Crew meals - an employer obligation to staff and customers.
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I am well aware of what you do, trust me. 
However I still say any fit person should be able to go without a meal IF necessary, without becoming incapacitated as some have suggested.
As I said before, obviously on long haul flights you would NEED to take something with you or be supplied with food.
However I cannot see how it is a drama on short haul flights, even if you do 5 legs a day, that means you have 4 transits where you can get food if you are starting to feel light headed.
As I also said before, the America West Pilots here in 1989 used to manage all their work during turnrounds, buy and eat their Lunch in the terminal, and say what is the holdup.
However I still say any fit person should be able to go without a meal IF necessary, without becoming incapacitated as some have suggested.
As I said before, obviously on long haul flights you would NEED to take something with you or be supplied with food.
However I cannot see how it is a drama on short haul flights, even if you do 5 legs a day, that means you have 4 transits where you can get food if you are starting to feel light headed.
As I also said before, the America West Pilots here in 1989 used to manage all their work during turnrounds, buy and eat their Lunch in the terminal, and say what is the holdup.
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Well now, don't take too much notice of the "American Heros" who could do it all in 30 mins with time to spare, we could open old war stories about them and their ways??!!!!
A sensible and appropriate intake of food and drink is well documented in many studies in many industries including Aviation.
Points often missed by the non flyers are the 6-10% humidity enviroment Pilots work in for all the flight time, the inability to eat at "any" time due wx, workload and even the cabin Crew's ability to actually get the "food" thru the door with the now regulated security. particularly if one pilot has to leave their seat to check the identity of the prospective deliverer if no Camera is fitted to the system. (that is another "privacy" issue as well).
I have had the privilage of flying in Asia with the laddies of Muslim persuasion, who would go ALL DAY without food/drink as our poster suggests, be assured that the performance and ability of the serious followers was noticably derated with this practice. Some Asian/Middle East Airlines actually issue Memos to the Crew in the period noting the relaxing of the Fasting requirements on a matter of Flight Safety. If the serious Believers allow a dispensation we of more liberal beliefs would be well advised to follow their lead I feel.
As to who should pay or not be paid or take a box lunch after nearly 40 yrs of Airline food of many persuasions including "home catering" Mrs GB wins all contests for quality and it comes with the habitation clause taken 40 yrs ago.
Employers/Accountants are in charge of the best fun we can have with our clothes on, sod them for their penny pinching ways of "Profit Maximisation" if they won't feed us and we bend the metal, how will it all look in the Courtroom???? if when our blood sugar levels were assessed from the investigation to be "low".
Food for thought if only in jest.
Big steak, lots of Chips, Hann light or Two, Mouse Hunt on the Telly, day off
C YA
A sensible and appropriate intake of food and drink is well documented in many studies in many industries including Aviation.
Points often missed by the non flyers are the 6-10% humidity enviroment Pilots work in for all the flight time, the inability to eat at "any" time due wx, workload and even the cabin Crew's ability to actually get the "food" thru the door with the now regulated security. particularly if one pilot has to leave their seat to check the identity of the prospective deliverer if no Camera is fitted to the system. (that is another "privacy" issue as well).
I have had the privilage of flying in Asia with the laddies of Muslim persuasion, who would go ALL DAY without food/drink as our poster suggests, be assured that the performance and ability of the serious followers was noticably derated with this practice. Some Asian/Middle East Airlines actually issue Memos to the Crew in the period noting the relaxing of the Fasting requirements on a matter of Flight Safety. If the serious Believers allow a dispensation we of more liberal beliefs would be well advised to follow their lead I feel.
As to who should pay or not be paid or take a box lunch after nearly 40 yrs of Airline food of many persuasions including "home catering" Mrs GB wins all contests for quality and it comes with the habitation clause taken 40 yrs ago.
Employers/Accountants are in charge of the best fun we can have with our clothes on, sod them for their penny pinching ways of "Profit Maximisation" if they won't feed us and we bend the metal, how will it all look in the Courtroom???? if when our blood sugar levels were assessed from the investigation to be "low".
Food for thought if only in jest.
Big steak, lots of Chips, Hann light or Two, Mouse Hunt on the Telly, day off
C YA
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I always found them to be extremely professional? 
Not so some of the other Operators during that time.
I can understand that after decades of being fed all day for free while on duty, people will be opposed to losing that benefit, however I still think it is drawing a long bow to suggest you NEED these meals for medical reasons.
Most Airline meals, even Crew meals, I have ever had were not that great anyway.
Not so some of the other Operators during that time.
I can understand that after decades of being fed all day for free while on duty, people will be opposed to losing that benefit, however I still think it is drawing a long bow to suggest you NEED these meals for medical reasons.
Most Airline meals, even Crew meals, I have ever had were not that great anyway.
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Planemad said: However I cannot see how it is a drama on short haul flights, even if you do 5 legs a day, that means you have 4 transits where you can get food if you are starting to feel light headed.
