I have ordered the premium breakfast ;)

Hopefully I'll be a bit less stressed once I get started, that's how I usually am. I stress up before but once I'm there and doing it isn't a problem. Besides, I can always distract myself by some small talk with you fellow PPruners :cool:

Fail
 

KirjE, thanks for the response! I'll get the shirt and shoes on next year. Failed today at Prestwick. I can only presume mainly on the fuel and descent questions, the only things I wasn't aware were in stage one tests. So, I'm incredibly disappointed with that as I was pretty confident about the rest. A lot of folk got the weakest link treatment at the same time which I didn't expect. I guess I found PPRuNe too late.

Well done to all that got through (let me know if you were at prestwick this afternoon). For me, there's always next year! :{

Yes, I'll be attending the 11th at 9 am. I'm starting to feel a bit nervious at the moment.... hopefully will do ok!! :ok:

I've received that email too, but there aren't any changes... I think it was only a confirmation schedule email...

@ImpossibleIsNothing
I'm sorry to hear that, but you have a great nick and I'm confident you will make it there if that is what you want!

I'm working on some fuel questions now, will work a bit on descent aswell even though I feel fairly confident with that as it is the same formula as d/s/t really (well I guess fuel calculations are aswell but it feels a bit more tweaked).

@thunderdrive
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you, hopefully the 2nd paper went a lot better than you think!

@LIM
Yeah I guess it's just for confirmation. A weird way to remind someone though...

Time for bed soon I guess, been working a bit on fuel calculations now, starting to feel more confident with those. Then it's "just" descent that I havn't really done yet. Oh well, now I've planned the weekend with stuff (will have a few hours left to study though) and then on monday I have to start packing. It's getting closer (can anyone tell I'm excited yet :rolleyes:)!

Guys,

If you learn the document and can do spatial reasoning(cubes)...then chill and you'll be fine. The first 2 stages are very easy but the 2nd part(after the chop) is a case of being capable or not. Unfortunately I'm in the "not" cat for the cubes but will spend 6 months studying them!:ugh:

ImpossibleIsNothing:

Yep, the tests are quite difficult, and it brought me back to my A-Level maths/physics days. All I can recommend is that you get practicing and try again next year! Good luck :)

Hi guys, can someone please elaborate on the descent questions, and are the fuel questions the same as the ones on the RAF website?

Thanks

books
 

Hello guys,

I have some books to sell if anyone is interested.

ABC Air taffic control 10th edition by graham duke
Air band Radio hanbook by david smith
Atmosphere, Weather and Climate by roger barry and richard chorley

The atomsphere, weather and climate is useful pre reading to the basic course meterology lessons which is a large part of the basic course theory. It is a text book.

Grahm dukes air traffic control is a well known good read

air band radio again is just a good general read but is out of date in areas as it was published in 1997!

If anyone is interested in buying these books from me send me a message.

kwagga:

Typical questions are similar to...

A plane has 1800 litres of fuel remaining, and is using fuel at the rate of 300 litres per hour. When the plane lands, it must have at least an hours fuel on board. If the plane is travelling at 400 knots, which airfield should the plane try to land at:

A) 1500 miles away
B) 2000 miles away
C) 2400 miles away
D) None of the above.

Or...

A plane at FL310 is instructed to descend to FL280, if the plane is descending at a rate of 1200 ft per minute, how long will the plane take to descend to FL280.

A) 2 minutes 20 seconds
B) 2 minutes 40 seconds
C) 3 minutes
D) None of the above.

Hi,

This is actually an interesting question. Just tell me something: did you mean 'miles' from A) to C) or 'nautical miles'? I was just wondering, because as we all know 400 knots = 400 nautical miles per hour.

I'm assuming that in the actual paper, whenever they want to say nautical miles they explicitly say nautical miles, and similarly to miles or any other unit :)

EDIT: nevermind, 2400 nautical miles would be absurd. Of course you meant miles. Oh well, not too bad, just another conversion... thanks.

