No-frills kangaroo ready to hop
If true this is a disgraceful effort by the Impulse pilots.
Once I can understand-undercutting with paid endorsements and woeful pay.
Saved by QF( I was happy to see you guys keep your jobs even though you undercut).
But twice, when unneccessary, unforgivable!
Impulse pilots have been very, very fortunate. Please return something to the industry.
Once I can understand-undercutting with paid endorsements and woeful pay.
Saved by QF( I was happy to see you guys keep your jobs even though you undercut).
But twice, when unneccessary, unforgivable!
Impulse pilots have been very, very fortunate. Please return something to the industry.
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It would seem that the consensus is swinging towards the LCC being crewed by Impulse pilots.
I too think this is the most likely scenario, howeever, as I have said previously (or did I think), it will be a composite crewing arrangement.
I can understand perfectly why the Impulse guys are trying like hell to get the flying, they are not fighting for terms and conditions, they are fighting for job security, something those at Qantas (and we at Ansett used to) take for granted.
AIPA have the ability to resolve this issue in a satisfactory manner, get the wages right and keep the Impulse pilots involved whilst retaining the flying within mainline.
The only other option is for QF pilots to flex industrial muscle, they have it, it would work and now is perhaps the best time, but ultimately I believe this is highly unlikely. Sadly, AIPA and its members have been indoctrinated into negotiation rather than confrontation.
I too think this is the most likely scenario, howeever, as I have said previously (or did I think), it will be a composite crewing arrangement.
I can understand perfectly why the Impulse guys are trying like hell to get the flying, they are not fighting for terms and conditions, they are fighting for job security, something those at Qantas (and we at Ansett used to) take for granted.
AIPA have the ability to resolve this issue in a satisfactory manner, get the wages right and keep the Impulse pilots involved whilst retaining the flying within mainline.
The only other option is for QF pilots to flex industrial muscle, they have it, it would work and now is perhaps the best time, but ultimately I believe this is highly unlikely. Sadly, AIPA and its members have been indoctrinated into negotiation rather than confrontation.
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If the previous info is true : The Nopulse pilots need to have a good hard look at themselves in a room full of mirrors! 
...
Impulse pilots have been very, very fortunate. Please return something to the industry Here Here!
...right now, all they seem to be about to do, is get us all closer to that old truckin' uniform of their previous boss McGowan.
Once a prostitute...
...Impulse pilots have been very, very fortunate. Please return something to the industry Here Here!
...right now, all they seem to be about to do, is get us all closer to that old truckin' uniform of their previous boss McGowan.
Once a prostitute...
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So what exactly are these pay and conditions that are supposed to be so woeful? From my angle it's like saying yeah thats shocking but what are you exactly talking about?
Numbers and conditions please.
Numbers and conditions please.
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I too think the IPG has been naive in agreeing (the IPG doesn't get the rank and file pilots' input when developing proposals) to fly a heavier type for the same $. It has to be voted in for by the pilots yet and I hope that the majority have enough spine and defeat the proposal. Regrettably, as the majority are have previously bent over for Mr McG and taken it, they will probably accept the deal in fear of losing their jobs. AIPA should have let them join when QF grabbed them for a united force. 
Nunc est bibendum
Rostov, the pay and conditions are exactly what they are on now. Carry an extra fifty to sixty pax and don't get an extra cent. To be honest, I can understand the Impulse guys being concerned as to their future but gee, what a way to go about it. Again I say that they could have asked for DJ pay and conditions, still been in front of where they are now and probably still have an offer that under cuts the mainline offer.
It makes me want to up our AIPA dues a couple of per cent or so each, undercut the Impulse offer and have the union make up the difference to normal QF wages a la Cathay and the 49 (or thereabouts!) a couple of years back. Hang on, that would be seen as 'stupid' by many Impulse pilots wouldn't it? No more stupid than carrying 50% more pax for the same dollars!
It makes me want to up our AIPA dues a couple of per cent or so each, undercut the Impulse offer and have the union make up the difference to normal QF wages a la Cathay and the 49 (or thereabouts!) a couple of years back. Hang on, that would be seen as 'stupid' by many Impulse pilots wouldn't it? No more stupid than carrying 50% more pax for the same dollars!
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" Flex their industrial muscle ", gee, was someone out of the country 14 years ago ?, go right ahead, the comedy channel has been a bit lacking of late anyway.
Whilst I do not condone what Impulse are doing, I think you might find that if they work as hard as the Virgins they will be on the same or more money ( due to O/T ), and not have to pay for the endorsement.
