Crew meals - an employer obligation to staff and customers.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
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Crew meals - an employer obligation to staff and customers.
Should crews who are rostered for duty over “usual” meal periods be provided with a crew meal, by their employer?
I believe so, for the following reasons:-
SAFETY. Any responsible employer who claims ignorance of the effects on the body’s sugar levels during periods of abstinence from nourishment, is either naive or untruthful.
Sugar levels drop, concentration lapses, tiredness follows, and consequently errors are made and may go unnoticed.
Crews on duty NEED sustenance, to maintain a level of alertness commensurate with the responsibilities entrusted to them.
SAFETY. Employers of other workers recognize the need for their ground-based employees to have set meal breaks during recognized meal times – breakfast, lunch and dinner – and to allow those employees time off work to go to the subsidized staff canteen, or nearby convenience shop, food shop, or restaurant.
Crew on duty quite simply do not have this necessary luxury (of leaving their workplace to eat) afforded them, due to flight schedules – unless employees are willing to roster crews off, over these periods.
Why is it considered acceptable to recognize the nutritional needs of ground-based employees, but to ignore those of crews on duty?
SAFETY. Food prepared at home, or purchased from a “grab & run” fast food shop, may not always be prepared strictly in accordance with ideal food hygiene standards, nor wrapped/packed and stored in the optimum medium for keeping it bacteria free prior to consumption, in situations where employees must take their own food to work, thus risking food poisoning whilst on duty.
Food prepared at home, but forgotten and left behind, insufficient time to prepare food for eating whilst on duty, or lack of funds, may mean the crew member goes without nourishment during his/her entire duty period – or shares the SAME food as another employee.
I believe, that in the interests of SAFETY of employees and customers, employers of flight crews on duty are responsible for ensuring that crews on duty are provided with safe meals.
I believe so, for the following reasons:-
SAFETY. Any responsible employer who claims ignorance of the effects on the body’s sugar levels during periods of abstinence from nourishment, is either naive or untruthful.
Sugar levels drop, concentration lapses, tiredness follows, and consequently errors are made and may go unnoticed.
Crews on duty NEED sustenance, to maintain a level of alertness commensurate with the responsibilities entrusted to them.
SAFETY. Employers of other workers recognize the need for their ground-based employees to have set meal breaks during recognized meal times – breakfast, lunch and dinner – and to allow those employees time off work to go to the subsidized staff canteen, or nearby convenience shop, food shop, or restaurant.
Crew on duty quite simply do not have this necessary luxury (of leaving their workplace to eat) afforded them, due to flight schedules – unless employees are willing to roster crews off, over these periods.
Why is it considered acceptable to recognize the nutritional needs of ground-based employees, but to ignore those of crews on duty?
SAFETY. Food prepared at home, or purchased from a “grab & run” fast food shop, may not always be prepared strictly in accordance with ideal food hygiene standards, nor wrapped/packed and stored in the optimum medium for keeping it bacteria free prior to consumption, in situations where employees must take their own food to work, thus risking food poisoning whilst on duty.
Food prepared at home, but forgotten and left behind, insufficient time to prepare food for eating whilst on duty, or lack of funds, may mean the crew member goes without nourishment during his/her entire duty period – or shares the SAME food as another employee.
I believe, that in the interests of SAFETY of employees and customers, employers of flight crews on duty are responsible for ensuring that crews on duty are provided with safe meals.
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Quite often in the regionals, with aircraft changes and impossible turn around times crew meals don’t make it to the aircraft (in some cases that is a good thing they are so bad) so when operations are informed the response is ‘go with out them we will give you a voucher!’ (There is probably more nutrition in paper.) So where does that leave the company if the crews are involved in an incident that may have a contributing factor of fatigue due lack of food…..
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Kaptin M
I agree, in fact the provision of crew meals should form part of the overall fatigue risk management plan.
In the overall plan the cost of a few meals vs the cost of crew fatigue is "petty cash".
I agree, in fact the provision of crew meals should form part of the overall fatigue risk management plan.
In the overall plan the cost of a few meals vs the cost of crew fatigue is "petty cash".
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Duck - while you're hot on the trail of fatigue management, for totally altruistic reason's I'm sure, would you consider campaigning for "free lunches" for all staff, in all fields of endeavour, who work long or antisocial hours.
I'd love to hear you justify why your trough should be filled with free grub while just about every other wage and salary earner provides their own catering during a normal working day. You have galleys, you have refrigerated compartments, you have ovens and you may even get on well enough with some of the cabin staff to have them toast your ham and cheese sandwiches for you.
I believe Qantas have some left over boxes that are a perfect size for an inflight meal. If you're quick you can snare a lifetime supply for a song.
I'd love to hear you justify why your trough should be filled with free grub while just about every other wage and salary earner provides their own catering during a normal working day. You have galleys, you have refrigerated compartments, you have ovens and you may even get on well enough with some of the cabin staff to have them toast your ham and cheese sandwiches for you.
I believe Qantas have some left over boxes that are a perfect size for an inflight meal. If you're quick you can snare a lifetime supply for a song.