Questions
 

I hope the questions are of similar difficulty because I did both in my head without having the need to use a sheet of paper or a calculator.

I really hope so cause that would mean I can be confident of passing them

How do you all convert between Miles, Nautical Miles and KM? I can do between KM and NM quite good but miles I'm not used to at all (being Swedish I never use them, so I need a quick formula to use to convert to and from miles).

Oooh, that example is very useful! Thank you!

I'm just wondering if the SDT calculations are multiple choice? I'm severely doubting it, but thought it wouldn't hurt to ask :)

Questions
 

You do the work on the sheet you are given and then choose the answer from the multiple choice given

I also never use miles. In Portugal we use kilometres. I really don't think there's any quick formula... You just need to know how to convert between units and do them as quickly as possible in your head. Nautical miles to miles are really easy because 1 nm = 1.15 miles, so if you want (for example) to know many miles are 400 nautical miles, you just need to calculate 15% of 400 and add the result to 400. In this case the result would be 460 miles.

Similarly, 1 mile = 1.6 km, so if you need to convert X miles to km, just calculate 60% of X and add the result to X. At least this is how I do it. I find it easier than doing X * 1.6 in my head.

dcoliv et al:

I couldn't even be bothered to think of numbers that would work.

I was just trying to give an idea of the style of question, so you could have an idea of what to expect.

And yes, NATS (and presumably Eurocontrol) specifically state Nautical Miles when discussing distances. The only think you really need to know is that knots are Nautical Miles per Hour.

I got B and D.

The plane needs to descend 3000ft at a rate of 1200ft/min. 3000/1200 = 2.5?


Ah! Didn't realise it was multiple choice, that makes it a little better!

I also think the first one is B, because 2300 miles is the maximum distance the aircraft can travel before it reaches the point where it no longer has at least one hour of fuel available. So, it would need to land at an airfield less than 2300 miles away. A or B fit into this, but I think that we need to assume that the aircraft needs to travel as many miles as it can, thus A is out, I guess.

The second one is definitely not C. It's D. If the aircraft needs to descend from FL310 to FL280, then it needs to descend 3000 feet. If the descent rate is 1200 feet per minute, then it will descend 3000 feet in 2 and a half minutes (3000 / 1200 = 2.5), which is not one of the available answers.

Sure! Thanks :)

I'm loving how much thought you're putting into my quick questions, but yes, B and D would be correct.

To avoid any confusion on the NATS tests, questions that ask aircraft to land at a different airfield due to fuel issues usually only have one possible answer, ie, if a plane could only do another 150 miles, the options would be airfields 145, 155, 165 and None, so you couldn't argue "well he could have flown to A or B etc" :)

one thing I don't think I've seen on this thread is an example of the ATC motivation paper questions.... would anyone who's done stage 1 recently be kind enough to post up an example of the style of question...the wording, answer variety and so on?

I'd be very grateful and I'm sure so would a lot of others :)

"Aircraft declares fuel emergency, has x fuel left, using y fuel every z miles/minutes. Should you land at airport A)a1 B)a2 C)a3 or D)a4?" Usually giving distance or flight times away.

If you think about it, the mishap a/c has delcared an IFE/Fuel, so even if it has the fuel to get to the third closest airport, you don't send it there, you land it at nearest available strip that can handle a/c type, right? that's what I did, and I passed.....

Unrealdream:

Even though it's multiple choice a lot of the time there are three quite similar answers and then the option for none of the above. So I honestly can't stress how important it is to be perfect on the calculations and speed is incredibly important especially on the numeracy stuff, no one at my table managed to finish it all! Don't want to worry you, but it's very important! All the best. :ok:

The eternal problem between speed and accuracy. Oh well, seems not many people finish the entire paper, including a lot of them that make it through. So I belive I'll keep going at the speed I have when I've been practicing and hopefully it will be alright. Now I need to get back to packing...

