An Australian Dream Shattered
Does the 50k a year include the allowances, that most F/A seem to horde to pay off morgages, and thanks to the bunch of them who made the ATO start to tax allowances.
I am not saying you do a bad job, however you are on a world scale at or near the top of the tree in dollar terms for the position. They are trying to stop the QF pilots and others earning more who are on a world scale near the lower end of the scale for their positions so you don't think they are going to try and get you?
I can think of few people who have ever been in face to face service industries that stay in the same job for 20+ years, so being a F/A must have some attraction, most don't seem to go out much in slip ports maybe it is something else, perhaps it's a fair stack of cash.
I am not saying you do a bad job, however you are on a world scale at or near the top of the tree in dollar terms for the position. They are trying to stop the QF pilots and others earning more who are on a world scale near the lower end of the scale for their positions so you don't think they are going to try and get you?
I can think of few people who have ever been in face to face service industries that stay in the same job for 20+ years, so being a F/A must have some attraction, most don't seem to go out much in slip ports maybe it is something else, perhaps it's a fair stack of cash.
Whether or not FA's are over or underpaid, the concern, I believe, is the precedent this sets. They are part of the same company that some of us work for. If this is allowed to go ahead, what is QF going to look at next for tech crew? Let's think outside the box, and possibly beyond what effects you directly.
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Grrowler is absolutely correct. The attitude that pervades within QF, amongst it's employees towards fellow employees, is shameful. Pilots think CC are overpaid. CC think pilots are overpaid. Everyone thinks baggage handlers are overpaid. IT are incompetent and overpaid. Engineers (in certain ports) are not worth p!$$ing on. Long haul pilots are pitching against short haulers (A330). Long haul CC vs short haul CC (international routes). And so on and so on.
Managers are well aware of this sort of attitude, this divisiveness, and KNOW FULL WELL that they can target an individual group one at a time, that they will get no support from anyone else. Shameful. Shameful of them and shameful of us.
And we bury our heads, avert our eyes, in the hope that it won't be us next. Hmmm... right. Pilots - do you expect the CC to stand up and support YOUR claim for a pay level/ T&C's when GOD is targetting you? Somehow I don't think they will, given the attitude shown here and expressed all too often on flightdecks around the world.
It is high time that every employee in QF learnt a little mutual respect towards, and understanding of, EVERY other employee's job in QF. Eg, CC don't just get paid what they get for what they do - arguably a certain amount of it is effectively remuneration for spending literally HALF their life away from home. Yes, that point is arguable, some won't agree with me. However that is not really my main argument. If you want to pitch arrows at each other, denegrate each other, in-fight, bitch, etc, then you are going to destroy what collective standard of remuneration we have.
I'll say it again - it is high time we showed genuine, serious mutual respect towards, and understanding of, all other employees in QF.
Managers are well aware of this sort of attitude, this divisiveness, and KNOW FULL WELL that they can target an individual group one at a time, that they will get no support from anyone else. Shameful. Shameful of them and shameful of us.
And we bury our heads, avert our eyes, in the hope that it won't be us next. Hmmm... right. Pilots - do you expect the CC to stand up and support YOUR claim for a pay level/ T&C's when GOD is targetting you? Somehow I don't think they will, given the attitude shown here and expressed all too often on flightdecks around the world.
It is high time that every employee in QF learnt a little mutual respect towards, and understanding of, EVERY other employee's job in QF. Eg, CC don't just get paid what they get for what they do - arguably a certain amount of it is effectively remuneration for spending literally HALF their life away from home. Yes, that point is arguable, some won't agree with me. However that is not really my main argument. If you want to pitch arrows at each other, denegrate each other, in-fight, bitch, etc, then you are going to destroy what collective standard of remuneration we have.
I'll say it again - it is high time we showed genuine, serious mutual respect towards, and understanding of, all other employees in QF.
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I hate to say this,but with any industrial action,there will be scabs.Short haul pilots won't support the C.C.(most are already scabs).Long haul pilots will look after themselves.As long as they get fed they do not care who is in the cabin.So much could be achieved if ALL staff backed each other.
Never forget,management bury their mistakes,crew get buried with theirs.
Go for it FAAA!
Never forget,management bury their mistakes,crew get buried with theirs.
Go for it FAAA!
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AAP
Some unions trying to do damage: Qantas
October 21, 2004 - 3:44PM
Qantas Airways Ltd said some unions were doing their best to damage Qantas commercially by threatening industrial action over the decision to set up cabin crew bases in London.
