Crew meals - an employer obligation to staff and customers.
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Oh no Dome, i thought a lot about my post, just like Captain M thinks a lot about his tummy.
But please, a post (rather more like a whinge) because you dont get lunch??
Does your flight attendent get lunch? Does the Loader get lunch. Does the check in person get lunch. Do the engineers get lunch. They all have in important job to do, they all can suffer from fatigue and low blood sugar etc.
Maybe i should start a post on the importance of taking a piss when you need to.
But please, a post (rather more like a whinge) because you dont get lunch??
Does your flight attendent get lunch? Does the Loader get lunch. Does the check in person get lunch. Do the engineers get lunch. They all have in important job to do, they all can suffer from fatigue and low blood sugar etc.
Maybe i should start a post on the importance of taking a piss when you need to.
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And as QF9 prepares to line up, the Captain calls for Runway Entering Checks.
Captain: Landing Lights?
F/O: On.
Captain: Transponder?
F/O: On.
Captain: Engine Start Switches?
F/O: On.
Captain: Flight Crew properly nourished and good to go?
F/O: Nahh, sorry Cap - I didn't get lunch.
Captain: Well... Looks like it's back to the gate.
Soulman.
Captain: Landing Lights?
F/O: On.
Captain: Transponder?
F/O: On.
Captain: Engine Start Switches?
F/O: On.
Captain: Flight Crew properly nourished and good to go?
F/O: Nahh, sorry Cap - I didn't get lunch.
Captain: Well... Looks like it's back to the gate.
Soulman.
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Thread Starter
Does your flight attendent get lunch? Does the Loader get lunch. Does the check in person get lunch. Do the engineers get lunch.
Loaders, check-in personnel, and engineers (except F/E`s) are all ground jobs, meaning they have access, AT ALL TIMES, to facilities such as staff canteens, cafeterias, convenience stores, etc.
Without demeaning their positions, if ANY of them get food poisoning, low blood sugar, or any other incapacitating illness, they are able to remove themselves from their workplace and not be a threat to the safety of the aircraft.
Similarly, a sick F/A is not an immediate threat to the safety of passengers.
"No" ys120fz, my employer has not taken away crew meals from the pilots. I believe that crew meals are an important issue for LCC employed pilots, and see that Tiger Airways (for example) has made up some feeble, bs excuse as to why they won`t be supplying their pilots with crew meals...and "No", I have not/am not made application to that mob.
I believe ths is a Safety issue - the cost of which would work out at only a couple of cents per pax.
From 5 yo L & R..."If you want lunch that bad then take your own." The hygene and storage standards that airline meals provide cannot be guaranteed to be met by the individuals - how safe is a chicken/fish/seafood meal prepared at home some 12 hours earlier going to be?
Crew meals, like other safety items onboard an aircraft are the responsibility of the employer, imo.
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So, let me see if I understand the majority of posters here (most of whom I ardently assume are NOT flight crew).
You lot are saying that it is not the respnsibility of the airline to provide it's technical crew with sustainence? You are saying that it is not a safety concern, with, oh, say 200 souls on board?
OK, sure, let's tell the punters that the Captain and F/O haven't been, and won't be fed. The Captain and F/O are now running on fat reserves, and their blood glucose levels are depleting, ergo energy. That depletion affects brain function, and speed of thought and motion, and reaction time.
GREAT IDEA! Fools...
Whatever happened to the old "Chicken for the Captain, beef for the F/O" routine?
I keep forgetting that we simply run on caffeine.
You lot are saying that it is not the respnsibility of the airline to provide it's technical crew with sustainence? You are saying that it is not a safety concern, with, oh, say 200 souls on board?
OK, sure, let's tell the punters that the Captain and F/O haven't been, and won't be fed. The Captain and F/O are now running on fat reserves, and their blood glucose levels are depleting, ergo energy. That depletion affects brain function, and speed of thought and motion, and reaction time.
GREAT IDEA! Fools...
Whatever happened to the old "Chicken for the Captain, beef for the F/O" routine?
I keep forgetting that we simply run on caffeine.
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I'd see it more as an issue of accessibility.
You can't always hop off the aircraft to buy your lunch/dinner (or whatever food) even if the aircraft does get on the ground, if you are on a tight turnaround, whereas a lot of ground-based people can physically get to a shop to procure their own lunch.
