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Originally Posted by kmat
(Post 10218673)
Hi pilotwings, I was at the assessment centre last week and also haven’t heard anything. No call, email or application status update. You’re right about it being a long week! |
Assessment Centre
Finally confirmation today that I'm in, congratulations to anyone else who made it and commiserations to those that missed out.
Those that have described the assessment centre day regardless of how long ago, have done it justice. The tests may have been tweaked and changed here and there, but they all seem to be things that you can't really prepare for - just keep your head, stay calm and obey the rules stipulated |
Awesome work Jazzycab!
Have they offered you enroute or tower? |
Originally Posted by jazzycab
(Post 10224068)
Finally confirmation today that I'm in, congratulations to anyone else who made it and commiserations to those that missed out.
Those that have described the assessment centre day regardless of how long ago, have done it justice. The tests may have been tweaked and changed here and there, but they all seem to be things that you can't really prepare for - just keep your head, stay calm and obey the rules stipulated Were you sent home early from the assessment day or were you kept all day? |
Also got accepted today into enroute, agree with jazzy on everything regarding the assessment day, the most valuable thing you can do to prepare is get a good night's sleep beforehand.
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Originally Posted by AKorol
(Post 10224108)
Awesome work Jazzycab!
Have they offered you enroute or tower?
Originally Posted by Vandelayy
(Post 10224125)
Congrats!
Were you sent home early from the assessment day or were you kept all day?
Originally Posted by pilotwings
(Post 10224310)
Also got accepted today into enroute, agree with jazzy on everything regarding the assessment day, the most valuable thing you can do to prepare is get a good night's sleep beforehand.
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Originally Posted by jazzycab
(Post 10224340)
Congratulations, when are you starting?
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Originally Posted by pilotwings
(Post 10224347)
1st of October, are you the same?
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Originally Posted by jazzycab
(Post 10224361)
No, I requested starting next year due to my current job, so I'm starting in January. Best of luck!
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Originally Posted by pilotwings
(Post 10224385)
Thanks mate you too, almost doesnt feel real.
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help needed with Airservice Australia recruitment process
(thanks for moving my post to where it should be, I'll go through all previous post.)
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Originally Posted by philosophrenic
(Post 10226938)
(thanks for moving my post to where it should be, I'll go through all previous post.)
Hi all, I'm in the process of Airservices ATC trainee application process and looking for advise and help. I have made it through the first 2 steps and is about to attend the whole day assessment in MEL facility in September. Can anyone speculate the selection rate of this step and/or the previous steps? Any tips on this assessment day, like what's involved and what preparation will be great. TIA! |
Originally Posted by philosophrenic
(Post 10226938)
(thanks for moving my post to where it should be, I'll go through all previous post.)
Hi all, I'm in the process of Airservices ATC trainee application process and looking for advise and help. I have made it through the first 2 steps and is about to attend the whole day assessment in MEL facility in September. Can anyone speculate the selection rate of this step and/or the previous steps? Any tips on this assessment day, like what's involved and what preparation will be great. TIA! pilotwings is correct in the fact that you are only competing against yourself. If you have what it takes, you’re through... I attended the assessment centre two weeks ago and one of the assessors said they were “hoping to get 13 or 14 through” out of the 50 that attended over the week. This would be an approximate rate of 25% who get through. With that said, each assessment centre would surely have a different outcome in terms of numbers. Good luck in September. |
Originally Posted by kmat
(Post 10227558)
Hi Philosophrenic, pilotwings is correct in the fact that you are only competing against yourself. If you have what it takes, you’re through... I attended the assessment centre two weeks ago and one of the assessors said they were “hoping to get 13 or 14 through” out of the 50 that attended over the week. This would be an approximate rate of 25% who get through. With that said, each assessment centre would surely have a different outcome in terms of numbers. Good luck in September. I have already booked a cheaper hotel off the airport area and a rental car. As I see their facility is to the east of the field and I don't feel like jogging in my interview outfit. Anyone been there think my plan is viable? Without a permit, I'm afraid that I can't park at their facility. If that's the case, Uber will be my plan B, as advertised. |
Hey everyone!