Chief executive Geoff Dixon said the airline's plan to establish a new cabin crew base in London would contribute more than $18 million a year in saving.
"This base will contribute over $18 million a year in savings by reducing allowance costs and increasing crew productivity," Mr Dixon told the company's annual general meeting in Brisbane.
"That said, the overwhelming majority of our cabin crew will still be based in Australia."
Mr Dixon said the airline must explore every option to improve productivity and reduce cost.
"We make no apologies for doing all we can to ensure that our rate of growth is maintained and that our shareholders receive a return for their investment," he said.
Mr Dixon said since the decision was made to set up the London base, Qantas had spent almost four months in negotiations with the international cabin crew union.
"We have undertaken that none of our current permanent crew will lose their jobs as a result of this decision," he said.
"We have reached a collective agreement with the relevant union in the UK to cover staff in the base.
"And we are offering rates of pay that will ensure that there are top quality UK applicants competing for positions not filled by Australians."
Mr Dixon said the airline's approach was about balance, making the savings required to remain competitive, maintaining high quality and taking the interests of its employees into account.
"That said, some unions are more prepared to work with us than others," he said.
"Balance also means that Qantas will not be hostage to a union that is not prepared to changed and adapt for the benefit of the whole Qantas group.
"Some unions have recently been doing their best to damage Qantas commercially."
He cited threats of industrial action by international cabin crew at Christmas and rumours of plans to abuse "very generous" sick leave entitlement through "sickies".
"This campaign can only hurt the interests of all Qantas employees," Mr Dixon said.
He said Australian international cabin crew had work conditions "envied throughout" the aviation industry.
"Whatever the union does decide to do, we will, and we must, have contingency plans in place," he said.
"I hope there will be no industrial action, but we will ensure that we can fly our passengers and protect our business whatever happens."
Qantas has been accused of training 37 strike-breaking flight attendants on three month contracts to fly long haul routes.
Mr Dixon said Qantas was not ashamed of what it was doing.
"Nor do we consider as further alleged by the (International Cabin Crew) union that it is un-Australian to try and drive efficiencies through our company that will do much to protect our future," he said.
"It certainly would be un-Australian for us to stand idly by while union officials threaten to disrupt the Christmas travel plans of their fellow Australians."
Mr Dixon also said the Qantas was of doing business was being challenged by the rise in fuel prices to record levels and the billions of dollars foreign governments in the Middle East and the US are pumping into their airlines.
"Change will continue to be the one constant of our industry," he said.
"Our strategy to invest over $18 billion over ten years must continue to be underpinned by a focus on productivity and cost reduction, and flexibility in all areas of our business."
Qantas chairman Margaret Jackson told the meeting that the airline would not introduce discount travel or benefits for shareholders, because it would be inequitable.
""We do consider the issue of shareholder discounts regularly," she said.
"But the board believes that shareholder discounts would be inequitable."
Ms Jackson reminded the floor that a large number of shareholders were institutions.
She also said shareholders can participate in the airline's Frequent Flier program and take advantage of special airfares offered during the year.
However, she said the company would look at offering Qantas Club membership to shareholders of 10 years or more.
Ms Jackson was responding to written questions from shareholder relating the company's fiscal 2004 accounts.
She also said, while the airline posted a record profit in 2004, it had retained the dividend at 17 cents per share because of Qantas' need for capital.
"Qantas is in an intensive capital rebuilding phase," she said.
Qantas' 2004 dividend payout ratio was about 48 per cent.
Ms Jackson said dividend growth would probably lag profit growth until the payout ratio reached around 40 per cent, given the airline's current need for capital.
Qantas shares were up three cents to $3.36 at 1520 AEST on Thursday.
Brought to you by
© 2004 AAP
==========================================
Some unions trying to do damage: Qantas
October 21, 2004 - 3:44PM
Qantas Airways Ltd said some unions were doing their best to damage Qantas commercially by threatening industrial action over the decision to set up cabin crew bases in London.
Chief executive Geoff Dixon said the airline's plan to establish a new cabin crew base in London would contribute more than $18 million a year in saving.
"This base will contribute over $18 million a year in savings by reducing allowance costs and increasing crew productivity," Mr Dixon told the company's annual general meeting in Brisbane.
"That said, the overwhelming majority of our cabin crew will still be based in Australia."
Mr Dixon said the airline must explore every option to improve productivity and reduce cost.