You blokes are just one big happy family are'nt you !?, it's not the Impulse pilots fault that their management is trying to back door you, do you really think they are going to try and stop ( even if they could ) whatever deal their management is trying to cut ? I can see it now :
IMP PG rep. : " I'm sorry Mr *****, the pilots have got together and decided we don't want to fly the A320, especially if it will in any way hurt our mainline brothers "
Mr.**** : " OK, thats fine , we'll just let mainline do it, no point in stirring the pot eh "
** big group hug between Mr.*****, I PG rep and AIPA pres. **
Good old AIPA hey, where are they when the regionals are getting sh1t on from a great height ??, sipping their grange thats where, oh, and I can tell a good story or 2 about how they've " looked after " their own also.
Sorry guys, I think you might find the honeymoon is approaching the home straight, $220 per hour ? you did'nt think that would last forever, did you ?
Whilst I do not condone what Impulse are doing, I think you might find that if they work as hard as the Virgins they will be on the same or more money ( due to O/T ), and not have to pay for the endorsement.
You blokes are just one big happy family are'nt you !?, it's not the Impulse pilots fault that their management is trying to back door you, do you really think they are going to try and stop ( even if they could ) whatever deal their management is trying to cut ? I can see it now :
IMP PG rep. : " I'm sorry Mr *****, the pilots have got together and decided we don't want to fly the A320, especially if it will in any way hurt our mainline brothers "
Mr.**** : " OK, thats fine , we'll just let mainline do it, no point in stirring the pot eh "
** big group hug between Mr.*****, I PG rep and AIPA pres. **
Good old AIPA hey, where are they when the regionals are getting sh1t on from a great height ??, sipping their grange thats where, oh, and I can tell a good story or 2 about how they've " looked after " their own also.
Sorry guys, I think you might find the honeymoon is approaching the home straight, $220 per hour ? you did'nt think that would last forever, did you ?
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Obviously Cunninglinguist,
You have a serious chip on your shoulder!
You start of stating that you do not condone what the idiots at Impulse are trying to do then you launch an outright attack on AIPA and its members.
For a pilot you are a daft prick arent you?
This is a serious threat to the profession which has the potential to undermine pay and conditions to the point of making it a worthless occupation.
Pilots have got to be the most industrialy ignorant group of workers that this country has ever seen.
Professionals dont undercut one another.
Its a good thing that I dont give a **** either way!
You have a serious chip on your shoulder!
You start of stating that you do not condone what the idiots at Impulse are trying to do then you launch an outright attack on AIPA and its members.
For a pilot you are a daft prick arent you?
This is a serious threat to the profession which has the potential to undermine pay and conditions to the point of making it a worthless occupation.
Pilots have got to be the most industrialy ignorant group of workers that this country has ever seen.
Professionals dont undercut one another.
Its a good thing that I dont give a **** either way!
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Ok Guys, I work for Impulse and proud of it. I dont like what I am reading. Cunninglinguist, you have the right idea, and Pilots ARE very unsophisticated when dealing with money and management (and I am not management, as you will all think I am)
So tell me exactly what I should do to get my A320. Then tell what YOU would do to get one. Unless of course you already have a jet, then you are just worring about money, im tasol.
If you havnt got one, well, there may be one there for you, you never know.......and would you be worrying about the money....be honest..
James Forth.
So tell me exactly what I should do to get my A320. Then tell what YOU would do to get one. Unless of course you already have a jet, then you are just worring about money, im tasol.
If you havnt got one, well, there may be one there for you, you never know.......and would you be worrying about the money....be honest..
James Forth.
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Try AIPA again....! Geez, I think I heard the laughter from here, but I am serious.
There has been a change of guard, new President a majority of shorthaul pilots are now in. The long term plan was to cover all regionals (before this low cost thing started) unfortunately past leadership screwed that. Don't let this stop you at least talking to them. I have it on good authority that at a recent meeting the idea of 'freezing Impulse out' was brought up and the individual was told, in no uncertain terms, that was NOT a consideration which ever way this LCC thing goes.
Good luck either way.......
There has been a change of guard, new President a majority of shorthaul pilots are now in. The long term plan was to cover all regionals (before this low cost thing started) unfortunately past leadership screwed that. Don't let this stop you at least talking to them. I have it on good authority that at a recent meeting the idea of 'freezing Impulse out' was brought up and the individual was told, in no uncertain terms, that was NOT a consideration which ever way this LCC thing goes.
Good luck either way.......
