Ozjet is an airline!
Last 737 200 would have been? I remember Boeing selling us a stack of them to replace the DC9's but I can't remember if they had JT8's or if the CFM56 hadn't already come in. That was about 1980.
Uncle Fester, I think you will find competition law treats marginal pricing (selling at a price that still provides a contribution to fixed costs) as predatory, but I'm not entirely sure.
Uncle Fester, I think you will find competition law treats marginal pricing (selling at a price that still provides a contribution to fixed costs) as predatory, but I'm not entirely sure.
Sunfish
All 732 had JT8’s. As a kid I flew on them a few times to Cairns. As for the predatory pricing debate I think you will find that if QF matches the price of its competition instead of undercutting them then the ACCC wouldn’t see a problem with this. It’s when you deliberately undercut your competition or dump capacity on a sector that the ACCC will take them to task.
All 732 had JT8’s. As a kid I flew on them a few times to Cairns. As for the predatory pricing debate I think you will find that if QF matches the price of its competition instead of undercutting them then the ACCC wouldn’t see a problem with this. It’s when you deliberately undercut your competition or dump capacity on a sector that the ACCC will take them to task.
IIRC, Ansett had 737-200's up until '86/'87, when the -300's started to arrive.
Air New Zealand didn't dispose of their last one until '02 or something. One of them is still flying around with Airwork over there.
Air New Zealand didn't dispose of their last one until '02 or something. One of them is still flying around with Airwork over there.
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Let's get over the "old" stuff please. Its about as relevant as the offensive "4 engines 4 long haul" BS I see on some -600s around the place. There are aircraft as "old" as the 737-200s all over the developed world. Including the Chieftains that many young Prune cadets are earning their spurs on as we speak. Older a/c are noisy...thats all. Whats the average age of the 10 oldest QF 767s? The RAAFs F111s? The "remanufactured" Chinooks? The KC-135s that support the USAAF bombers and fighters that keep our underdefended part of the world safe? Let alone the B-52s!!!
Those that are drooling at the thought of the glorious demise of Ozjet should remember that there was a time when Hudson Fysh, Reg Ansett and Frank Ball etc all were "new boys". By the time TAA got going the Convair 240 had already made the DC-3 obsolete. They flew on for nearly 30 more years with TAA and many still fly. Antiques...or well maintained aircraft that did their job well? Or both.
Deregulation creates jobs. Three words...a world of truth. Get over the hatred and bias...newcomers change things and we're all better for it.
Aviation history has always been made by people willing to give it a go. I always liked David and Goliath in Sunday School....never quite saw a reason to change that view.
Safe flying
Those that are drooling at the thought of the glorious demise of Ozjet should remember that there was a time when Hudson Fysh, Reg Ansett and Frank Ball etc all were "new boys". By the time TAA got going the Convair 240 had already made the DC-3 obsolete. They flew on for nearly 30 more years with TAA and many still fly. Antiques...or well maintained aircraft that did their job well? Or both.
Deregulation creates jobs. Three words...a world of truth. Get over the hatred and bias...newcomers change things and we're all better for it.
Aviation history has always been made by people willing to give it a go. I always liked David and Goliath in Sunday School....never quite saw a reason to change that view.
Safe flying
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So you haven't listened to them taking off all day in recent years then elektra?
Forget economics and your pocket MBA stuff - when folks hear them launching they will be pilloried and shouted out of the skies. Populist press/TV will grab onto the coat tails. Target pax will fire up tall poppy syndrome.
This is really simple stuff - it's just that it appears to be 15 or more years since your folks have heard a civvy smoker for the 3rd time that day laying down its fabulous phonic footprint. Then we can look at your first paragraph again in its glory.
Regards
Rob
Forget economics and your pocket MBA stuff - when folks hear them launching they will be pilloried and shouted out of the skies. Populist press/TV will grab onto the coat tails. Target pax will fire up tall poppy syndrome.
This is really simple stuff - it's just that it appears to be 15 or more years since your folks have heard a civvy smoker for the 3rd time that day laying down its fabulous phonic footprint. Then we can look at your first paragraph again in its glory.
Regards
Rob
Evertonian
The sheer matter of age is perception really. It doesn't matter how many military types are quoted, would those crews pay to fly them if they weren't ordered? Would they pay for their families to fly in them?
The perception that OzJet need to overcome is the publics, not the industry types that know any well maintained contraption is as reliable as a new model.
The perception that OzJet need to overcome is the publics, not the industry types that know any well maintained contraption is as reliable as a new model.