"We make no apologies for doing all we can to ensure that our rate of growth is maintained and that our shareholders receive a return for their investment," he said.
Mr Dixon said since the decision was made to set up the London base, Qantas had spent almost four months in negotiations with the international cabin crew union.
"We have undertaken that none of our current permanent crew will lose their jobs as a result of this decision," he said.
"We have reached a collective agreement with the relevant union in the UK to cover staff in the base.
"And we are offering rates of pay that will ensure that there are top quality UK applicants competing for positions not filled by Australians."
Mr Dixon said the airline's approach was about balance, making the savings required to remain competitive, maintaining high quality and taking the interests of its employees into account.
"That said, some unions are more prepared to work with us than others," he said.
"Balance also means that Qantas will not be hostage to a union that is not prepared to changed and adapt for the benefit of the whole Qantas group.
"Some unions have recently been doing their best to damage Qantas commercially."
He cited threats of industrial action by international cabin crew at Christmas and rumours of plans to abuse "very generous" sick leave entitlement through "sickies".
"This campaign can only hurt the interests of all Qantas employees," Mr Dixon said.
He said Australian international cabin crew had work conditions "envied throughout" the aviation industry.
"Whatever the union does decide to do, we will, and we must, have contingency plans in place," he said.
"I hope there will be no industrial action, but we will ensure that we can fly our passengers and protect our business whatever happens."
Qantas has been accused of training 37 strike-breaking flight attendants on three month contracts to fly long haul routes.
Mr Dixon said Qantas was not ashamed of what it was doing.
"Nor do we consider as further alleged by the (International Cabin Crew) union that it is un-Australian to try and drive efficiencies through our company that will do much to protect our future," he said.
"It certainly would be un-Australian for us to stand idly by while union officials threaten to disrupt the Christmas travel plans of their fellow Australians."
Mr Dixon also said the Qantas was of doing business was being challenged by the rise in fuel prices to record levels and the billions of dollars foreign governments in the Middle East and the US are pumping into their airlines.
"Change will continue to be the one constant of our industry," he said.
"Our strategy to invest over $18 billion over ten years must continue to be underpinned by a focus on productivity and cost reduction, and flexibility in all areas of our business."
Qantas chairman Margaret Jackson told the meeting that the airline would not introduce discount travel or benefits for shareholders, because it would be inequitable.
""We do consider the issue of shareholder discounts regularly," she said.
"But the board believes that shareholder discounts would be inequitable."
Ms Jackson reminded the floor that a large number of shareholders were institutions.
She also said shareholders can participate in the airline's Frequent Flier program and take advantage of special airfares offered during the year.
However, she said the company would look at offering Qantas Club membership to shareholders of 10 years or more.
Ms Jackson was responding to written questions from shareholder relating the company's fiscal 2004 accounts.
She also said, while the airline posted a record profit in 2004, it had retained the dividend at 17 cents per share because of Qantas' need for capital.
"Qantas is in an intensive capital rebuilding phase," she said.
Qantas' 2004 dividend payout ratio was about 48 per cent.
Ms Jackson said dividend growth would probably lag profit growth until the payout ratio reached around 40 per cent, given the airline's current need for capital.
Qantas shares were up three cents to $3.36 at 1520 AEST on Thursday.
Brought to you by
© 2004 AAP
==========================================
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Jedda.
The majority of Short haul crew will be interested to hear you call them scabs.
Way over 50% of short haul crew were not part of 89. I assume thats what you allude to.
Perhaps you need to come into the 21st century. Get your facts straight.
The majority of Short haul crew will be interested to hear you call them scabs.
Way over 50% of short haul crew were not part of 89. I assume thats what you allude to.
Perhaps you need to come into the 21st century. Get your facts straight.
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L2p, don't sweat it. It is a dispatch deviation guide and there is no requirement for CC to know anything about it..... and I hope you guys let QF know that there is a line in the sand that should not be crossed, because AIPA sure doesn't seem to know about one..
I think I'm going to vomit! Told you so!
Going on about salaries of CEO's is a non event.
You need to do the Australian thing. Threaten the Qantas brand name. Nothing else will win you the battle.
Going on about salaries of CEO's is a non event.
You need to do the Australian thing. Threaten the Qantas brand name. Nothing else will win you the battle.
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yeah d'ya hear? Just do what amos and The Others did... nothing can possibly go wrong....... *screech* -ssibly go wrong..... *screech* -ssibly go wrong..... *screech* -ssibly go wrong.....