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I think Oz Aviation mag summed it up recently, all we hear from Dicko' is doom and gloom.
Doesn't matter that the Flying Marsupial has a botttom line profit other carriers would kill for.
Understand that costs have to be lowered but I suspect some of the head honchos at Marsupial H/O really do believe flightcrew are glorified bus drivers, cabin crew glorified waiters/resses & engineering staff glorified motor mechanics.
How about a new airline? Yes! 'AirStooge'
Doesn't matter that the Flying Marsupial has a botttom line profit other carriers would kill for.
Understand that costs have to be lowered but I suspect some of the head honchos at Marsupial H/O really do believe flightcrew are glorified bus drivers, cabin crew glorified waiters/resses & engineering staff glorified motor mechanics.
How about a new airline? Yes! 'AirStooge'
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I recall that when a certain British major airline acquired a smaller outfit the major airline pilots union brought the pay and conditions of the smaller outfit into line with their own. Ultimately this was for self preservation.
AIPA should have done this when QF absorbed Impulse etc.
Result is that QF management can now divide and conquer.
Union power is proportional to membership numbers. Impulse pilots have no leverage but QF pilots do.
AIPA should have done this when QF absorbed Impulse etc.
Result is that QF management can now divide and conquer.
Union power is proportional to membership numbers. Impulse pilots have no leverage but QF pilots do.
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Now, I've been pretty much sitting back watching this discussion, mainly because it's clear that I have a rather large chip on my shoulder where Impulse pilots are concerned. So I've shut up. But enough already.
Their behaviour is nothing short of disgusting! I think many now will understand my angst with this organisation. A substantial number of these guys are mainline rejects, for whatever reason. But suddenly, they are suitable for mainline flying, simply because they are cheap enough? Good lord, go figure that one!
These guys have come along, and prostituted themselves twice now, once when they first began 717 ops, and now offering themselves for the LCC at "no extra charge". You guys would be getting at least some respect if you'd done this for a modest pay increase, but none at all? Shameful. Hang your heads in shame, Impulse.
You are continuing your campaign of undermining our profession throughout Australasia. Where will it end? Even the VB management now have significant leverage against their pilots.
Don't bother walking through the terminals any more, guys. Even the cleaners won't have any respect for you. Don't bother with your usual proplever taunts. Apart from the fact that you have disgusted just about everyone on these forums, I'm just not listening.
Their behaviour is nothing short of disgusting! I think many now will understand my angst with this organisation. A substantial number of these guys are mainline rejects, for whatever reason. But suddenly, they are suitable for mainline flying, simply because they are cheap enough? Good lord, go figure that one!
These guys have come along, and prostituted themselves twice now, once when they first began 717 ops, and now offering themselves for the LCC at "no extra charge". You guys would be getting at least some respect if you'd done this for a modest pay increase, but none at all? Shameful. Hang your heads in shame, Impulse.
You are continuing your campaign of undermining our profession throughout Australasia. Where will it end? Even the VB management now have significant leverage against their pilots.
Don't bother walking through the terminals any more, guys. Even the cleaners won't have any respect for you. Don't bother with your usual proplever taunts. Apart from the fact that you have disgusted just about everyone on these forums, I'm just not listening.
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Oh Dear! Proplever, I am not going to enter into a debate with such a vitriolic tirade but to say that "mainline rejects" is a form of compliment as far as I am concerned! 
Thread Starter
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Dow Jones
Australia's Qantas: To Decide On Low Cost Fleet
-By Lilly Vitorovich; Dow Jones Newswires;
Wednesday November 12, 10:52 pm ET SYDNEY -(Dow Jones)- Qantas Airways Ltd. chief executive Geoff Dixon said Thursday that the national carrier will make a decision in the next two days about the planes to be used by its low frills operation.
Dixon told reporters that the choice between Boeing Co. and Airbus will be put to the Qantas board early next week.
He said talks are being held with three Australian states as the possible head office of the discount carrier, which is set to begin next May. Dixon has previously said the airline won't be based in New South Wales, which is the home of the parent company.
Virgin Blue, the low-cost carrier that has about 30% of the domestic market, is based in Queensland.
Qantas has said it will buy an unspecified number of Boeing 737-800 or A320 planes for its low-cost operation, with a fleet of 23 aircraft by mid-2005.
"The management will make a decision within the next 48 hours. We'll be putting a recommendation to the Qantas board early next week on offers we have had from Boeing for 737-800 aircraft and from Airbus for A320," Dixon told reporters at a joint briefing with industry group Oneworld.
