whilst discussing mistakes on the NATS booklet, did anyone notice how it states x million flights a year at the beginning, was that supposed to be a number they forgot to macro in? lol or just my version?

I haven't checked, but I can say with near-certainty that you'll find the correct number somewhere prominent on the NATS website. They freaking LOVE numbers like that. Sorry, did I say 'numbers'? I meant 'metrics'. Oops.

Stage 3, 21st September 2009
 

I have been given the option of booking my Stage 3 for the 21st September, and hope to do so, pending a few current work arrangements. Just hope it's not booked out by the time those arrangements have been made!

Will keep you posted, best of luck! :ok:

Freestyle
 

I'll be there on friday but for my stage 2. Don't worry about the facts being right or wrong, they just want to see if you can recall the information they have given you. So don't try and be too clever!

Seb

Stage One question
 

Hi All,

I've just joined, this forum is so useful, really glad I've found it.

I've been reading through and learning the information NATS send you in preparation for the Stage 1 test, the last 8 or so pages are taken up with stats of Aircraft regularly using UK airspace. I was just wondering if anyone would kindly advise whether I need to learn these off by heart or not? I'd prefer to spend more time concentrating on the bread and butter areas but obviously don't want to abuse this area should I actually need to learn it.

Thanks!

John ;)

Freestyle
 

It´s totally correct.

Hey guys,

Just wanted to say a quick thankyou to everyone who's posted, I had my stage 1 this afternoon and I found this thread really helpful during preperation.

As I've now been through stage one I figured I'd do my bit and answer a few questions, so here's a quick description of the tests I had today:

There's quite a long personality questionaire (about 100 questions) to do as soon as you get there, I figure the best you can do is answer this honestly - its not a test and I don't think there are right or wrong answers. After this the tests begin. All the tests were multiple choice.

The first test was the ATC motivation test, based upon the 30 pages of info they email you before you book the test. They gave us 18 mins to finish this (think it was about 20 - 30 questions) which I found was plenty. I didn't find this particularly hard, though there were one or two answers I wasn't sure about... as long as you've read the stuff they send you through thuroughly several times you shouldn't find it too hard. There were only a couple of questions on the aircraft info in the back, if you have a general idea of the kind of destinations the most common aircraft can fly to and at what kind of speed you would have done ok on the test I sat today... but who knows what they might choose to ask on any given day, I've no idea if everybody sits the same paper or not, so if it were me I'd still suggest memorising as much detail as possible anyway.

The next test was the spatial reasoning test (the infamous cubes). For this we had 20 mins to answer 40 questions. They are exactly like the example questions NATS send out in the emails you get before the test, but they do get quite a bit harder (the patterns get a bit more complicated and the 2D frame is a much harder layout in the later questions). I think the hardest thing about these is the time, I managed (just) to get it all finished, but the fact that you are being pushed for time makes it tougher than it would be at a more leisurely pace. At 40 questions in 20 mins thats one every 30 seconds, so bare that in mind when preparing.

The next test was the diagramming test. Again this was very similar to the example they email you before hand. Some of them got a bit long and you have to juggle a whole load of operations and symbols around in your head at once to work out the answer. They did give us scrap paper for rough working in this one, but again the time limit is the trickiest bit and I think if you have to start scribbling you'd likely not finish it all. You have 50 questions in 20 mins. I managed to finish 49 of them.

The final paper is the arithmatic test. This is all distance speed time questions. Most were very straight forward mental arithmatic. I had to use the scrap paper to calculate a couple of the harder ones. Yet again, none of the questions were terribly difficult in and of themselves, but the time limit means you have to work quite fast and there is little time to check your answers. I think this one was 25 questions in 15 minutes. I finished but had no time to check my answers.

Hope this is helpful, if anyone has any questions I'd be happy to help. If anyone else was there today I hope it went well for you, good luck.

What have people been wearing for stage 2? Would i be over dressed in a suit?

Seb

Cheers for that. i would have stuck with the text but it niggled my mind some :)

Please don't take this personally, but this question has been asked countless times.

More to the point, however; if NATS have stated in their invite...

"The information contained in this document will also form part of the first stage of the selection. Candidates are strongly advised to read it carefully."

...would it not make sense to learn the provided information as well as you possibly can? Who knows, there may be twenty questions on aircraft stats, there may only be two.

The paper in question relates to motivation, and as such, if a candidate really does have motivation for this job they would surely go ahead and learn all facts rather than attempt to compromise.

Thats the thing...it isn't an interview. The email says wear smart/casual.

there is an old adage that says you can never be over dressed for an interview!

one other tip- never wear cream trousers- if you splash yourself washing your hands or having a drink, it looks like you peed yourself- it DOES get noticed!

lol pugwash sounds like you are speaking from experience. Ok so i will wear a suit! I am quietly confident about Stage 2...don't know why just have a good feeling. 2 Days to go!

Sebby,

At my stage 2, out of the group of 9/10 candidates, only 1 guy out of the group wore a suit (not me!) which in my opinion looked a bit overdressed for a day of computer tests :cool:
Everyone else was smart casual - shirts and trousers.