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Isn't the point driving this dispute primarily about the cap on numbers of foreign crew based overseas and not a wage dispute?
From the crew I know they just want assurances that Australian jobs won't be lost here while holding on to overseas based crew. The money always take over the argument and distracts from the real issues.
If you think it's OK for this to go ahead for QF cabin crew then surely you would support QF tech crew bases in LHR with foreign crew as well.
I'm sure GOD would love to see how much that would save him, or are European based tech crew payed the same as our guys over here? Somehow I don't think so.
From the crew I know they just want assurances that Australian jobs won't be lost here while holding on to overseas based crew. The money always take over the argument and distracts from the real issues.
If you think it's OK for this to go ahead for QF cabin crew then surely you would support QF tech crew bases in LHR with foreign crew as well.
I'm sure GOD would love to see how much that would save him, or are European based tech crew payed the same as our guys over here? Somehow I don't think so.
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Hmmm. History does repeat, doesn't it!
Hmmm. Wonder if we could REVERSE-scab, and take the jobs of scabs. Now, that would be somewhat fun!
Dang it, that black list would keep me out no matter how desperate they were. Bugger.
Maybe E.P and his ilk would have better luck. Oh, hang on, if it's not an A320, he's not interested, because he can eat his lunch in style on his A320.
Memo to self - stop drinking after 21:30
Hmmm. Wonder if we could REVERSE-scab, and take the jobs of scabs. Now, that would be somewhat fun!
Dang it, that black list would keep me out no matter how desperate they were. Bugger.
Maybe E.P and his ilk would have better luck. Oh, hang on, if it's not an A320, he's not interested, because he can eat his lunch in style on his A320.
Memo to self - stop drinking after 21:30
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Wages paid in Darwin.
An A Grade Electrician with one of Darwins biggest companies after a four year apprenticeship gets $ 19.00 per hr.
= $ 37544.00 per year
A Postformer in a Cabinetmaking Co. after 14 years in the same job gets $ 17.00 per hr.
= $ 33592.00 per year
I forgot, the Postformer above has also got a Forklift drivers ticket like just about everybody in that company.
An A Grade Electrician with one of Darwins biggest companies after a four year apprenticeship gets $ 19.00 per hr.
= $ 37544.00 per year
A Postformer in a Cabinetmaking Co. after 14 years in the same job gets $ 17.00 per hr.
= $ 33592.00 per year
I forgot, the Postformer above has also got a Forklift drivers ticket like just about everybody in that company.
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What about a hash-slinger in Maccas? How much are they on?
It takes a while to be qualified on all the equipment... the burger-machine, chip-friers, auto-drink pouring machines, memory items from the menu, CRM, dealing with drunks, marketing ("do you want fries with that..."), etc.... They should be on 70 grand a year too. Especially the ones doing a degree at same time.
AND if you're a maccas burger chic, you're ALWAYS working during your 10hr shift. Your "passengers" never go to sleep or watch movies.
It takes a while to be qualified on all the equipment... the burger-machine, chip-friers, auto-drink pouring machines, memory items from the menu, CRM, dealing with drunks, marketing ("do you want fries with that..."), etc.... They should be on 70 grand a year too. Especially the ones doing a degree at same time.
AND if you're a maccas burger chic, you're ALWAYS working during your 10hr shift. Your "passengers" never go to sleep or watch movies.
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Fri "The Australian"
Qantas faces strike threat
Steve Creedy and Brad Norington
October 22, 2004
QANTAS is preparing for major disruption to flights over the peak Christmas period, after unions yesterday warned of likely strikes over the airline's plans to base large numbers of staff overseas.
Qantas has admitted to training strikebreakers who would do the jobs of flight attendants and others expected to take industrial action.
The revelations came as Qantas flight attendants threatened to strike during December unless the airline put a limit on the number of flight attendants to be based overseas.
The Australian Services Union also threatened ground staff action if Qantas went ahead with plans to raise fees for its non-executive directors by 66per cent while workers received about 3per cent.
Strong prospects of industrial action affecting domestic and international flights over the busiest time of the year comes as the Howard Government foreshadows draconian reform of industrial relations legislation for a major assault on union power.
John Howard said last night he hoped the strike would not go ahead. He said he understood Qantas's reasons for wanting to base staff in London, considering it was an international airline in a global economy.
Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon advised passengers to book tickets with confidence, saying flights would go ahead.
