taking the plunge.
Nothing ventured - nothing gained - we would all be sitting around bitching about the lack of customer service at QANTAS forever, if it wasn't for people like Stoddart and the team who believe that his assessment of the level of discontentment among QANTAS frequent business flyers on domestic services in Australia is indeed correct, and that there is room for a niche market airline catering to people willing to pay a little bit extra to be given good service, good food and have room to stretch out or get a bit of work done while travelling.
Either way - this thread on PPrune will be interesting reminiscing for some of us a few years down the track
"comments re-"professionalism" of their AOC process are laughable"
and go on with your drivel about the age of the OzJet aircraft, while offering no comment whatsoever regarding the experience and skills of the people in the organisation
Am I wrong in suggesting that the proper context for the word "professional" is the PEOPLE in an organisation and not the machinery or equipment that they happen to work with? If it is otherwise - please elaborate.
You go on to say;
"Unless I am mistaken they are paying the lowest pilot rates outside of GA in Australia. Your ignorance of this is breathtaking"
Well - you ARE mistaken and you know nothing about my ignorance or lack of such, so you can take a deep breath now.
Oh, and GAUNTY, as you have suggested yourself - GB is indeed a true professional and the point you raise -
"And the training bonds? Unless I am mistaken and I hope the pilots concerned have done their homework, because if it does turn to tears they are an asset the Liquidator can come after for the unexpired portions to repay the creditors."
- have been covered by him in writing to the satisfaction of all the pilots who have joined this new airline. The intent behind the bond is ONLY to ensure that the pilots getting the opportunity to fly a BOEING will return the service back to the airline who have made the capital outlay in endorsing them on a new aircraft type. So no, - there is not a chance that the newfound skills of the pilots can become an asset for the liquidator if it all turns pear-shaped.
I am sure that the concern from some of the posters in this forum, regarding the possible heartbreak it would cause the people who have joined OzJet is appreciated, but I doubt that there is a single person who have joined OzJet up until now, that would not have evaluated their own staus quo compared with the possibility of this new outfit not working out, before deciding in the favour of taking the plunge.
Nothing ventured - nothing gained - we would all be sitting around bitching about the lack of customer service at QANTAS forever, if it wasn't for people like Stoddart and the team who believe that his assessment of the level of discontentment among QANTAS frequent business flyers on domestic services in Australia is indeed correct, and that there is room for a niche market airline catering to people willing to pay a little bit extra to be given good service, good food and have room to stretch out or get a bit of work done while travelling.
Either way - this thread on PPrune will be interesting reminiscing for some of us a few years down the track
Last edited by waav8r; 14th Nov 2005 at 08:00.
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elektra the world has actually moved on a bit from all of that and Teddy Roosevelts homily is true but wildly out of context.
VH-Cheer Up I'm sure the business people he is aiming at do give a rodents thingummy.
Our company has won two separate industry "Excellence in Customer Service", decided by clients, both three years back to back and "Excellence in Practice", decided by our peers, likewise. To a man, they insist on best practise with the most efficient in an extremely competitive market.
What we are talking about here are market barriers to entry, you wanna play with the big kids with the real money you gotta do better than warmed over.
If you lock yourself into a market on price with a flaky capital base and with a cost base consisiting of predominantly fuel crewing and maintenance , then you are at the absolute mercy of your competitors
I guess we'll see, I read the market in a totally different way and we turn over around $120 million a year.
waav8r right pleased am I to hear that young Bretag has not forgotten his lessons.
But their success will NOT be decided on the level of the professionalism of the tech and maintenance crew, by definition this should be a given and be invisible.
It will be fought out in the marketing strategy and the depth of the pockets.
The pressure will be on the aforementioned pros when it gets tight, the tech dragon rears its head and Stoddart has to come good on his promise in keeping the schedule intact.
Leaps of faith for
? I don't think it is useful to go there.
It might qualify as such were they to have to pay up front and I have a suspicion that the company did not have any options were they to get the numbers of crew they needed.
I, like you watch with much interest.