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Rob,
Thanks for that...but it is only partly true. The people whinging about the noise (did they ever hear a real turbojet 707 or DC 8 take off?) are not necessarily the ones with bucket and spade paying the lowest fare to get where they want to go. An "old" 737 may still be legal and if so, can still fly when needed. And those on board wil care less....others may gurgle their chardonay and frown....but big deal. I've been a Captain for 20 years but there are an awful lot of a/c in the US and Europe- and maybe even Australia-built (and still in service) before I got my four gold bars.
Safe flying
Thanks for that...but it is only partly true. The people whinging about the noise (did they ever hear a real turbojet 707 or DC 8 take off?) are not necessarily the ones with bucket and spade paying the lowest fare to get where they want to go. An "old" 737 may still be legal and if so, can still fly when needed. And those on board wil care less....others may gurgle their chardonay and frown....but big deal. I've been a Captain for 20 years but there are an awful lot of a/c in the US and Europe- and maybe even Australia-built (and still in service) before I got my four gold bars.
Safe flying
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The more opportunities downunder the better however could anyone fill me in on ozjets' type rating-recruitment policy?
Are they going to follow 'industry practice' to quote Eastern's/Sunstate famous insult and get pilots to fund the employee training bill or will they be bold enough to break from the industry wide cancer and provide ratings.. live in hope eh?
Shags
Are they going to follow 'industry practice' to quote Eastern's/Sunstate famous insult and get pilots to fund the employee training bill or will they be bold enough to break from the industry wide cancer and provide ratings.. live in hope eh?
Shags
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Unfortunately old airplanes do cause problems. You can maintain an old aircraft as much as you like but there are still areas were age problems can be catastrophic. Think back to the roof peeling off the Aloha Airlines 737-200. What about the miles and miles of old brittle wiring that cannot be inspected, just waiting for a chance to short out and cause a fire. Having flown many an old aircraft, the older they get the more unreliable they get.
RIP Ozjet.
RIP Ozjet.
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Mr Wooby - with all respect - that's a load of bollocks! The cause of the ceiling rupturing open on Aloha Airlines was found and has issue has been resolved, evidenced by it never reoccuring on a 737 - the biggest airline fleet in the world!
With regard to electrical wiring - you probably have not been near an airliner when it is undergoing a D-check, have you?
And you are saying that B732 is unreliable?? I don't think so mate -they operate with a dispatch reliablilty better than 99% in Europe and most crew having operated the 200 and the 300-500 with tell you that the straight forward and uncomplicated engineering and systems on the 200 makes for an aircraft that is ready to go when you are!
Old airliners fall out of the sky not BECAUSE they are old, but because dodgy outfits in the third world lack proper regulatory oversight and can get away without maintaining them properly.
Stoddart is only the second owner of his 732's, the first owner being the Belgian national airline SABENA. After being purchased by Stoddart, they have been operated in the UK under under what is most probably the most stringent airworthiness requirements anywhere in the world, and they arrive in Australia with a fresh D-check. Simply put - they are absolutely immaculate inside and out. Do you really believe CASA would grant a CofA if there was any doubt regarding these aircrafts airworthiness?
Further - I do not believe that you will ever hear QANTAS officially using the "old airliner" rhetoric, as they themselves operate and have operated 747's for nearly twice the number of flight hours as OzJet's fleet average.
SMH this morining:
OzJet close to selling first tickets
By Scott Rochfort
November 9, 2005
AdvertisementAdvertisement
OzJet could start selling tickets as soon as Friday after Australia's fourth domestic airline cleared its final major obstacle in gaining an Air Operator's Certificate (AOC).
The Civil Aviation Safety Authority said OzJet's successful "proving flight" between Melbourne and Sydney last week meant the airline might gain permission to fly as early as Friday. After gaining its AOC, OzJet will be allowed to sell tickets.
"It all went well on Friday," said CASA spokesman Peter Gibson. "It's all hunky-dory, everything's fine," he said, noting that only several minor issues remained to be dealt with.
Mr Gibson conceded the timing of an announcement that OzJet had been awarded the certificate might now depend on the airline's publicity strategy.
"The other factor we need to consider is what OzJet may want to do," he said.
There are hints the announcement will be made late this week. OzJet declined to give any timing but conceded that it might have problems attracting publicity if it made an announcement at the weekend, given the world's biggest airliner - the A380 - is due to make its first visit to Australia on Sunday.
"That would be a pretty big thing to be running up against," said OzJet spokesman Geoff Harris.
In any event, it is expected the airline - which is already running five months behind from its initial timetable - will waste little time once it has its AOC.
OzJet had previously flagged it would give itself two to three weeks from when it started selling tickets to when it started its first flights between Sydney and Melbourne.
With regard to electrical wiring - you probably have not been near an airliner when it is undergoing a D-check, have you?