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Dear highly envious SeldomFixit, you wax on
Well the reason PROBABLY might be something to do with the FACT that it's somewhat difficult to locate 7-11's at 10,000 feet above S.L.
..and that whilst we may "have galleys, you have refrigerated compartments, you have ovens" we cannot just wander - willy-nilly - as you earthbounds are able to do, at our whim and desire!!
For reasons obviously obscure to you, SeldomFixit - and those of your I.Q., pilots are restricted - by Law, and commonsense - in the distance that we can move from the flight deck...and the specific times at which we are able to do so.
Not that I expect you to fully comprehend the repercussions involved if we were to ignore those sensibilities!!
Try having someone read you the initial post (s-l-o-w-l-y), several times - then have a sleep on it, and do the SAME thing again....a few times!!
With 8 days OFF per month - EVERY month, Obie, I would hazard a guess that YOU - doing a "normal" 9-5 job, and being paid extra for working week-ends/early/late/Public Holidays - get far MORE time off than I!!
However, I am interested in trying to further the working conditions for my peers, and consequently put in the "extra half yard" for that cause.......GRATIS!!
Do you??
I'd love to hear you justify why your trough should be filled with free grub while just about every other wage and salary earner provides their own catering during a normal working day.
..and that whilst we may "have galleys, you have refrigerated compartments, you have ovens" we cannot just wander - willy-nilly - as you earthbounds are able to do, at our whim and desire!!For reasons obviously obscure to you, SeldomFixit - and those of your I.Q., pilots are restricted - by Law, and commonsense - in the distance that we can move from the flight deck...and the specific times at which we are able to do so.
Not that I expect you to fully comprehend the repercussions involved if we were to ignore those sensibilities!!
Try having someone read you the initial post (s-l-o-w-l-y), several times - then have a sleep on it, and do the SAME thing again....a few times!!
With 8 days OFF per month - EVERY month, Obie, I would hazard a guess that YOU - doing a "normal" 9-5 job, and being paid extra for working week-ends/early/late/Public Holidays - get far MORE time off than I!!
However, I am interested in trying to further the working conditions for my peers, and consequently put in the "extra half yard" for that cause.......GRATIS!!
Do you??
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________pleeeeeeeeeezzze Kaptain...
owwww..... 
that hurts, Kaptitano M. Where TF didja get that wacky font? It is making me go cross-eyed although that could also be a symptom of having to deal with nerds like RTA and Beanoss..... who knows........???????????
by the way, I get fed so much in my airline my gut is growing faster than my wallet. I eat several lunches and dinners every flight. I also enjoy using the 1st CLass crapper which is always very clean.... well not for long, I guess. It was named after it's inventor, by the way, Mr. Thomas Crapper.
Restricting your posting rights is becoming a tiresome habit!
It's probably time I considered making your banning permanent.
Woomera
that hurts, Kaptitano M. Where TF didja get that wacky font? It is making me go cross-eyed although that could also be a symptom of having to deal with nerds like RTA and Beanoss..... who knows........???????????by the way, I get fed so much in my airline my gut is growing faster than my wallet. I eat several lunches and dinners every flight. I also enjoy using the 1st CLass crapper which is always very clean.... well not for long, I guess. It was named after it's inventor, by the way, Mr. Thomas Crapper.
Restricting your posting rights is becoming a tiresome habit!
It's probably time I considered making your banning permanent.
Woomera
Last edited by Woomera; 23rd Aug 2004 at 00:25.
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Aw Haggy, it's nice to see you think of me. And I get to join the Nerd Herd too. YIPPEE!
I think BM is making a very important safety suggestion in regards to the OBLIGATION an employer owes to the proper and safe operation of a crew. International airlines fulfill this obligation, yet some Australian airlines do not. WHY?]
I guess those standards need not apply at QANDom, or more posters here would be taking it a bit more seriously. I have come to expect less from this forum's posters, but just vitriol for the sake of being so gets so bloody tiring.
Is it any wonder this forum is laughed at? It's occupied by little children who get offened when you call them names (yet THEY call that same name to Jet* pilots - Pot and Kettle scenario!). The underlying common theme is greed. "I'll have my cake, and I'll eat yours too".
Is it any wonder that nothing seems right in current Australian aviation when everyone is willing to bitch and moan, but couldn't be bothered for the most part to actually offer anything constructive? It all comes back to the ME ME ME factor.
To be honest, I am not surprised one bit in the way Australian aviation has panned out. With the relative demise of the AFAP, and it's replacement with more or less company run Unions (what's the bloody point?), pilot's haven't got a leg to stand on (not that many of them could care about anything that didn't directly involve them).
Proffesionalism just doesn't seem to exist much on this board. For shame!
Sorry to rant off and change topic.
I think BM is making a very important safety suggestion in regards to the OBLIGATION an employer owes to the proper and safe operation of a crew. International airlines fulfill this obligation, yet some Australian airlines do not. WHY?]
I guess those standards need not apply at QANDom, or more posters here would be taking it a bit more seriously. I have come to expect less from this forum's posters, but just vitriol for the sake of being so gets so bloody tiring.