Thanks everyone for sharing their experiences and knowledge about the ATC recruitment process. I also got a call last week about a month after doing the online testing inviting me to an assessment centre on the 8th October. It seems they're running a few of these assessment days. I think this one might be for interstate applicants (I'm from Tasmania)? Anyone else coming to Melbourne on this day? |
Now I'm trying to arrange a meet & chat on Sept 16, the Sunday evening right before the assessment week. Anyone whose flight scheduled to land in MEL before 6:00pm Sept 16th and is interested, plz pm me. so far we got one confirmed and one interest beside myself.
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Laudable idea to meet up prior - but lay off the grog completely the night before the assessment if you can, and ensure you get good rest. Even if you're not feeling the effects of a hangover or whatever, it will affect your performance in some way. You want to give yourself every chance to be at the top of your game for this!
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I have a question regarding the documents you are supposed to bring to the assessment centre. The email asks for a Certified copy of a Pilot Licence and/or Class 3 medical (if obtained). What if I do not have either of those? do I need to go and get a class 3 medical done, or do they not mind if you do not have it?
Thank you! |
Originally Posted by Track Shortener
(Post 10229353)
Laudable idea to meet up prior - but lay off the grog completely the night before the assessment if you can, and ensure you get good rest. Even if you're not feeling the effects of a hangover or whatever, it will affect your performance in some way. You want to give yourself every chance to be at the top of your game for this!
BTW, the ATC unit where I used to work overseas, recently got breath analyzers due to some incident that uninpressed the boss. |
Originally Posted by a.adams
(Post 10229617)
I have a question regarding the documents you are supposed to bring to the assessment centre. The email asks for a Certified copy of a Pilot Licence and/or Class 3 medical (if obtained). What if I do not have either of those? do I need to go and get a class 3 medical done, or do they not mind if you do not have it?
Thank you! |
Interesting to see that nobody is discussing what happens at the assessment centre anymore.....is it deliberately kept a secret, or do people feel some sort of 'candidate's honour' in not revealing what happens behind those closed doors? :)
Any insight or tips for anybody heading along? Even vague ones? |
Testing
Some of the previous candidates have eluded to the fact you may be better off walking in with an open mind than worrying about what might be coming. The assessment day is no different to the online psychometric testing, fail one and you fail the application process, so if you passed that, what’s stopping you from succeeding at the assessment day? Keep a cool head, get a good nights sleep and you’ll probably go ok! |
Having spoken to people who have been involved in the recruitment process in the past, people who have been pre-briefed tend to stand out like the proverbial and it definitely hasn't done them any favours.
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Interesting. Thanks for the feedback!
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Originally Posted by hansfalkenhagen
(Post 10234299)
To save me from reading over the last 6 months worth of posts for the third time, I have some questions I am hoping to have answered:
1. I've heard of some "pre-course learning material" you're expected to complete prior to training. What does this involve and how long should you expect to dedicate to it (I only ask as I may need to cancel a trip I have planned leading up to the course). 2. I've heard of some form of "verification test" during the assessment day. Does this involved resitting the SHL test or is it just the cognitive testing/simulator exercise we are expected to complete at the assessment centre? 3. Is the OPQ now conducted at the assessment centre or was it scrapped entirely from the application process? 4. Is the role for En Route controlling more autonomous, whereas Tower is more focussed to team work? 5. If you ended up on the Tower course, are you expected to slog away for a few years in a less desirable location rather than near a major city? Paying one's dues, more or less? 6. How many people are generally on each course? ie. what is the instructor to trainee ratio like? 7. What might be some of the reasons people fail during initial and field training? What might be some of the reasons people leave the profession early on? They may seem like some odd questions, but I am trying to fill in some gaps with the research I have already done. :) Thanks! |
6. Not sure how big the courses are at the moment, but in enroute they've varied from 8-16 people over the last few years. There is usually one instructor between two students during the actual simulation exercises (the sims are in pairs of consoles), with occasional bonus one-on-one available as instructor resources allow. At significant points - scheduled progress evaluations, or in the lead-up to exams or where extra support is necessary - one-on-one instruction is usually available.