I would also like to point out that missing a meal is not always healthy, even for some healthy people. Do you want to go 12 hours without food on a regular basis and report back in 6 weeks?
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Plane Mad, I am starting to think perhaps you are one of the America West heroes that stayed behind...
When you are NOT as professional as you should be, yeah, you would have time to dash into the terminal, line up, grab an overpriced meal, sit and eat, and ask why everyone else is taking so long...after you've done a 2 minute non-inspectory walk around, do the FMS on the fly, and so on...
The standards at America West have been discussed before here and elsewhere - look it up!
When you are NOT as professional as you should be, yeah, you would have time to dash into the terminal, line up, grab an overpriced meal, sit and eat, and ask why everyone else is taking so long...after you've done a 2 minute non-inspectory walk around, do the FMS on the fly, and so on...
The standards at America West have been discussed before here and elsewhere - look it up!
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Well at the risk of repeating myself, we saw this every day with NO dramas back in 1989.
The Crew when talking to Airline Operations prior to arrival, ordered whatever they wanted, then went in to the Terminal on arrival, picked it up and paid for it (themselves), took it back to the Aircraft and ate it, with still plenty of time to complete their duties.
In fact they were always wanting to know why it took so long to turnround in Australia as compared to the USA.
Incidentally, the next time I see any Crew go for 12 hours without something to eat, will be the first time in 40 odd years.
The Crew when talking to Airline Operations prior to arrival, ordered whatever they wanted, then went in to the Terminal on arrival, picked it up and paid for it (themselves), took it back to the Aircraft and ate it, with still plenty of time to complete their duties.
In fact they were always wanting to know why it took so long to turnround in Australia as compared to the USA.
Incidentally, the next time I see any Crew go for 12 hours without something to eat, will be the first time in 40 odd years.
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At the risk of repeating MYSELF, judging standards against America West pilots is NOT a good thing!
I find this press release interesting...
Officials at America West Airlines [AWA] believe the findings of the National Program Review are outdated. "We have made tremendous progress since the audit," declared a company official. A company statement issued when the final report of the National Program Review was released said, "The findings do not accurately reflect the state of affairs at America West today ... Today we are offering our customers safe, consistent, reliable service that is good or better than any other airline. This performance should provide assurance that America West is operating a far different airline today than it was 18 months ago." >TK
Whether it is about it's 41,000 aircraft safety violations (maintenence and other) that they were fined for by the FAA, or other aspects is not clear...
I find this press release interesting...
Officials at America West Airlines [AWA] believe the findings of the National Program Review are outdated. "We have made tremendous progress since the audit," declared a company official. A company statement issued when the final report of the National Program Review was released said, "The findings do not accurately reflect the state of affairs at America West today ... Today we are offering our customers safe, consistent, reliable service that is good or better than any other airline. This performance should provide assurance that America West is operating a far different airline today than it was 18 months ago." >TK
Whether it is about it's 41,000 aircraft safety violations (maintenence and other) that they were fined for by the FAA, or other aspects is not clear...
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
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RTA, ignore him/her - it's his FOURTH post where s/he has deliberately mentioned the America West scabs, in an attempt to get some bights.
His/her last post was full of ****e
As everyone has been made aware, the standards at America West have long been questionable, and planemad's accounts only go to further confirm what lacsadasical, slap-happy operators they were! 
It's tour of duty time that's important - a pilot may be flying only 3 or 4 sectors but have in excess of a 12 hour duty period.
Why don't you run off and ask Dick Smith, sonny!!! 
His/her last post was full of ****e
....with still plenty of time to complete their duties.
Unless you are operating 10-12 hour flights surely it is not a big problem?
In fact they were always wanting to know why it took so long to turnround in Australia as compared to the USA.
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If you want to try to keep your free meals you have been getting for decades, often even taking them home, good luck to you.
However don't try to justify it as a medical requirement.
I only entered this discussion because some of you were attacking another poster for daring to question your logic, then you attack me and another group of Professional Pilots.
Many of the crew meals I have seen, you are probably more in danger by eating them than missing out on one of them.
Indidentally too, these Pilots you lot are rubbishing, were flying at time with full Airline catering, but they didn't usually eat the crew meals provided free to them by the Airlines, they bought their own.
However don't try to justify it as a medical requirement.
I only entered this discussion because some of you were attacking another poster for daring to question your logic, then you attack me and another group of Professional Pilots.
Many of the crew meals I have seen, you are probably more in danger by eating them than missing out on one of them.
Indidentally too, these Pilots you lot are rubbishing, were flying at time with full Airline catering, but they didn't usually eat the crew meals provided free to them by the Airlines, they bought their own.
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Planemad2, there have been some reported incidents (thankfully small) in the past where going without food for an extended period of time were cited as a contributory factor, so I suggest you don't dismiss it so quickly as a safety issue.