So basically a suit without the jacket and tie lol

Correct. I wore a tie and jumper and felt slightly over dressed. I would suggest wearing a shirt though (i.e. not a t-shirt).

At my Stage 1 yesterday everyone was wearing a suit. One or two of the ladies were dressed a little less formally, but only a little. I would assume similar dress would be appropriate for stage 2 - even if it is only computer tests there will still be NATS staff who are there to run the assessment and may well be taking note of things like how you dress. I may be wrong, but I certainly got the impression in stage 1 that we were being observed quite closely throughout.

Pat, you mean there was pretty much always a security guard there watching us? :ooh:

hehe, it was a pretty awesome place in my opinion, I didn't expect it to be such a MASSIVE building at least from the outside!

I think the people that complete all the cube questions either got the majority wrong or are incredibly gifted. The two times I've done the cube(once for Eurocontrol and once for NATS) I don't think I got half way through them.

I still passed on to the next stage though. Just a tip from somebody that has passed the cube stage.

Hey Fumbles,

I meant that the lady taking us through all the tests was probably taking more of a note of our appearance and behaviour etc. than she let on. I don't know how much any of that counts for, but I'd imagine if you behaved like an idiot (which nobody did) you probably wouldn't get an invite to stage 2 even if you aced the tests....

Don't worry too much about the maths paper, I'm sure that you did fine. I literally only just finished it in time and reckon I probably made a few mistakes because I didn't have time to check my answers. The timings were pretty tight and they were obviously designed to push you, I think the ability to work accurately and efficiently without panicking under pressure are more important that completing the test. I get the impression from these forums that a lot of people don't finish all of the tests and still get through.

I did my stage one tests on 25th August but I didn't get given a personality test. I was there 40 mis early so it wasn't a case of not being there in time!!!

"I think the people that complete all the cube questions either got the majority wrong or are incredibly gifted. The two times I've done the cube(once for Eurocontrol and once for NATS) I don't think I got half way through them"

Mmmm I have to disagree DIAF I'm not especially gifted but have been trainning myself rotten on cubes and Operations and I'm impressed with my performance. I can answer 40 questions based on cubes with one minute to spare and my best result was 38/40 (95%)

Take heart and practice, get it wrong, practice, get it wrong, practice, get it right, practice, get it right, practice some more! If our test scores translate into a percentile mark based on say 50 candidates the difference just one or two marks can make is considerable. So don't think this is in the "hands of the gods" learn and practice and you will improve!

My test date is 11th Sept at 13.00 up in Prestwick. Anyone got the same time/place?

I second that, VFFX, I'm not particularly talented either, but practice makes perfect on the cubes - at least it did for me! :cool:

VFFX just so you know you won't be competing against other applicants in the tests. There is a pass mark which if you reach then you are through, if you don't you are not. Although as you say, getting a higher mark will help you out considerably to get that pass mark.

Will be doing my stage 1 on the 30th September in fareham... i kno its ages away but just thought i would ask if anyone else is going for that date?

As i am heading down from Liverpool i will be doing so the day before and staying over... can anybody give me the names of good places to stay?

Much Appreciated

Ian

ianb87 I am going on the 30th, at 12 am. Its also my 23rd Brthday!!!!
I plan to drive down the night before from near heathrow.

Hello everyone.

I've recently booked my stage 3 and it's only now that I've joined the forum.

I don't know what everyone else thinks but there seems to be a lot of people searching for the answers for the early stages when that part of the process is designed to identify who is potentially capable of doing the job and eliminate those who aren't. In other words if your brain doesn't work that way then it doesn't work that way. If you learn the cube test "parrot fashion" for stage 1, then when they test you for the same ability in a different format at stage 2 you will most likely be caught out.

The best advice is to relax and enjoy the experience...

Anyone who is about to complete stage 2, I passed mine in July and although it was a very intensive day the biggest tip I can give is not to crack when you make a mistake or two. Take a second to regain your composure and get back on track. There is an exercise in the afternoon that you can't practice for - a simulation of being an ATC - so for all those people having nightmares involving cubes, like I said there will be a point where you can either do it or can't do it.

Well I'm not blowing my own trumpet here but after doing very little preparation for the cubes I answered them all and got through stage 1. As many people have said, over practice and you're just kidding yourself, if you have practiced for hours for a 20 minute test, how long are you going to have to spend extra if you get through and go onto training?

I think it is important to know whats ahead of you but unlike GCSEs and A levels you're not working against a set curriculum as such and therefore it should be treat like that. I'm not saying don't prepare but hours and hours of practice may get you past stage one but its your time you're wasting when you don't get past S2, S3, training or validation.

All in all if NATS wanted you to practice, they would let you do so on the SHL website or their own.

You owe it to yourself to relax, get a good nights sleep and a good breakfast, and thats it! Thats certainly the mindset I'm taking in with me to S2 anyway!

Having passed all three stages and been given my start date for the college I completely agree with the previous two statements. The best thing to do is relax, sleep well, and eat well the day of the testing.

The most studying I did when I was going in for my testing was read the information NATS sent me(several times) and took down some notes on the main things and abbreviations.