Because they do not have an easy access to food (they can't even ask someone else "in the office" to get it for them
), I do think the employer would be responsible for providing the flight crew with an opportunity to have the food (even if the staff had to buy it, if the company is being a really tight whatever).
I do believe that not eating properly can be a flight hazard, for the same reason already stated by RTA.
I do not really see that hyginie should be a major issue though, whether the crew prepared their own food at home or bought it from a kiosk or the food is provided on the aircraft. It's just called basic food hygiene that everyone should observe, whether one is preparing food for him/herself or others.
You can't always hop off the aircraft to buy your lunch/dinner (or whatever food) even if the aircraft does get on the ground, if you are on a tight turnaround, whereas a lot of ground-based people can physically get to a shop to procure their own lunch.
Because they do not have an easy access to food (they can't even ask someone else "in the office" to get it for them
), I do think the employer would be responsible for providing the flight crew with an opportunity to have the food (even if the staff had to buy it, if the company is being a really tight whatever). I do believe that not eating properly can be a flight hazard, for the same reason already stated by RTA.
I do not really see that hyginie should be a major issue though, whether the crew prepared their own food at home or bought it from a kiosk or the food is provided on the aircraft. It's just called basic food hygiene that everyone should observe, whether one is preparing food for him/herself or others.
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km I agree. In fact in Oz, it is a requirement that 'the employer provide the opportunity for crew to take sustenance at appropriate times'.
Going along with that, one woul dhave to assume if they don't provide the opportunity, then they must provide the sustenance to be taken onboard.
Earthlings find it difficult to believe that you can't park and nip into a restaurant at 35,000'.
Going along with that, one woul dhave to assume if they don't provide the opportunity, then they must provide the sustenance to be taken onboard.
Earthlings find it difficult to believe that you can't park and nip into a restaurant at 35,000'.
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Thread Starter
Not only mere earthlings, ys120fz, but even more God-like creations - such as some airline managements (and I will NOT mention Tiger Airways, nor Virgin Blue as examples) - apparently look at the issue more from a pax point of view, ie. one sector, however earthlings and Glc's seem unaware that pilots may often be busier during transits (the time on the ground between flights) than inflight for various reasons, eg. maintenance problems, flight planning, pre-flight preparation, etc, etc, which precludes us from getting anywhere near a food outlet even IF one happens to be nearby.
Unlike just about EVERY other employee, flight crew cannot plan on taking meals at pre-determined times - the Safety and control of the aircraft (eg. avoiding weather, following ATC instructions....) must ALWAYS take priority, which may mean that on some flights - even though they are during the regular meal hours when every other worker "downs tools" - it might not be possible, at all, to eat. And then after blocking in, conditions may prevail that again preclude the crew from eating during the turnaround.
That is a couple of the reasons I believe the employer should provide the sustenance necessary to ensure that it is available - safely prepared, and safely stored, until able to be eaten.
Taking a few sandwiches along (that were possibly prepared hours before the first flight departs) and leaving them sitting in your nav bag for perhaps up to 8 or 10 hours, because the employer is trying to save a couple of cents (per pax), is inviting E. Coli along as well!!
Unlike just about EVERY other employee, flight crew cannot plan on taking meals at pre-determined times - the Safety and control of the aircraft (eg. avoiding weather, following ATC instructions....) must ALWAYS take priority, which may mean that on some flights - even though they are during the regular meal hours when every other worker "downs tools" - it might not be possible, at all, to eat. And then after blocking in, conditions may prevail that again preclude the crew from eating during the turnaround.
That is a couple of the reasons I believe the employer should provide the sustenance necessary to ensure that it is available - safely prepared, and safely stored, until able to be eaten.
Taking a few sandwiches along (that were possibly prepared hours before the first flight departs) and leaving them sitting in your nav bag for perhaps up to 8 or 10 hours, because the employer is trying to save a couple of cents (per pax), is inviting E. Coli along as well!!
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Kaptin M,
Whilst i've never flown up the pointy end, I do agree with your comments 100%.
The company DOES have an obligation to ensure that their tech crew are properly nourished whilst on duty. As another poster above has mentioned, it's not like you can just nip down to the staff canteen and pick yourself up a snack - particularly when doing long sectors or have turnarounds in outports without adequate eating facilities (or a break in which to eat your meal!).