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planemad2, you don't seem to realise that you are running around in ever decreasing circles (to finally disappear up your own fundamental orifice 
) and are countering your own argument by using your heroes - the America West pilots - as examples.
Obviously even they understood the need for nourishment by going into the terminals to buy food.
If the truth's known, they probably ate the crew meal(s) provided PLUS the extras they bought.
Now read back through the thread and you'll see that the reason employers should provide crew meals is to ENSURE that the pilots have sustenance available for the times when it is simply not possible - for a variety of reasons....lack of time between turn-arounds, non-availability of food at turnaround stations....for the crew to obtain meals.
It is not being "justified" as a medical requirement, but as a SAFETY requirement, based on proven medical evidence of the debilitating effects of low blood sugar level on performance.
In fact, greybeard raised a very valid point when he mentioned the Muslim pilots who fast during the daylight hours of Ramadan.
I too have flown with the pilots (and F/A's) who chose to do this, and there most definitely is a NOTICEABLE loss of performance on their part, esp. in the afternoons, when they had been without food for about 7 or 8 hours, and more.
(And no, this is not having a "go" at Muslims, as there is a dispensation for them, if they elect to take it.)
Back to TNO - the case of ground-based personnel was discussed previously. Quite simply, at any time they can down tools and shoot off to somewhere to grab some food.
) and are countering your own argument by using your heroes - the America West pilots - as examples.Obviously even they understood the need for nourishment by going into the terminals to buy food.
If the truth's known, they probably ate the crew meal(s) provided PLUS the extras they bought.
Now read back through the thread and you'll see that the reason employers should provide crew meals is to ENSURE that the pilots have sustenance available for the times when it is simply not possible - for a variety of reasons....lack of time between turn-arounds, non-availability of food at turnaround stations....for the crew to obtain meals.
However don't try to justify it as a medical requirement.
In fact, greybeard raised a very valid point when he mentioned the Muslim pilots who fast during the daylight hours of Ramadan.
I too have flown with the pilots (and F/A's) who chose to do this, and there most definitely is a NOTICEABLE loss of performance on their part, esp. in the afternoons, when they had been without food for about 7 or 8 hours, and more.
(And no, this is not having a "go" at Muslims, as there is a dispensation for them, if they elect to take it.)
Back to TNO - the case of ground-based personnel was discussed previously. Quite simply, at any time they can down tools and shoot off to somewhere to grab some food.
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Dear Kaptin M,
I would have much more time, and respect , for you IF you just came out and said that you have been getting these free meals for decades and want to keep them.
To try to justify it on medical grounds is ridiculous.
I purposely did not mention your fellow Professionals by name last time, but you bring them up again?
Were you one of the strikers in 1989?
Your attacks on me and The Owl don't seem very professional?
As I pointed out last time, IF this is a real health problem, surely it is covered by a CASA regulation?
I would have much more time, and respect , for you IF you just came out and said that you have been getting these free meals for decades and want to keep them.
To try to justify it on medical grounds is ridiculous.
I purposely did not mention your fellow Professionals by name last time, but you bring them up again?
Were you one of the strikers in 1989?
Your attacks on me and The Owl don't seem very professional?
As I pointed out last time, IF this is a real health problem, surely it is covered by a CASA regulation?
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Boy you people are so picky.
Surely IF it is a safety problem, it is covered by a CASA regulation?
Is that better............
Either way you want to put it, surely nowadays IF it is a workplace health and safety issue, the Airlines would HAVE to supply the meals, and it should be a CASA/FAA/CAA etc regulation, is it?
Surely IF it is a safety problem, it is covered by a CASA regulation?
Is that better............
Either way you want to put it, surely nowadays IF it is a workplace health and safety issue, the Airlines would HAVE to supply the meals, and it should be a CASA/FAA/CAA etc regulation, is it?
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Dear planemad2, why do you think we
Because it was based
As I said in my previous post, you are countering your OWN arguments with what YOU are writing
No, I was NEVER on strike.
That is an issue well worth noting, as CASA are ultimately responsible for ensuring the overall Safety of aviation in Australia.
...have been getting these free meals for decades
..on medical grounds
Were you one of the strikers in 1989?
surely it is covered by a CASA regulation
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Kaptin M,
Please accept my humble apology, I incorrectly thought you must have been one of the strikers by what you were saying, sorry.
Nobody has answered still whether or not this is in any regulations if it is so critical to the safe operation of Airliners?
IF it is not, surely it should be.
Wouldn't your campaign to save these meals on duty surely be better directed at CASA, and getting them to enshrine it in regulations?
Please accept my humble apology, I incorrectly thought you must have been one of the strikers by what you were saying, sorry.
Nobody has answered still whether or not this is in any regulations if it is so critical to the safe operation of Airliners?
IF it is not, surely it should be.
Wouldn't your campaign to save these meals on duty surely be better directed at CASA, and getting them to enshrine it in regulations?