Mr Dixon warned unions the airline would do whatever necessary to keep flying and to wrest further productivity gains as it seeks to shore up its record profits against an expected onslaught by overseas carriers.
Qantas executives yesterday defended the airline's right to train "strikebreakers" and said it would continue to do so where necessary.
The comments came after shareholders voted to allow a cap on directors' fees to be increased by 66per cent from $1.5million to $2.5million.
The airline is already facing industrial action by international flight attendants over plans to start a base in London and has been training 350 "contingency workers" to fill in their gap.
Mr Dixon accused the flight attendants' union of "doing their best to damage this company commercially".
"Our intention is to look after our customers - the same way, I might add, as we look after our staff," Mr Dixon said after the airline's annual general meeting in Brisbane.
"We'll fly and we'll take every measure to ensure that we do fly - it's our right."
Mr Dixon stopped short of saying he was drawing one of his trademark lines in the sand for unions, but urged workers to look at what was happening with airlines overseas.
He pointed to US carriers slashing wages and restructuring under bankruptcy protection, and government-subsidised carriers, as the biggest threats.
Qantas's latest industrial threat was revealed when Australian Services Union assistant national secretary Linda White told shareholders staff were angry about the 66per cent raise in directors' fees in light of the 3per cent pay rises workers were being offered in enterprise bargaining negotiations.
Ms White, whose union represents about 12,000 Qantas workers and campaigned against the directors' increase, said "significant numbers" had signed a pledge to back an industrial campaign if the pay rise went through.
"As far as I can see it is a 66per cent pay rise, the staff are very angry (and) there will be ramifications," Ms White said.
Shareholders ignored the union's pleas and overwhelmingly approved the request to increase the maximum amount available each year for directors' fees.
==========================================
Qantas faces strike threat
Steve Creedy and Brad Norington
October 22, 2004
QANTAS is preparing for major disruption to flights over the peak Christmas period, after unions yesterday warned of likely strikes over the airline's plans to base large numbers of staff overseas.
Qantas has admitted to training strikebreakers who would do the jobs of flight attendants and others expected to take industrial action.
The revelations came as Qantas flight attendants threatened to strike during December unless the airline put a limit on the number of flight attendants to be based overseas.
The Australian Services Union also threatened ground staff action if Qantas went ahead with plans to raise fees for its non-executive directors by 66per cent while workers received about 3per cent.
Strong prospects of industrial action affecting domestic and international flights over the busiest time of the year comes as the Howard Government foreshadows draconian reform of industrial relations legislation for a major assault on union power.
John Howard said last night he hoped the strike would not go ahead. He said he understood Qantas's reasons for wanting to base staff in London, considering it was an international airline in a global economy.
Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon advised passengers to book tickets with confidence, saying flights would go ahead.
Mr Dixon warned unions the airline would do whatever necessary to keep flying and to wrest further productivity gains as it seeks to shore up its record profits against an expected onslaught by overseas carriers.
Qantas executives yesterday defended the airline's right to train "strikebreakers" and said it would continue to do so where necessary.
The comments came after shareholders voted to allow a cap on directors' fees to be increased by 66per cent from $1.5million to $2.5million.
The airline is already facing industrial action by international flight attendants over plans to start a base in London and has been training 350 "contingency workers" to fill in their gap.
Mr Dixon accused the flight attendants' union of "doing their best to damage this company commercially".
"Our intention is to look after our customers - the same way, I might add, as we look after our staff," Mr Dixon said after the airline's annual general meeting in Brisbane.
"We'll fly and we'll take every measure to ensure that we do fly - it's our right."
Mr Dixon stopped short of saying he was drawing one of his trademark lines in the sand for unions, but urged workers to look at what was happening with airlines overseas.
He pointed to US carriers slashing wages and restructuring under bankruptcy protection, and government-subsidised carriers, as the biggest threats.
Qantas's latest industrial threat was revealed when Australian Services Union assistant national secretary Linda White told shareholders staff were angry about the 66per cent raise in directors' fees in light of the 3per cent pay rises workers were being offered in enterprise bargaining negotiations.
Ms White, whose union represents about 12,000 Qantas workers and campaigned against the directors' increase, said "significant numbers" had signed a pledge to back an industrial campaign if the pay rise went through.
"As far as I can see it is a 66per cent pay rise, the staff are very angry (and) there will be ramifications," Ms White said.
Shareholders ignored the union's pleas and overwhelmingly approved the request to increase the maximum amount available each year for directors' fees.
==========================================