7. You need to successfully pass 'milestone' assessments, which are practical tests in the simulator, at the end of each phase in order to progress to the next one. If you are unsuccessful, you should get another go, after targeted additional training to address whatever issues were identified the first time round. If you are unsuccessful the second time, you go "under training review" and may or may not get back-coursed for another shot. Sometimes it's an attitude problem that brings people to this point, sometimes it's a technical deficiency and sometimes it's just clear they don't "get it". |
Originally Posted by hansfalkenhagen
(Post 10234299)
To save me from reading over the last 6 months worth of posts for the third time, I have some questions I am hoping to have answered:
1. I've heard of some "pre-course learning material" you're expected to complete prior to training. What does this involve and how long should you expect to dedicate to it (I only ask as I may need to cancel a trip I have planned leading up to the course). 2. I've heard of some form of "verification test" during the assessment day. Does this involved resitting the SHL test or is it just the cognitive testing/simulator exercise we are expected to complete at the assessment centre? 3. Is the OPQ now conducted at the assessment centre or was it scrapped entirely from the application process? 4. Is the role for En Route controlling more autonomous, whereas Tower is more focussed to team work? 5. If you ended up on the Tower course, are you expected to slog away for a few years in a less desirable location rather than near a major city? Paying one's dues, more or less? 6. How many people are generally on each course? ie. what is the instructor to trainee ratio like? 7. What might be some of the reasons people fail during initial and field training? What might be some of the reasons people leave the profession early on? They may seem like some odd questions, but I am trying to fill in some gaps with the research I have already done. :) Thanks! 4. Enroute and tower both have aspects of autonomy about them and both require a lot of teamwork. It also all depends on the tower/sector/unit where you work as they are all unique. 5. It all comes down to resourcing needs and ability demonstrated at the academy. If there’s a current need for trainees at big city towers and you’ve had good results through the radar tower module there’s nothing to stop an Abinitio ending up at mel/syd etc.. but often the staffing needs are at regional towers and it’s easier to post a new trainee there than it is to take an operational controller off another roster, pay transfer costs and retrain them at an outback procedural tower. I think during the academy training that tower trainees are asked their preferences for a posting.. sometimes they get them, often they don’t. On the Flipside, usually after 2 or so years at a less desirable tower you’re generally in a pretty good position to put your hand up for a transfer to the tower of your choice. 6. When I was on course it was 8 per enroute course, 4 per tower course. 7. Getting through the training is hard work. You need a fair bit of motivation and drive and you also need a thick skin because there are times when it feels like you’re getting nowhere.. I’ve seen people fall over because of huge holes in their theoretical knowledge/understanding. Sometimes this is due to lack of effort, and sometimes it’s just due to overload of information or an inability to really understand the concepts. Ive also seen people who breeze through the theory, always have the right answer in discussions.. but then you put them in the sim or in front of live traffic and they can’t process what’s happening either due to pressure, or a lack of the natural perception skills necessary to do the job. Some people get through the academy without a hitch and then hit the real world and realise that they aren’t suited to the environment (shiftwork, required flexibility, group dynamics, politics etc) and give it up on their own accord. most that get through the training end up in a career they enjoy and are happy to endure all the above though because the good far outweighs the bad. |
I'll add my 2c worth (FWIW I'm well towards the other end of my career):
7. ATC is a complex job in that you need to perform reasonably well across a range of skills, consistently. Whether you can pull them all together to a high enough standard and consistently enough is what's tested in the sim - whether you've "got it" or not. Yes, training helps to an extent but mostly it's from within. As Whispr says you need to put in the hard yards memorising standards, etc. as well. Listen to the instructors, particularly in the field. Listen to other controllers giving tips. Yes you need self-confidence but it needs to be tempered - they're telling you these things for a reason. I've seen trainees go down for no other reason than over-confidence. Occasionally a trainee can't abstract themselves from the number of lives they're dealing with so find it too stressful. Be aware that gaining a rating isn't the end - you need to keep learning and showing improvement to retain the rating. Most people naturally do but occasionally not. ATC isn't the job for everyone and as Whispr says the reality sometimes just doesn't work with personal/family circumstances or priorities. You'll miss out on kid's birthdays, Christmas dinner, family events, gatherings with friends. There will be bad days during the training (and occasionally on the job) but you just have to push on or you will get left behind. Learn from them but don't dwell on them - ATC is a confidence "game" and if your head isn't in the right place no amount of ability will help. If you can overcome/cope with all that it's a great job. |
Training is a long, hard and relentless but being a well-rounded and motivated individual will stand you in good stead - not enough on it's own to get you through the training but a good start.