BTW
The A380 tour thread threw up the Clay Lacy website, I had a gander and there it was, "The Mission Statement". I met the gentleman many moons ago he may not remember me, but he has remained engraved on my memory.
His way of dealing with people was to me an inspiration.
Here 'tis.
is exactly how I remember him.
VH-Cheer Up I'm sure the business people he is aiming at do give a rodents thingummy.
Our company has won two separate industry "Excellence in Customer Service", decided by clients, both three years back to back and "Excellence in Practice", decided by our peers, likewise. To a man, they insist on best practise with the most efficient in an extremely competitive market.
What we are talking about here are market barriers to entry, you wanna play with the big kids with the real money you gotta do better than warmed over.
If you lock yourself into a market on price with a flaky capital base and with a cost base consisiting of predominantly fuel crewing and maintenance , then you are at the absolute mercy of your competitors
I guess we'll see, I read the market in a totally different way and we turn over around $120 million a year.
waav8r right pleased am I to hear that young Bretag has not forgotten his lessons.
But their success will NOT be decided on the level of the professionalism of the tech and maintenance crew, by definition this should be a given and be invisible.
It will be fought out in the marketing strategy and the depth of the pockets.
The pressure will be on the aforementioned pros when it gets tight, the tech dragon rears its head and Stoddart has to come good on his promise in keeping the schedule intact.
Leaps of faith for
the pilots getting the opportunity to fly a BOEING
It might qualify as such were they to have to pay up front and I have a suspicion that the company did not have any options were they to get the numbers of crew they needed.
I, like you watch with much interest.
BTW
The A380 tour thread threw up the Clay Lacy website, I had a gander and there it was, "The Mission Statement". I met the gentleman many moons ago he may not remember me, but he has remained engraved on my memory.
His way of dealing with people was to me an inspiration.
Here 'tis.
Clay Lacy Aviation exists to provide our clients superior aviation services when and where they are needed worldwide, to establish long-term business relationships, and to serve the greater community through an honorable, socially conscious and financially strong company. Copyright Clay Lacy
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Waaver8 - laughable again. Keep posting; your rhetoric is breathtaking. Don't know GB; sounds like he's quite a guy. So was the captain of the Titanic from what I have read.
Setting aside discussions of how they got to where they are today, the point remains that it is an ill-conceived and structured venture. The punters might not care about how much fuel the engine's are burning, but they will care about reliability. They will care about a limited schedule. They will care about no network, they will care about no lounges, etc etc etc. Given their only offering MEL-SYD at this stage and then..what is it next, er...MEL-ADL, then they are basically asking QF corporates to give up the QF discounts for the sake of one route; so, they pay more on all other routes. Makes a lot of sense, eh?
They will also care about the fact that these are old aircraft. They look old - they've so much "steel plating" riveted over damaged and tired areas that they look like battleships. The cabin will look good for a little while, but in an ageing airframe it wont be long before things sag...then it will be just tired old rubbish. Then we will see the mutton currently dressed up as lamb.
And you can have all of the professionalism in the world, but if the model wont work it wont work.
Oh, and by the way..administrators, or liquidators, couldn't give a sh*t about promises made by chief pilots. If its a bonded asset, which is in essence a financial obligation, then they'll go after it.
Suggest you take off the rose coloured spectacles mate - you can't see the wood for the trees, or, more pointedly, the sh*t from the shinola.
Seriously though, are there really pilots in Australia flying jets on high-capacity RPT operations earning less than OZJet??
Setting aside discussions of how they got to where they are today, the point remains that it is an ill-conceived and structured venture. The punters might not care about how much fuel the engine's are burning, but they will care about reliability. They will care about a limited schedule. They will care about no network, they will care about no lounges, etc etc etc. Given their only offering MEL-SYD at this stage and then..what is it next, er...MEL-ADL, then they are basically asking QF corporates to give up the QF discounts for the sake of one route; so, they pay more on all other routes. Makes a lot of sense, eh?
