anyone 3/12/2010 in Preswick for phase 1 ?

anyone 10/12/2010 at Fareham Whiteley?

I've just booked my stage 1 at Prestwick on 3/12/10. Now to book a hotel, how exciting!

Anyone on the forum at Prestwick on 05/11/10 for phase 1?

I have mine also on 03/12/2010 at Prestwick @ 13:00 hours.

How's everybody feeling about it, I have been studying like crazy, but somethings just aren't going in!! :ugh:

There's probably only so much studying you can do for phase 1 - you can brush up on mental arithmetic and possibly go over some diagramming but the spatial reasoning(shapes) is something that I believe you simply can/cannot do! Personally, I'm focusing on learning the pre-study material and trying to pick out and understand the Key areas. Do you really need to know exactly how many seats there are on a 737-800? Or would it not be more sensible to bracket the aircraft, such as having a ball park figure (150-180) for larger 737s etc. All this information, I believe, would be on a Flight Plan so I can't understand why an ATCO would have to know the exact amount for every a/c variation. Same with speed; the main Boeing and Airbus frames have cruising speeds of 430-500knots and again you can group these depending on size/Number of engines etc, whereas props are 230-250kts.
I'm doing plenty of work, but personally chilling out a bit will give me a better chance.....hopefully!! Good luck all.

NDW,

I notice from your profile that you applied for RAF WSOp - how did you get on? Did you attend OASC? PM if you want.

Spyder

Spyder35, Please see PM.

Thanks

I think you need to have an idea. You will probably never need to know the exact number of seats on a 737-800, but you need to be aware of the size of the aircraft, and the number of seats is related to that.

In my opinion, they ask us to thoroughly study the document in order to test our motivation. If you are motivated, you will learn the data no matter what. If someone is really interested in becoming an ATCO, he or she will surely have to spend many hundreds of hours studying all sorts of subjects, so the Stage 1 ATC paper tests whether you were interested enough in air traffic control :)

Dcoliv

I think knowing this would indicate that I would have an "idea"; I am learning the information to a detailed level and am fully aware of the rigorous attention to detail that will be required to be a NATS ATCO, however, knowing that a 737-500 has 171 seats for example, is not going to be as important as having a solid overall understanding and applying logical reasoning to answers. I'd imagine that NATS aren't trying to recruit parrots.

Yes, you are absolutely right, I forgot to mention on my earlier post that I agree with you. It is wiser to memorize like that. As already mentioned in this thread, you can also group aircraft by size (large, medium, small) or by route (transatlantic, etc.) in order to make the memorization process easier :)

EDIT: by the way, a little bit off topic:

I passed the FEAST and SDM tests this September in my country (Portugal), but unfortunately I didn't pass Stage 3 (group exercise + personality questionnaire + more computer tests + interview with a psychologist). They are only recruiting 6 people and there were 70+ candidates in Stage 3, so the odds were slim at best :(

I'm heading to Whiteley in December to attend Stage 1. Assuming that I pass this stage and that I am invited to attend Stage 2, do any of you think it is possible for me to skip the FEAST and SDM tests if I explain the situation to NATS? This way, I would attend Stage 2 and I would only do the NATS tests. I don't know if anyone here has been in this situation before.

I will gladly repeat the tests in Whiteley if I have to, but I read somewhere that people shouldn't repeat them. If you've passed once, then you shouldn't need to repeat them. So I'm guessing that if I explain the situation to NATS they will ask for my data, unless the FEAST/SDM tests NATS does are different from the ones done in EUROCONTROL and many other countries, but I'm assuming they are the same (I don't know whether this is a fair assumption because FEAST's last exercise is the one with the cubes, and NATS tests that as early as Stage 1, so perhaps they aren't exactly the same).

Thanks in advance.

Fareham - Stage One Tests 11th November 2010
 

Hi All,

Im Chris, and im due to be taking the Intitial Selection Tests in Fareham on the 11th November 2010. Anyone else on here due to be there?

Im personally bricking it at the moment, and trying to find out what I can study to give me a good chance of success on this date. My maths is my weakest area by far, so this is personally my main concern! They say speed/time/distance equations is the best thing to focus on?

Has anyone seen any good websites to visit or any advice? Would be cool to catch up with anyone attending on the 11th November also!!

Chris

Hi Chris,

From what I've read in this thread, Stage 1 (Part 1) is mainly about testing your motivation and your math skills. What everyone suggests regarding the former is to learn very thoroughly the 25 pages NATS sent you because it will be useful in the first paper. Also, if you want to go the extra mile, I recommend reading Air Traffic Control by Graham Duke. It's like 110 pages so you'll read that very quickly and it is very interesting. It presents basic stuff of the UK airspace and also many things concerning airport procedures and control centre operations. It is also easy to read, at least if you're interested in these matters :)

Regarding the math skills, have you tried the Speed Distance Time Tests for RAF OASC candidates website? They also have a fuel calculation test and an orientation test.

Good luck! :ok:

Cheers, i have checked out that site...whats the best way to deal with the heading questions? Just visualise a compass or do the maths?