It's all very well for the company to throw you a meal voucher in order to fulfil their obligations, but that doesn't really address the need for sustenance. Having seen many a crew meal in my time, I can agree wholeheartedly with the poster who lamented that the packaging would be more nutritious than the contents. This is especially true of regional carriers.
Just my thoughts.
SG
Whilst i've never flown up the pointy end, I do agree with your comments 100%.
The company DOES have an obligation to ensure that their tech crew are properly nourished whilst on duty. As another poster above has mentioned, it's not like you can just nip down to the staff canteen and pick yourself up a snack - particularly when doing long sectors or have turnarounds in outports without adequate eating facilities (or a break in which to eat your meal!).
It's all very well for the company to throw you a meal voucher in order to fulfil their obligations, but that doesn't really address the need for sustenance. Having seen many a crew meal in my time, I can agree wholeheartedly with the poster who lamented that the packaging would be more nutritious than the contents. This is especially true of regional carriers.
Just my thoughts.
SG
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Just a minor point, Kap, although I may have missed it. I agree that an employer should provide a meal for Tech Crew in flight, but is that same Tech Crew prepared to reimburse the employer the cost of the meal? Is there some reason that you (collectively, not personal) should get free food at your place of employment and, if so, WHY?
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.
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Thread Starter
If you agree that Tech Crew in flight should be provided with a meal(s) whilst on duty, then I assume it is on the grounds of Safety.
So should Tech Crew also be responsible for providing other Safety equipment on board, eg. torches in the cockpit, crash axe, O2, safety harnesses, etc, or is the provision of Safety equipment an employer responsibility?
So should Tech Crew also be responsible for providing other Safety equipment on board, eg. torches in the cockpit, crash axe, O2, safety harnesses, etc, or is the provision of Safety equipment an employer responsibility?
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You are a devious man, Kap, you know EXACTLY what I meant, the food you want the employer to supply has to be paid for, why not by you? I would be in the same physiological state as you should I neglect my regular food intake; assuming I was still a sim. tech. would that preclude me from repairing a 35Kv Power Supply on the grounds of safety? AN didn't pay me to eat, why should your employer pay you? I said nothing about safety grounds, and to equate a/c safety equipment with crew fatigue is drawing a long bow, by even your standards. I suppose your reasoning could be that torches, O2, harnesses, etc., are replenished as required, why not crew food? Neat, but not in my book - if it is my responsibility to feed myself at work, then you can do the same. The fact that your employer can provide the food on-board does not preclude you from your responsibility of paying for it.
Over to you,
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.
Over to you,
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.
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TNO,
Surely you can see an ALARMING gap between aircrew, and a sim-tech! A sim tech can stop, walk around, grab a meal, and go back to work (all the ones I ever worked around did!).
If a sim tech depletes his energy reserves, starts muddling things, and the like, who can he hurt except himself (unless he falls onto someone from the gantry)?
Aircrew cannot stop what they are doing, stand up, walk around, grab and sanga, have a chat, and go back to work.
If aircrew deplete their energy reserves, starts muddling things, and the like, who can they hurt? Couple hundred on board, and potentially thousands on the ground...
I know you deliberately seperated your response from safety concerns, but everyone seems to shirk the issue.
If it came down to management deducting a small amount out of paypackets for meals, then so be it, but it is not a good thing (most international airlines provide food for tech crew!). A sandwich or two would merely cost the airline PENNIES, and surely their profit, EVEN on low cost sectors, covers the cost!
I still ardently believe, as Kap does, that it is a safety obligation OWED to not only itself and crew, but the travelling public.
Surely you can see an ALARMING gap between aircrew, and a sim-tech! A sim tech can stop, walk around, grab a meal, and go back to work (all the ones I ever worked around did!).
If a sim tech depletes his energy reserves, starts muddling things, and the like, who can he hurt except himself (unless he falls onto someone from the gantry)?
Aircrew cannot stop what they are doing, stand up, walk around, grab and sanga, have a chat, and go back to work.
If aircrew deplete their energy reserves, starts muddling things, and the like, who can they hurt? Couple hundred on board, and potentially thousands on the ground...
I know you deliberately seperated your response from safety concerns, but everyone seems to shirk the issue.
If it came down to management deducting a small amount out of paypackets for meals, then so be it, but it is not a good thing (most international airlines provide food for tech crew!). A sandwich or two would merely cost the airline PENNIES, and surely their profit, EVEN on low cost sectors, covers the cost!