Aside from that I got a good nights sleep, a huge breakfast, and went in with a positive attitude.

With regards to the info that NATS send to you, how well do you need to know it?

Obviously theyve sent it to you for a reason, but, are you really expected to know how many seats a Boeing 747 has?

Yes .

Inchy,

This question comes up a lot, so well worth reading back through the thread a bit for more advice, but here's my two pence...

I recently sat my S1 and made a point of trying to memorise all of that data (though I must admit that there are a few details I probably couldn't recall perfectly). NATS include it in their document, so in theory they can ask you any of it. In my test, and I get the impression this is fairly standard, there were only two or three questions on this stuff... but you don't know which aircraft those two or three questions are going to be on (and I don't think it would be appropriate for me to tell you) so if you don't know it all then you risk throwing away a few marks here if you aren't lucky about which details they quiz you on.

The above said, if you are struggling then here are a few pointers:

Firstly, remember that all the tests are multiple choice, so if learning the exact details of every aircraft are a little too much then try to learn a few ballpark figures (e.g. x group of aircraft all fly within +/-20kts of speed y). This should hopefully give you enough to work out the correct answer from the selection on offer.

Secondly, I found quite a useful technique was to try and understand the relationships between the different aircraft. For example I know that, with the exception of the 747 (which is the big daddy), the boeing aircraft generally get bigger, fly further and fly higher as the numbers get bigger. Based upon this knowledge and given a multiple choice of answers you should be able to make a reasonably educated guess as to the specific details of any of the boeing aircraft based upon the details of one or two others. This means that if, for example, you know the stats for the 737 and the 777, then even if you can't remember the stats for the 757 or the 767 you should be able to guess these with a reasonable degree of accuracy.

Memorising operators is a bit harder. I found it easier to approach this by learning which aircraft the main operators (as listed in the NATS document) fly, rather than learning a list of operators for each specific aircraft. For example I know that British Airways fly a predominantly Boeing fleet - thus I just remember one fact to recall a common operator of every single type of boeing aircraft (except the 737NG) rather than learning this as one fact for each aircraft... the end result is the same, but it is a different way of looking at the problem which I found simplified it a lot.

Hope this helps.

No, its just a sick joke NATS play...:bored::}

It beggars belief how many times this question has been asked! :ugh:

Quote:

---

Well I'm not blowing my own trumpet here but after doing very little preparation for the cubes I answered them all and got through stage 1. As many people have said, over practice and you're just kidding yourself, if you have practiced for hours for a 20 minute test, how long are you going to have to spend extra if you get through and go onto training?

I think it is important to know whats ahead of you but unlike GCSEs and A levels you're not working against a set curriculum as such and therefore it should be treat like that. I'm not saying don't prepare but hours and hours of practice may get you past stage one but its your time you're wasting when you don't get past S2, S3, training or validation.

All in all if NATS wanted you to practice, they would let you do so on the SHL website or their own.

You owe it to yourself to relax, get a good nights sleep and a good breakfast, and thats it! Thats certainly the mindset I'm taking in with me to S2 anyway!

---

I dont agree with these comments at all. If you cant do the cubes, then practise like mad until you can. Being able to the the cubes straight away is absolutely no indication of wether you are going to become a valid ATCO. I couldn't do the cubes, I made cubes and practised for hours, and I still struggled on the test day. How can you say people are wasting there time by practising for hours and hours, its a crazy statement to make.
Like I said, I practised for hours and hours. I did the same for my interviews, and when I got to college, I revised for hours and hours each night, and when I got to Swanwick, I revised for hours and hours. I validated, some others who validated might have revised and practised for less time, some for more time, some might have sussed the cubes straight away, others after hours of practise. I still cant do the cubes now, but I have my ticket.

I dont fancy your chances much if you are already looking at ways to cut corners.

If a prospective employer sends you something, bloody read it, learn it. DOnt look forr ways to get round learning parts of it. That will not stand you in good stead when/if you do get through to training.

Hi all!

Just got back home after a 3 and a half hour drive from Portsmouth having sat my Stage 2. An email was sitting there waiting for me saying i had passed!! WOOP WOOP

An intense day, but by no means boring. They test your ability to multi task to the limit lol. Cubes at this stage are easier!!!! You can not prepare and don't try. Turn up, relax and enjoy it all!! I met some great people and best of luck to them.

I am booked in for Stage 3 Oct 7th...thats the earliest!

Seb

Congratulations SebbyK, I hope I get my email as quick as you did next week! One way or another! I don't think I can take another 3 weeks!!!

We all basically pleaded with the lady (Jo) to send us the results as soon as possible as she found out the results instantly anyway. So she said ok :D Best of luck mate, all i can say is you either have what it takes or you don't....nothing else can be done. Just relax and have fun! They brought a graduate from the college in at lunch to speak to us, he was very helpfull and basically made me want the job more...luckily i got through! Just one more stage to go but have to wait a month!

Seb

Cheers Sebby! I'm just looking forward to next friday now!

Just stumbled across this game, challenging at first but good fun!

Multitask | Armor Games

Enjoy!