They will also care about the fact that these are old aircraft. They look old - they've so much "steel plating" riveted over damaged and tired areas that they look like battleships. The cabin will look good for a little while, but in an ageing airframe it wont be long before things sag...then it will be just tired old rubbish. Then we will see the mutton currently dressed up as lamb.
And you can have all of the professionalism in the world, but if the model wont work it wont work.
Oh, and by the way..administrators, or liquidators, couldn't give a sh*t about promises made by chief pilots. If its a bonded asset, which is in essence a financial obligation, then they'll go after it.
Suggest you take off the rose coloured spectacles mate - you can't see the wood for the trees, or, more pointedly, the sh*t from the shinola.
Seriously though, are there really pilots in Australia flying jets on high-capacity RPT operations earning less than OZJet??
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Barbossa
- as you clearly have comprehensively lost the plot, I suggest we just call it off and leave it to the market place to decide whether OzJet is a good idea or not.
You really ought to have your respiratory system checked before your next medical though - sounds like you may be anemic as well...
- as you clearly have comprehensively lost the plot, I suggest we just call it off and leave it to the market place to decide whether OzJet is a good idea or not.
You really ought to have your respiratory system checked before your next medical though - sounds like you may be anemic as well...
Does anyone else on this thread seem to think that BARBOSSA is actually Legal Counsel??? I am starting to think that now 
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Gaunty
In one of the first comprehensive studies of the effects of the 1978 deregulation of the US domestic aviation industry, the General Accounting Office found (I think in 1984, haven’t got the original document here) that the real benefits to the consumer and the industry came from new entrants. They didn’t even have to last that long but the fact that they could enter the market made it contestable and kept the “big guys” on their collective toes. That’s where the Teddy Roosevelt quote comes in. People willing to give it a go. Many lose, some win. Some like Compass 1 and 2, People’s Express, Laker and many many more show great promise and then fail for reasons other than the “model”. OK….that’s Capitalism 101.
The point is that we in Australia (though I don’t live there now) haven’t really ever seen the benefits of deregulation in the wider sense. Sydney airport is still curfew bound and dominated by a single major carrier. Had Sydney West (Badgery’s Creek) got up a la Gatwick or many many other second airports…then we might have seen domestic and international competition on a scale common in Europe but unknown in Oz. At any major European airport (and more especially the second airports like Gatwick and Ciampino) you can see daily carriers operating, some flourishing, some not, with names totally unknown in the narrow world of stifled competition that is the Australian industry. There truly is a world beyond Qantas dominated skies. But due to the direct but unpublished subsidies given to Qantas by virtue of continuing decisions to constrain the infrastructure and route access required for real competition thousands of jobs are not so much lost as never created. That’s why Ozjet is so important. Giving it a go is not just an Australian concept, it is the universal cure for the ills of monopoly domination.
I have no brief for Ozjet and know of them only through what I’ve read on Prune and the Ozjet website. But they are keeping the industry vibrant and allowing a few pilots a fresh chance to enter the industry. That’s why I have on the rose-coloured spectacles…I simply wish them well and yet know that their fate is in the hands of the market. They may well not last…..but their impact will.
In one of the first comprehensive studies of the effects of the 1978 deregulation of the US domestic aviation industry, the General Accounting Office found (I think in 1984, haven’t got the original document here) that the real benefits to the consumer and the industry came from new entrants. They didn’t even have to last that long but the fact that they could enter the market made it contestable and kept the “big guys” on their collective toes. That’s where the Teddy Roosevelt quote comes in. People willing to give it a go. Many lose, some win. Some like Compass 1 and 2, People’s Express, Laker and many many more show great promise and then fail for reasons other than the “model”. OK….that’s Capitalism 101.