Impossibleisnothing, thank you. I'm generally fine on the calculations but occasionally struggle with the working out the time (I'm working on them!).
I just think having a couple of options there would help speed it up a little. (Probably to be proven wrong lol)

After some comms difficulties, I have received my stage 2 invitation! Now all I have to do is choose between 18/11 and 6/12. I'm going to go down the night before and stay, and have already chosen my hotel, as I've stayed there before!

Anyone going to the Stage 1 test this Friday Nov 12th?

I've already booked a room for the Premier Inn Fareham. Has anyone stayed there before? How did you find the accommodations?

myself and NimrodMR2 will be there on Friday morning, yes :ok:

KirtjE:
Check your PM.

Fly Montana:
I`m there on Friday morning aswell.

Nautical Miles
 

Does anyone know if there is a physical difference in length of nautical mile when measured at the equator compared to the geographical poles due to compression?

PM me with any answers!

thanks.

It's the same all over.

Long answer:

There isn't, one nautical mile is 1852 meters, and a meter is defined by a metal stick in a basement in Paris. And since this metal stick is the same leangth all over the world (not calculating for the slight detraction and expanding with metal with chaning temperature) the nautical mile is also the same. How ever if you go and cut off an inch from that metal piece, then distances world over would be quite intresting :E

Hi,

Actually, I think that was the old definition. Since the 1980's, if memory doesn't fail me, the metre has been redefined as the distance travelled by light in vacuum in 1/c of a second (where c = speed of light, in metres per second).

I could be wrong though.

You know what, when I think about it you might be right. Hm, then I guess it takes some more effort for me to make a real impact in world history :( Dammit, it seemed like a good plan :rolleyes::mad::ugh::sad:

It was a fair idea! I think you should still do it, it'd mess with a few people at least ;)

Stage 1
 

Hi, Is there anyone who has sat their stage 1 of late? Im stuck with what maths to learn. Could someone please help. Ive done simple maths and speed, distance, and time stuff. What else do i need to revise?

Hi,

I recommend being able to convert between units really fast in your head. Nautical miles to miles and vice-versa, for example. This would also mean you would need to memorise the most common conversions. Just google it, you can't miss them. Also, being able to calculate percentages is also a must. Besides these, I can't think of anything else... It's a numeracy paper, not a calculus or linear algebra paper, ehehehe

If this conversation had occurred 30 years ago, you would have been correct! But it was redefined in 1983, I confirmed it moments ago.

Getting back to the actual question, it seems that nautical miles are not the same everywhere. Check the wikipedia article. I read it diagonally and I got that impression.

Intresting, seems it's a brititsh idea to change it with latitude. Copy of wikipedia:



In English usage, a sea mile is, for any latitude, the length of one minute of latitude at that latitude. It varies from approximately 1842.9 m at the Equator to approximately 1861.7 m at the Poles, with a mean value of 1852.3 m.[5] The international nautical mile was chosen as the integer number of metres closest to the mean sea mile.


How ever at the top of the article it says

The nautical mile (symbol M, NM, Nm or nmi) is a unit of length corresponding approximately to one minute of arc of latitude along any meridian. By international agreement it is exactly 1,852 metres (approximately 6,076 feet).


So it seems the nautical mile is always 1852 metres, how ever a "sea mile" would change somewhat with placement on the earth, that seems to be an idea implemented only in the UK though, this entire subject seems to be a bit odd :p

Indeed! Anyway, I highly doubt this will be an issue during the selection process or even when/if one becomes an ATCO...

Me to, but if the question comes about the diffrence between a nautical mile and a sea mile, now we know :cool: :p


I'm just finishing up my packing, flying to London tomorrow. If anyone else is staing at the premier inn Fareham I'll let the reception know I'm going to the NATS tests in the morning. So just ask them and they can hopefully point you in my direction so we can have a chat and perhaps arrange to share a cab in the morning (I'll be arriving around 5-6 pm btw) :)