I don't mean to make it sound like a real downer because it's not. You'll hopefully enjoy the group camaraderie and form lifelong friendships. Just that it is tough. Maybe I'd better not mention the historic pass rate........:eek: FWIW there are signs that the current selection process is doing a good job. |
One of the young guys I work with who went through the college about 2 years ago says there's a little bit of general stuff on human factors but that's about it. My view is that the actual controlling itself isn't particularly stressful - it's "fight or flight" type stress rather than chronic, so when you walk out the door it doesn't come with you. The only time it follows you is when something goes badly wrong, but hopefully those days are few and far between. The most stressful day I've had at work was being involved in a situation where a VFR flight was stuck on top of cloud and they had to descend through cloud several times due to it getting dark. It lasted over an hour all told and I seriously thought there was a good chance they'd die. Adrenaline and professionalism holds it all together while you're working but I was a wreck once I unplugged - shaking and emotional.
Managing shift work is a challenge. As parishiltons says, you need an understanding and supportive home environment - you aren't following the Mon-Fri 9-5 routine of the rest of your family so there has to be give and take to accommodate it. Doesn't help when the neighbour starts mowing when you're trying to sleep before a night shift though. Getting up at 7am when you have an 11pm finish doesn't necessarily work very well in the long term. |
Is there anyone out there from recent assessment days who would like to PM me with how you think you went and any advice for the day etc?
Thanks in advance for any info. |
Test
Originally Posted by mikewil
(Post 10246945)
Is there anyone out there from recent assessment days who would like to PM me with how you think you went and any advice for the day etc?
Thanks in advance for any info. I’m sitting it next Monday but by pure coincidence I had dinner with one of the guys who wrote the testing last night. He reckons all you’ve got to do is go in there nice and relaxed with a good nights sleep under your belt. You can’t train for it and it’s designed that way, so good luck! Regards, Andrew |
Any news from the people attending the assessment centre this week?
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Hey Vandelayy, I got the boot half way through the day, no interview, so while I was told I'd be contacted to find out whether I was successful, I highly, highly doubt, I'd be given an offer without an interview.
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@msage1993
Id love to reply to your message but it says your inbox is full, any chance you could delete a few old ones? |
Also curious to see how others have done this week
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Has anyone from last weeks assessment heard any news yet?
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Applications are open again
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Originally Posted by hansfalkenhagen
(Post 10269277)
Any news from anyone in regards to what it means whether you are sent home early during the assessment day as opposed to staying longer?
I have heard mixed things of those who are sent home early have failed, but have also heard of many other instances were people felt as though they did badly on the tests/simulations and were asked to stay for an interview (which they felt they went well with) but were still given a "thanks but no thanks" a week or so later? Anyone have any info on this in regards to the current process? Does going home early strictly means you failed, whereas staying for an interview definitely means you passed? The Airservices website has recently removed info on the OPQ and the "behavioural based interview" from the recruitment process section. So perhaps things have changed again recently? |
Hey Guys,
Just dropping a line to see if anyone has just applied for the latest recruiting round - commencing October '18? I myself have and having read previous posts, most questions seem to be covered. Just interested if anyone else is in the same boat as me. Cheers |
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