The point is that we in Australia (though I don’t live there now) haven’t really ever seen the benefits of deregulation in the wider sense. Sydney airport is still curfew bound and dominated by a single major carrier. Had Sydney West (Badgery’s Creek) got up a la Gatwick or many many other second airports…then we might have seen domestic and international competition on a scale common in Europe but unknown in Oz. At any major European airport (and more especially the second airports like Gatwick and Ciampino) you can see daily carriers operating, some flourishing, some not, with names totally unknown in the narrow world of stifled competition that is the Australian industry. There truly is a world beyond Qantas dominated skies. But due to the direct but unpublished subsidies given to Qantas by virtue of continuing decisions to constrain the infrastructure and route access required for real competition thousands of jobs are not so much lost as never created. That’s why Ozjet is so important. Giving it a go is not just an Australian concept, it is the universal cure for the ills of monopoly domination.
I have no brief for Ozjet and know of them only through what I’ve read on Prune and the Ozjet website. But they are keeping the industry vibrant and allowing a few pilots a fresh chance to enter the industry. That’s why I have on the rose-coloured spectacles…I simply wish them well and yet know that their fate is in the hands of the market. They may well not last…..but their impact will.
Well said Elektra. Barb, I think you have lost the plot a little.
There are plenty of business travellers who don't give a flying **** about frequent flyer points because they are inconvenient to use, especially for a hard pressed businessperson who can't always plan their holidays three months in advance.
As for lounges, they are another waste of time, especially the Qantas ones. Sure, they are pleasant enough, and I note plenty fo people dutifully tapping away on their laptops. However when I travel, business or privately, I do not wish to spend my time waiting for an aircraft reading businessporn, watching stock tickers, planning next years sales budget or negotiating deals. I just want to switch off, people watch and relax.
It will be interesting to see how Ozjet goes. Let the market decide.
There are plenty of business travellers who don't give a flying **** about frequent flyer points because they are inconvenient to use, especially for a hard pressed businessperson who can't always plan their holidays three months in advance.
As for lounges, they are another waste of time, especially the Qantas ones. Sure, they are pleasant enough, and I note plenty fo people dutifully tapping away on their laptops. However when I travel, business or privately, I do not wish to spend my time waiting for an aircraft reading businessporn, watching stock tickers, planning next years sales budget or negotiating deals. I just want to switch off, people watch and relax.
It will be interesting to see how Ozjet goes. Let the market decide.
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Yeah yeah it wont work we get it (Legal council BARBAROSA)/Gaunty Timmee Amos 146 etc. The sky is going to fall down .
Anyone can have a guess!
It is one thing to speculate ,it is a totally different thing to HOPE it wont succeed.A trait all to common on this forum.
AS PILOTS we all hate(with a passion) the new era of pay for a job/endorsement.$35000 for Jetstar ,$30000 for virgin , $20000 for Jitconnect ,Eastern Airlink need I go on. There are threads by the VERY SAME doomsters here that detest the latest Airline practices
HERE is a new airline saying WE WILL BREAK THE CYCLE. Pilots DO NOT HAVE TO PAY FOR A JOB HERE....
YET As pilots you totally sh!tcan OZJET.
Unless your posts are politically motivated or you have something to fear from this Airline .How can this be bad for the industry.
Anyone can have a guess!
It is one thing to speculate ,it is a totally different thing to HOPE it wont succeed.A trait all to common on this forum.
AS PILOTS we all hate(with a passion) the new era of pay for a job/endorsement.$35000 for Jetstar ,$30000 for virgin , $20000 for Jitconnect ,Eastern Airlink need I go on. There are threads by the VERY SAME doomsters here that detest the latest Airline practices
HERE is a new airline saying WE WILL BREAK THE CYCLE. Pilots DO NOT HAVE TO PAY FOR A JOB HERE....
YET As pilots you totally sh!tcan OZJET.
Unless your posts are politically motivated or you have something to fear from this Airline .How can this be bad for the industry.
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No arguement there Rob.
However they cant be as bad as the old 707s DC8s F28s VC10s 727s DC9s etc that used to blast around the Aussie skies. otherwise.
Quite simply ;-
OZJET would not legally be allowed to operate the noise modified type in Aus. CASA would see to it Pronto .
Cheers.
However they cant be as bad as the old 707s DC8s F28s VC10s 727s DC9s etc that used to blast around the Aussie skies. otherwise.