I still ardently believe, as Kap does, that it is a safety obligation OWED to not only itself and crew, but the travelling public.
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PLEASE, PLEASE tell me that you are NOT saying a fit Airline Pilot will become so incapacitated to be dangerous, if he doesn't get his Lunch on time? 
Unless you are operating 10-12 hour flights surely it is not a big problem?
During the Pilot's Strike in 1989, the America West Pilots used to duck into the terminal and happily buy their own Lunch during turnrounds, didn't seem to worry them.
Unless you are operating 10-12 hour flights surely it is not a big problem?
During the Pilot's Strike in 1989, the America West Pilots used to duck into the terminal and happily buy their own Lunch during turnrounds, didn't seem to worry them.
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Ok! Idiots, (Owl, planemade2 and others) here's the challenge...
have an early dinner, get an early night and set the alarm for 0430 (that's 4:30am for the idiots, unlike Owl, who don't know what I'm talking about).
While you're showering, shaving etc, grab a cup of tea and a slice of toast and then into the car by 0530 arriving at work by 0600 (or thereabouts).
Now, let's work through, shall we, until 1700( 5:00pm for the idiots) without any food or liquids or sustenance of any kind, and then come back and tell us all about it!
You know, like, how it was a piece of cake and no drama at all, and how you could do it any time at all, like even every day if need be.
Looking forward to your reports!!!
have an early dinner, get an early night and set the alarm for 0430 (that's 4:30am for the idiots, unlike Owl, who don't know what I'm talking about).
While you're showering, shaving etc, grab a cup of tea and a slice of toast and then into the car by 0530 arriving at work by 0600 (or thereabouts).
Now, let's work through, shall we, until 1700( 5:00pm for the idiots) without any food or liquids or sustenance of any kind, and then come back and tell us all about it!
You know, like, how it was a piece of cake and no drama at all, and how you could do it any time at all, like even every day if need be.
Looking forward to your reports!!!
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IF you are even a Pilot, and you operate like that, I would think you are probably breaking some sort of Regulations.
I think you will find even the worst LCC in the World has drinking water on board.
As I said before, if you are a fit Airline Pilot, surely going without one meal would not incapacitate you, and unless you are doing long haul flights even this would not NEED to happen.
I think you will find even the worst LCC in the World has drinking water on board.
As I said before, if you are a fit Airline Pilot, surely going without one meal would not incapacitate you, and unless you are doing long haul flights even this would not NEED to happen.
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Amos,
Unfortunately, it seems, some people think a pilot in an australian airline will fly, say, Brisbane - Sydney (1hr 20) and that is it for the day. YEAH, RIGHT!
How about say 4 to 5 sectors a DAY? That is, the air crew does ALL those continuous legs.
No, we don't just do an 1 or 2 hour flight, and have an overnight or home trip.
Planemad,
I think you are starting to get it.
Yes, it IS breaking "some kind of regulation" - it\'s called COMMON SENSE.
Like I said above, we don\'t do 1 sector a day - we do SEVERAL sectors a day, with 30 minute turn arounds at each (just enough time to have the aircraft refuelled, walk-around, reprogramme the FMS for the onward journey, talk to the load master, get clearances.....)
IF we are lucky, the FA\'s will give us a cuppa and a sandwich.
Best thing of all? Take a damned apple or banana. Better than nothing, and won\'t poison you!
Unfortunately, it seems, some people think a pilot in an australian airline will fly, say, Brisbane - Sydney (1hr 20) and that is it for the day. YEAH, RIGHT!
How about say 4 to 5 sectors a DAY? That is, the air crew does ALL those continuous legs.
No, we don't just do an 1 or 2 hour flight, and have an overnight or home trip.
Planemad,
I think you are starting to get it.
Yes, it IS breaking "some kind of regulation" - it\'s called COMMON SENSE.
Like I said above, we don\'t do 1 sector a day - we do SEVERAL sectors a day, with 30 minute turn arounds at each (just enough time to have the aircraft refuelled, walk-around, reprogramme the FMS for the onward journey, talk to the load master, get clearances.....)
IF we are lucky, the FA\'s will give us a cuppa and a sandwich.
Best thing of all? Take a damned apple or banana. Better than nothing, and won\'t poison you!