The branding and naming of the carrier will be finalized around the same time.
Dixon declined to comment on rival Virgin Blue's plans to raise A$500 million- plus via an initial public share offering. "I've got nothing to say about the Virgin Blue float," he said.
Separately, he said bookings are improving and capacity is back to pre-SARS levels.
"Network-wide our bookings are quite good and the market's coming back better than we probably anticipated two or three months ago," he said.
"And our capacity is back now to about pre-SARS levels, so while it's still a difficult industry and a difficult market, things are not looking too bad."
Asked about the airline's results for the six months ending Dec. 31 and the impact of the stronger Australian dollar and the Rugby World Cup, Dixon said: " We anticipate a better overall result this financial year than we had last year. But in the last two months bookings have been a bit stronger than we thought, and we're just quietly confident that the business is returning to some strength."
Dixon said every subsidiary of Qantas is now profitable.
He dismissed suggestions that Qantas may pull out of the New Zealand market because its loads were very low and marketing had declined.
"Nothing could be further from the truth, we have 111 flights a week, our load factors are over 80%...," he said.
Qantas is still weighting up whether to appeal the New Zealand Commerce Commission's decision to reject its strategic alliance with Air New Zealand Ltd.
"It's still very much an open game as far as we're concerned," Dixon said.
Qantas is appealing the Australian Competition & Consumer Commission's decision to reject the alliance, which involves Qantas buying a 22.5% stake in the New Zealand carrier for NZ$550 million.
===========================================
Australia's Qantas: To Decide On Low Cost Fleet
-By Lilly Vitorovich; Dow Jones Newswires;
Wednesday November 12, 10:52 pm ET SYDNEY -(Dow Jones)- Qantas Airways Ltd. chief executive Geoff Dixon said Thursday that the national carrier will make a decision in the next two days about the planes to be used by its low frills operation.
Dixon told reporters that the choice between Boeing Co. and Airbus will be put to the Qantas board early next week.
He said talks are being held with three Australian states as the possible head office of the discount carrier, which is set to begin next May. Dixon has previously said the airline won't be based in New South Wales, which is the home of the parent company.
Virgin Blue, the low-cost carrier that has about 30% of the domestic market, is based in Queensland.
Qantas has said it will buy an unspecified number of Boeing 737-800 or A320 planes for its low-cost operation, with a fleet of 23 aircraft by mid-2005.
"The management will make a decision within the next 48 hours. We'll be putting a recommendation to the Qantas board early next week on offers we have had from Boeing for 737-800 aircraft and from Airbus for A320," Dixon told reporters at a joint briefing with industry group Oneworld.
The branding and naming of the carrier will be finalized around the same time.
Dixon declined to comment on rival Virgin Blue's plans to raise A$500 million- plus via an initial public share offering. "I've got nothing to say about the Virgin Blue float," he said.
Separately, he said bookings are improving and capacity is back to pre-SARS levels.
"Network-wide our bookings are quite good and the market's coming back better than we probably anticipated two or three months ago," he said.
"And our capacity is back now to about pre-SARS levels, so while it's still a difficult industry and a difficult market, things are not looking too bad."
Asked about the airline's results for the six months ending Dec. 31 and the impact of the stronger Australian dollar and the Rugby World Cup, Dixon said: " We anticipate a better overall result this financial year than we had last year. But in the last two months bookings have been a bit stronger than we thought, and we're just quietly confident that the business is returning to some strength."
Dixon said every subsidiary of Qantas is now profitable.
He dismissed suggestions that Qantas may pull out of the New Zealand market because its loads were very low and marketing had declined.
"Nothing could be further from the truth, we have 111 flights a week, our load factors are over 80%...," he said.
Qantas is still weighting up whether to appeal the New Zealand Commerce Commission's decision to reject its strategic alliance with Air New Zealand Ltd.
"It's still very much an open game as far as we're concerned," Dixon said.
Qantas is appealing the Australian Competition & Consumer Commission's decision to reject the alliance, which involves Qantas buying a 22.5% stake in the New Zealand carrier for NZ$550 million.
===========================================
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Here is the Impulse Award. This is what these blokes are prepared to do to the Profession. Someone put it on that Qrewroom website.
http://www.wagenet.gov.au/Wagenet/Se...=176785&query=(IMPULSE%20PILOTS)&page=0&showlink=Y
http://www.wagenet.gov.au/Wagenet/Se...=176785&query=(IMPULSE%20PILOTS)&page=0&showlink=Y