And you are saying that B732 is unreliable?? I don't think so mate -they operate with a dispatch reliablilty better than 99% in Europe and most crew having operated the 200 and the 300-500 with tell you that the straight forward and uncomplicated engineering and systems on the 200 makes for an aircraft that is ready to go when you are!
Old airliners fall out of the sky not BECAUSE they are old, but because dodgy outfits in the third world lack proper regulatory oversight and can get away without maintaining them properly.
Stoddart is only the second owner of his 732's, the first owner being the Belgian national airline SABENA. After being purchased by Stoddart, they have been operated in the UK under under what is most probably the most stringent airworthiness requirements anywhere in the world, and they arrive in Australia with a fresh D-check. Simply put - they are absolutely immaculate inside and out. Do you really believe CASA would grant a CofA if there was any doubt regarding these aircrafts airworthiness?
Further - I do not believe that you will ever hear QANTAS officially using the "old airliner" rhetoric, as they themselves operate and have operated 747's for nearly twice the number of flight hours as OzJet's fleet average.
SMH this morining:
OzJet close to selling first tickets
By Scott Rochfort
November 9, 2005
AdvertisementAdvertisement
OzJet could start selling tickets as soon as Friday after Australia's fourth domestic airline cleared its final major obstacle in gaining an Air Operator's Certificate (AOC).
The Civil Aviation Safety Authority said OzJet's successful "proving flight" between Melbourne and Sydney last week meant the airline might gain permission to fly as early as Friday. After gaining its AOC, OzJet will be allowed to sell tickets.
"It all went well on Friday," said CASA spokesman Peter Gibson. "It's all hunky-dory, everything's fine," he said, noting that only several minor issues remained to be dealt with.
Mr Gibson conceded the timing of an announcement that OzJet had been awarded the certificate might now depend on the airline's publicity strategy.
"The other factor we need to consider is what OzJet may want to do," he said.
There are hints the announcement will be made late this week. OzJet declined to give any timing but conceded that it might have problems attracting publicity if it made an announcement at the weekend, given the world's biggest airliner - the A380 - is due to make its first visit to Australia on Sunday.
"That would be a pretty big thing to be running up against," said OzJet spokesman Geoff Harris.
In any event, it is expected the airline - which is already running five months behind from its initial timetable - will waste little time once it has its AOC.
OzJet had previously flagged it would give itself two to three weeks from when it started selling tickets to when it started its first flights between Sydney and Melbourne.
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Waav8r,
"With regard to electrical wiring - you probably have not been near an airliner when it is undergoing a D-check, have you?".
Actually my friend, not only have I been near an aircraft undergoing a D-check, I have actually done them, being an ex E & I ame. Just as the reason for the Aloha airlines accident was found so will others be found. As aircraft age, problems develop, new areas of concern are found.
"With regard to electrical wiring - you probably have not been near an airliner when it is undergoing a D-check, have you?".
Actually my friend, not only have I been near an aircraft undergoing a D-check, I have actually done them, being an ex E & I ame. Just as the reason for the Aloha airlines accident was found so will others be found. As aircraft age, problems develop, new areas of concern are found.
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Mr Wooby...the Aloha aircraft was a 737-100, much much older but more importantly the problem there was very very poor maintenance. Ditto the Alaska Airlines MD-80 stabilizer failure near LAX.
Poor maintenance would frighten me way more than an old airframe. Ansett's 767s weren't that old were they?
Poor maintenance would frighten me way more than an old airframe. Ansett's 767s weren't that old were they?
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google "aircraft noise"
The world is interested in noise, here's but one of thousands of studies.
And this little bewdy and so on.
It's from the US so it must be true/good for us/work here.
The world is interested in noise, here's but one of thousands of studies.
And this little bewdy and so on.
It's from the US so it must be true/good for us/work here.
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Girls calm down!!
Am I right in thinking that the B737-200's which are being put onto the Oz register cannot fly within Europe at night because they are too noisy?
Are they being "dumped" in Australia because our noise restrictions are not as severe?
Am I right in thinking that the B737-200's which are being put onto the Oz register cannot fly within Europe at night because they are too noisy?
Are they being "dumped" in Australia because our noise restrictions are not as severe?
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Hi Bentleigh,
The 737-229's in question can operate in European airspace until 2012 at this stage.
They are actually not THAT noisy, it just depends on what you compare it with.
We could of course follow the tree-huggers back into the caves we once emerged from, and sit there quietly until NASA has produced the aircraft depicted in Gaunty's brochure. Cheers.
The 737-229's in question can operate in European airspace until 2012 at this stage.
They are actually not THAT noisy, it just depends on what you compare it with.
We could of course follow the tree-huggers back into the caves we once emerged from, and sit there quietly until NASA has produced the aircraft depicted in Gaunty's brochure. Cheers.