I personally find it easier to visualise the compass. Just memorize (or remember, in case you're already familiar with it) the 4 basic headings (North, 360; South, 180; East, 090; West, 270) and left/right turns on each one.

So, for example, if they say you're heading East (090) and you turn right 90 degrees, it should be immediate that you're now facing South (180). 45-degree turns are also common, so I recommend knowing this (clockwise): 360, 45, 90, 135, 180, 225, 270, 315, 360 :)

Cheers!

Results from Stage 1???
 

Hi

Has anyone else had their results from the 18th October yet? Stage 1 at Fareham...?

Hi Chris,
I'll be there on the 11th aswell, are you on the morning or afternoon?
I'm on the morning, coming the night before (flying to the UK on wendsday and home again thursday evening) and then I have the morning pass with tests.

Thanks for the info :)

Human Resources
 

Hi Guys

I am due to sit the Stage One test in Prestwick on the 5/11/2010 but i have been in a accident at the weekend and i am unable to make the test now. And the test date which are online i still wont be able to make as they are in the next two weeks. I have been looking for the number to ring HR but i cant find it on any email correspondence that i have recieved. I sent a email, but i figured a phone call would be better as i am not sure if they would see the email in time.

If anyone has the number for HR could you please give it to me.

Thanks

Philip

Hi,

I'm sorry about your accident, but I'm sure NATS will understand. I found this on a website:

I hope it helps.

I'm there on the 5th! Not looking forward to it, nor sure I've given myself enough time for studying.

Linzi,

Are you there AM or PM? I'm in the AM session - is this your first attempt?

Hi Crazy Voyager!

Nice to meet you, I too am in the morning on the 11th! So its nice to actually make contact with someone whos gonna be there at the same time! Hows the revision etc coming along? Ive been doing distance/speed/time calculations and im struggling with the division! Argh! Still a few days left to continue studying!

Speed Distance Time
 

Definitely going to struggle on these stupid tests! Maths ability sucks!!

Can anyone give me a break down of this question, im trying to use the "distance = speed x time" equation but i keep getting huge numbers, or having to divide awkward ones! Any tips....

At 75 mph, how far do you travel in 4 mins?......

Think i have fixed that question at 5 miles, think im overly panicking! Has anyone got any tips at all for these questions....definitely a mathmatical douche here.

Guys, another one....

At 15 mph, how far do you travel in 12 hours and 48 mins?

Obviously the first stage is 15 x 12 = 180.... how do i now move on and work out the 48 mins?

I dont think its right to divide 15 by 60 and then times that by 48? I think im over complicating all this......

Burning the midnight oil? ;)

I'll get back to you in the morning with a proper reply, including how I'd think with the math questions ;) Right now I'm off to watch some TV though (again, had enough of the s/d/t questions earlier).

15 mph = 0.25 m per minute

12 h and 48 min = 720 min + 48 min = 768 min

so .... 192 miles

Hey guys I too have interview this Friday and feeling pretty nervous about it. Was wondering if anyone knows the details we need to prep for. My laptop has recently just crashed and seemed to delete everything from my hard drive and email so all of a sudden i'm feeling pretty scared and uninformed :confused::confused::ugh:

Cheers.

guys, I thinking breaking it down into miles per minute is over complicating things.

for example, I find it a hell of a lot easier this way...

At 15 mph, how far do you travel in 12 hours and 48 mins?


like you said Chris, 12 hours gets you 12x15=180miles.

Now, as has been mentioned a lot, your 6x tables comes into play. 48 minutes is 8x6, and with 6mins being a tenth of an hour, 48mins then becomes 8/10 of an hour. So, 15mph x8/10 which is 12.

Total being 192miles.

6
12
18
24
30
36
42
....

etc etc :E

Hi,

I think you can tackle this problem in two different ways:

1. distance = speed * time, so distance = 75 * 4 = 300. But then you need to divide this by 60, which in this case is easy: 300 / 60 = 5 miles (if you can't do this in your head, just do 30 / 6 instead, i.e., just memorize the 6 times table).

2. The math in this example is easy, but if you get a harder division you will be losing a lot of precious time. I personally prefer to think like this:

One hour is 60 minutes. So, 1/2 an hour is 30 minutes; 1/3 of an hour is 20 minutes; 1/4 of an hour is 15 minutes; 1/5 of an hour is 12 minutes; 1/6 of an hour is 10 minutes; and so on. Just memorize this.

So, if they ask for 4 minutes, you just need to relate that to one of these mentioned above (it may not be immediate). In this case, if 1/5 of an hour is 12 minutes, then 4 minutes = (1/5 of an hour) / 3, because 12 / 3 = 4, right?

Therefore, if you travel 75 miles in 1 hour, then you travel 75 / 5 miles in 1/5th of an hour (12 minutes): 75 / 5 = 15. To obtain 4 minutes, just divide again by 3 (this is really the "trick"): 15 / 3 = 5.

You could have also immediately divided 75 by 15, because 1/3 of 1/5 is 1/15, but it is harder to divide 75 by 15 than 75 by 5 and then by 3.