Quite simply ;-
OZJET would not legally be allowed to operate the noise modified type in Aus. CASA would see to it Pronto .
Cheers.
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Time will tell TopC. I'm more than happy to be proved wrong but you already have a very noise sensitive population - our archives regarding runway use in places like Sydney give ample proof of operational preferance succumbing to the local population, media and pollies. And that's when they've had 10 or more years to forget the sounds of the past.
My judgement is that they will freak. Stage 3 conversions are a scam and a sham using tuning for monitored frequencies rather than significantly reducing the, err, crackle of freedom. My shoulders stretch from horizon to horizon but I have the fingers of a whore house pianist. That's from years of hand pumping de-min water into Speys and playing an SP177 like a Strad. We were driven out of the skies. 15 years ago Innsbruck banned us outright and it spread from that day. Certification acceptance claims are cynical sophistry - instead have a look at the landing charges thoughout Europe.
That's the real story - anything up to 500% surcharge for these beasts depending on time of day.
I suspect there are a lot of heads desperately shoved in the sand.
Regards again from the Towers.
Edited to correct the 1st Austrian field to kick us out
My judgement is that they will freak. Stage 3 conversions are a scam and a sham using tuning for monitored frequencies rather than significantly reducing the, err, crackle of freedom. My shoulders stretch from horizon to horizon but I have the fingers of a whore house pianist. That's from years of hand pumping de-min water into Speys and playing an SP177 like a Strad. We were driven out of the skies. 15 years ago Innsbruck banned us outright and it spread from that day. Certification acceptance claims are cynical sophistry - instead have a look at the landing charges thoughout Europe.
That's the real story - anything up to 500% surcharge for these beasts depending on time of day.
I suspect there are a lot of heads desperately shoved in the sand.
Regards again from the Towers.
Edited to correct the 1st Austrian field to kick us out
Evertonian
Perhaps this is why he was going to use the 146's? Use them into SYD & the old Fat Alberts into the rest of the network...just a thought.
Join Date: May 2001
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Hey S.O.T.G Good to see you around here again. Not so sure about the identity of the poster(s) in question though. There are many multi-headed trolls out there, but i think L_C was a bit less anemic than our new friend
Speaking of identity - you really have to get serious about changing yours as well - less than two weeks and counting, ehh
ELEKTRA - your comments are very incicive and you are spot on in your analysis. Your quote from Roosevelt is amazingly appropriate (amazing in this context - perhaps because when you look at todays US president it is wonderful to be reminded that there was a time when a US president actually HAD a brain and could use it. Heck, the one before this last one, even had a good head, just a shame he occasionally used his little one instead of the one on his shoulders...)
Sometimes a situation can get so stale and the position so bogged down that ANY change, in EITHER direction will be of long term benefit. The QANTAS board and senior management have abused their market dominance for too long, to the detriment of their employees, customers and sub-contractors. I shall welcome increased competition in the international arena as well, and hope for the sake of the Australian economy that our pollies wake up and look at the real consequences of propping up and protecting one private company to the detriment of others.
Speaking of identity - you really have to get serious about changing yours as well - less than two weeks and counting, ehh
ELEKTRA - your comments are very incicive and you are spot on in your analysis. Your quote from Roosevelt is amazingly appropriate (amazing in this context - perhaps because when you look at todays US president it is wonderful to be reminded that there was a time when a US president actually HAD a brain and could use it. Heck, the one before this last one, even had a good head, just a shame he occasionally used his little one instead of the one on his shoulders...)
Sometimes a situation can get so stale and the position so bogged down that ANY change, in EITHER direction will be of long term benefit. The QANTAS board and senior management have abused their market dominance for too long, to the detriment of their employees, customers and sub-contractors. I shall welcome increased competition in the international arena as well, and hope for the sake of the Australian economy that our pollies wake up and look at the real consequences of propping up and protecting one private company to the detriment of others.
You just watch. Qantas will make a donation to the airline noise local protest group and they will wheel out Harold Scruby, Clover Moore, John Laws and all the rest of the Sydney pack over the question of noise.