Is it any wonder this forum is laughed at? It's occupied by little children who get offened when you call them names (yet THEY call that same name to Jet* pilots - Pot and Kettle scenario!). The underlying common theme is greed. "I'll have my cake, and I'll eat yours too".
Is it any wonder that nothing seems right in current Australian aviation when everyone is willing to bitch and moan, but couldn't be bothered for the most part to actually offer anything constructive? It all comes back to the ME ME ME factor.
To be honest, I am not surprised one bit in the way Australian aviation has panned out. With the relative demise of the AFAP, and it's replacement with more or less company run Unions (what's the bloody point?), pilot's haven't got a leg to stand on (not that many of them could care about anything that didn't directly involve them).
Proffesionalism just doesn't seem to exist much on this board. For shame!
Sorry to rant off and change topic.
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Proffesionalism
Actually I don't think that many pilots actually even read this forum so who would care what people write in it? I wouldn't judge world pilot standards by what you read here.
Especially my posts..................
Everything seems perfactly right in the aussie air scene to MOI except that I am getting fatter by the day.
I think an extra hosty should be rostered for crews with fat pilots and she could stand behind the guy with a big huge rubber belt around his gut and do a manual version of one of those fat-jiggling machines on his PHAT GUT.
For hours.
And I don't judge the airline industry by your totally ludicrous and irrelevent posts!
Do your parents know what you get up to on their computer?
Woomera
Last edited by Woomera; 23rd Aug 2004 at 00:27.
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For ONCe we agree!
My last medical renewal ellicited an interesting letter from CASA Medical - they basically said I was too bloody fat to have free and full operation of an aircraft controls, and that my weight COULD impare my abilities in a walkaround yada yada yada...
Needless to say, I passed (after having to do a bloody Glucose tolerance test - not even a HINT of diabetes), but they "suggested" I lose 12 kilograms...
Is THAT discrimination, saying I am too fat?
I sometimes make reference to jason Hassard. I guess I am catching him, except there are no DC-6's left for me to fly.
My last medical renewal ellicited an interesting letter from CASA Medical - they basically said I was too bloody fat to have free and full operation of an aircraft controls, and that my weight COULD impare my abilities in a walkaround yada yada yada...
Needless to say, I passed (after having to do a bloody Glucose tolerance test - not even a HINT of diabetes), but they "suggested" I lose 12 kilograms...
Is THAT discrimination, saying I am too fat?
I sometimes make reference to jason Hassard. I guess I am catching him, except there are no DC-6's left for me to fly.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Thread Starter
It's spelling time, and air-hag goes to the BOTTOM of the class ...whip whip....with his/her folly
.......sooooooo, back on topic..
CREW MEALS.......can they make a difference to SAFETY?
Everything seems perfactly right i
CREW MEALS.......can they make a difference to SAFETY?
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Yeah......... was it the walk-around or did you have trouble pulling the prong back far enough for a normal landing?
That's gonna be my problem soon. Still, chicks don't like skinny guys do they???
Yes it is discrimination. Someone is discriminating against you on the basis of your big PHAT gut. The question is, is that illegal?
I discriminated against a fat girl the other day in favour of her slimmer, better-looking friend so you see it happens naturally in life every day!
Yes, well-picked up by Mon Kapitano Emm. I thought about going back and whiting it out but couldn't be arsed. And I never thought it'd be YOU to sink the boot in El Kapitano?!?!?? Well ok, you get the point for it...
That's gonna be my problem soon. Still, chicks don't like skinny guys do they???
Yes it is discrimination. Someone is discriminating against you on the basis of your big PHAT gut. The question is, is that illegal?
I discriminated against a fat girl the other day in favour of her slimmer, better-looking friend so you see it happens naturally in life every day!
Yes, well-picked up by Mon Kapitano Emm. I thought about going back and whiting it out but couldn't be arsed. And I never thought it'd be YOU to sink the boot in El Kapitano?!?!?? Well ok, you get the point for it...
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Thread Starter
....going back and whiting it out...
............and "Yes, I AM a boot sinker"......and "Yes, I TOO have discriminated when choosing Love Godesses" ......or did THEY choose moir??????? Shaven ..or UNshaven????Ummm...yes....I hope to get my point across!!
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Thread Starter
To 5 Left & Right, courtesy of Binos Esq.,
"If you read the thread instead of baying from the sidelines just to hear your own voice you'd know the issues involved"
(Thanks Binos )
"If you read the thread instead of baying from the sidelines just to hear your own voice you'd know the issues involved"
(Thanks Binos
)
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So KM, has your company just taken away the crew meals?
I presume that is th emotivation for starting such a thread.
Incidentally I agree that crew meals must be prvided for the same reasons you put forward.
I presume that is th emotivation for starting such a thread.
Incidentally I agree that crew meals must be prvided for the same reasons you put forward.
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Is it just me - or are there more and more posters these days treating this and other forums (fora for the inevitable rapid and witty riposte) as if they are in a chat room? Stupid comments, fired off without any thought. Gets a little tedious.