I really cannot explain this in a better way. This method seems complicated for this particular question, because the math is straightforward. But if you get into more complicated examples, it usually simplifies things because you break down the math into simpler calculations.

I'll just show another example:

At 15 mph, how far do you travel in 2 hours 20 minutes?

In 2 hours you travel 15 * 2 = 30 miles. Then you need to find the extra 20 minutes. Like I said, 20 minutes is 1/3 of an hour. So, in 20 minutes you travel 15 / 3 = 5 miles. Final result: 30 miles + 5 miles = 35 miles.

You could also have done this: if 1 hour = 60 minutes, then 2h20m = 140 minutes. So, 15 * 140 = 2100, and 2100 / 60 = 35 miles.

Notice how easier it is to apply the first method in this case. It is straightforward and you don't lose any time multiplying or dividing stuff.

Now imagine the question is "at 15 mph, how far do you travel in 2 hours 54 minutes?"

In this case, since 54 is not straightforward, you need to find a relation between 54 and the hour, like I've done with the 4 minutes in the other example. In that example, I used 4 = 12 / 3. Now you should use 6 * 9 = 54. As 6 is 1/10 of an hour, 54 minutes is 1/10 * 9 = 9/10 of an hour. So, in 54 minutes, you travel (15 * 9) / 10 = 13.5 miles. Now just add this to the other 30 miles (15 mph * 2 hours) and you get 43.5 miles.

In the end, I just think you need to choose the method which will save you more time.

I hope this helps.

I think I'll be staying at the Premier Inn Fareham the night before Stage 1, in Whiteley.

What is the best way to go to the CTC in the morning? I won't have a car.

I think it's possible to walk but you need to go through the motorway so I'd like to avoid that. It also seems to be a very short distance in order to catch a taxi. Are there any buses around that take you to that area?

Thanks

Hi guys....first time poster here.

Got my stage 1 booked at Prestwick on the 3/12/10 @ 9am. Excited and nervous....but the forum is excellent!!

All the best :)

Great post but you've made a slight error here, the good thing is that it is really quite easy to spot if you think about it.
You've said that "in 54 minutes you travel (54 * 9) / 10 = 48.6 miles". But we already know that we were travelling with 15mph, so in less then one hour there's now way we can have travelled more than 15 miles.

The correct answer should be that in 54 minutes you travel 13.5 miles (15 miles per hour, and 54 minutes is 9/10 of an hour. So therefore I substracted 1.5 from 15 and got 13.5).
So final answer is 30+13.5=43.5 miles in 2 hours and 54 minutes (notice this is very close to 45 miles that you would travel in 3 hours, so the answer makes sense).

Well seems we have a lot of good posts about maths so I won't be posting more on that subject now anyhow :p

It's great to finally know I won't be completly alone pn the big day :ok:
I'm going to stay at the premier inn the night before, will you be driving down on the same day?

I've really not been revising the motivation paper at all, I looked it over but I know almost everything in there already (no not the aircraft specs in detail but I know the general idea, B747 for short hauls and an E135 cross the atlantic :E) so therefore it hasn't been a priority.

I've been playing a little puzzle game every day ( Set Daily Puzzle ), mostly to get used to sorting shapes and because it might give me some practice in problem solving (it's quite fun aswell :p), so I've done that every day for a while now.

Then I've gotten underway with the d/s/t calculations, picked up a paper for the first time yesterday, I'm solving the questions at around 22-23 seconds each now but I want to work that down a lot more. I know I spend a lot of time doing writing now that I don't need to (writing when the speed is 60mph for example). So now that's the major thing I'm trying to smooth out.

Other then that I'm planning to look over the NATS example cubes at least two times before the big day, but since I only have found those three cubes to work with it's not easy to prepare for that part. Perhaps I will make a few cubes of my own though, but we'll see.

So overall, it's going well (I think!) but it's so hard to say. I don't belive there's anyway you can overprepare for this and even I'm feeling confident in my abilities, how ever I'm still certain those test will be everything but easy. :suspect:

How about yourself? It seems you're focusing a lot on the math right now?

ehehe, you're right, I got the numbers mixed up while writing the post. Well, I've already learned one thing today: never post math stuff here before drinking the morning coffee! :ok: I'm going to edit the post, thanks for spotting the error!

No worries, I've done it myself so many times aswell ;)

Guys,

Just doing some prep for my stage one this Friday and brushing up on airspace etc. Could someone confirm the class of airspace at aerodromes,TCAs; I was sure it was all Class D in the UK and this is what it says in the NATS pre reading material but it mentions Class A as well in the CAP493 document.

Am I over-complicating things here?

Thanks in advance

Spyder

Class D is the most common but for example Heathrow has class A airspace for it's CTR. You will also find a lot of the Terminal areas in the UK have class A around London and Manchester.

But most common should be class D as far as I know.

Thanks,

The way it is written in the material, to me, reads that control areas around aerodromes are Class D...no mention of Class A, but as we both knos, it does exist.

Cheers

I'm not sure it's intended for you to know that class A do exist around airports, it's likely it's considered overkill at the first stage. But being well prepared never hurts I guess :ok: