Best of luck those who are going for test tomorrow. Hope you can give us some feedback about the test and how any of them appearing for the test are preparing.

ATC_intrain, have you ever seen Fight Club?:ouch:



BTW, good luck to you and all the other hopefuls! I hope your not left waiting for too long,

Cheers

Over the years, PPRuNe has been a useful resource for people researching jobs in our industry and how to make it - flight deck, ATC, Ops, Cabin Crew, you name it.

People doing research or asking questions shows initiative. At the end of the day, no matter how detailed the answers here might be, it's still up to the individual to make it in to the selection process and then perform on the day. Many of the touchy-feely Human Resources and personality aspects can't be rehearsed anyway ... their actual value to providing an operational ATC person is another topic of course.

We don't intend to stifle any of the professional information given by our members now, or in the future.

Assessment Centre Process:

It is mandatory that you bring the following with you on the day:

• A signed copy of the statutory declaration (attached)

How do we get the same???

PR - a big well done from me and I'm sure many others.

ASA recruitment process itself is completely ridiculous for both experienced and new controllers and that's just one problem of many, many, many. They are also slow, slow, slow and just sooooo far behind the rest with their technology. I can go through the recruitment for another ANSP and be offered a job and completed training before ASA can even complete round one of their circus - (not to mention the 12 month classroom course for experienced controllers).

You new guys be warned what you are getting yourselves in to. Please carefully weigh up your options. Ask yourself why it takes sooooo long just to get an emailed reply from HR and to be shown some professional courtesy. This is not a caring company - they are second rate and everything they do just demonstrates it.

Well done PPRUNE - don't let the BULLY shut you down.

PR et al, my comments were intended as a tongue in cheek reference to the post by RECRUITMENT ASA back on page 66.

I'm glad you've picked up on the issue.

Cheers

moving from brisbane to melbourne
 

If this rain keeps up, might be easiler to just put some oars out the window and paddle to melbourne, house and all. anyone give me a hand? otherwise I'll just be rowing in circles...
:rolleyes:

Hey guys, just a quick question (which I'm going to email ASA about as well). I had my ophthalmologist appointment today for my license and paid the money for the fee ($330). Do I contact ASA about getting that reimbursed?

That was the last step for my license too, but haven't heard from them about a starting date still. Does anyone know if they have been waiting til they get confirmation of your license before putting you in a course? It'd be nice to know sometime soon, especially as I'd really like to let work know!

Hope all the QLDers are ok after the shocking weather, and didn't have any damage or losses!

They reimburse you for all the medical cost in your first month, you just fill out the forms with the reciets when you get there. You need to have your medical certificate sent (faxed) to them before the first day. When i got offered the course day they just asked if i had the medical stuff organised

Why wouldn't you ask these questions direct to your potential employer in the first instance instead of an anonymous aviation forum?

Bit harsh baileys, no need to be like that.
It's not like the potential employer is known for giving out easy information or the recruitment process has much communication.

ps. I remember waiting over a month for an email reply from people and change waiting on the merit list.

Thankyou for the helpful information fivel, and for pointing out to Baileys about how ASA tends to work. I have emailed ASA for the official answer, but I figured I'd find out what everyone else knows and I knew the reply would be much quicker.

Hi All,
Just wondering if anybody has got any response from the ASA since the interviews were held in jan... the waiting is killing:ugh:... when will this end.

Hahhaha never!!!

how much are you willing to give up?
 

just a quick note, having studied in the college and seen how it works i very much agree with 'BAILEYS'- the place is run like a cattle market. training is inadequate, you are merely a number (not a human being with feelings), there is a total lack of understanding by management what trainees actually have given up to participate in such a course, and it is very much a miserable existence whilst at the college. this is not a biased opinion but one that is felt very much by many of those i knew and many of those still there having kept in regular contact! be ready for a ****fight for those who do go forth.......thats all i will say!

PS if you are in a good secure job think very very hard, the only good thing about the place was meeting a good bunch of friends. the rest is as bad as bad gets.....i read on here long ago about how bad it was, thats not true-ITS MUCH WORSE!

How much would you give up?
 

Don't tell me these things ATC_DEFG unless of course you are telling what is reality for everyone. You're not the only person saying this but my situation is I'm in a safe job with one of the big banks and have a good comfortable life style. I'm rolling the dice on this as I'm late 40's and needing a new direction and aviation has always been my passion whereas head-office banking is....well a way to make a reasonable living. If I leave then after a year if it falls apart it could be a hard road to get back to where I was.

I'm scheduled for the all day aptitude tests/interviews soon so was interested how many others agree with you or not.

That's a big roll to make planesense! The training is certainly no picnic & you will be required to demonstrate you're up to scratch or out you go. Can't comment from direct personal experience of training or instructing in the current "academy" but it doesn't rate highly in the opinion of those I know who've achieved ratings in the last few years.

No idea what sort of money you're on but have you done the sums? Not many of us make it to working past 60 - partly because we can retire earlier but also the shift work gets harder to take & you slow down mentally. I'm mid 40s FWIW & have been at it for 20 years.

Statistically speaking the older you are the harder you'll find the training, but that's just the stats & each individual is different. When was the last time you studied intensively for a prolonged period?

With respect to being treated as a number, it's a serious business with (many) lives at risk so sometimes hard decisions are required & trainees terminated. The sacrifices a trainee has made can't enter into that decision. Thankfully it's not a decision I have to make but those controllers who make it are well & truly aware of what their decision means. Can't speak for the management types. "Would I trust you with my family?" is the question some ask.

All that said I enjoy my job & work with a great bunch of people.

Ask them for a sample roster. Don't take the answer that it is as per the certified agreement, ask to see a practical example.

Unfortunately planesense he is right on the money. You need very thick skin to get through (having a pair of breasts also helps, at least in the college phase), and basically be prepared to be a zombie for a year and a half (MINIMUM) on terrible money. Is it worth it in the end? Definitely. But however hard you think it will be, double it. However hard you think it will be on your personal/family life? Double it. Financially? Same again.

Whilst I don't mean to discourage you, my experience at the college was that everyone over 35 crashed and burned quite early in the piece. There's no denying that you need the speed to learn new things very very quickly. Still all the best for your testing.

How much would you give up?
 

Thanks le Pingouin & tobzalp & Undercover Brother (and anyone else who responds)

You've really made some observations that I need to take note of. I'm not pulling the pin just yet (after I may not even get through which is the most likely outcome) but you’ve caused me to pause for a moment to reassess the situation. I will go ahead and sit the test but I’m wondering where to next if I actually was given the opportunity to proceed. I’d note that where ever you go people are unhappy with management and generally it’s a fair assessment as people who manage are often people who couldn’t cut it at the coal face. They’re just a bit more ambitious than you and I and so inflict their incompetence out on us. Sometimes good people are bad managers simply because the framework they are forced to work within would make anyone bad. The question is how bad is Oz ATC which is something I need to gauge based on the feedback I’m hearing?

So far the discussion is all academic as I’ve yet to pass Base 4 but it sounds like I need to consider whether the dream will survive or not from the hard dose of reality should I be selected. If any of you guys know that you’ll be in Collins St CBD Melbourne and want to have a coffee on the banks expense feel free to send an offline message.
I have friends that are Dentists, Lawyers, Plumbers, Doctors etc but no trained ATC’ers thus it’s been hard (read impossible) to form a balanced opinion of what the job is like. So much spin and so little facts!

Management = slightly worse than your average large company.

By all means if it interests you, have a crack. The job is awesome. Just have a good plan B. I.e, if you can take LSL or leave without pay for 6 months, something like that.

Well, to be frank, what you are chasing are opinions. There can be no 'facts'. Ones experience of AsA is going to be entirely subjective, by definition.
I can only add to the chorus that AsA was the worst employer I have had. The best job, for the worst employer.
As to your situation: In banking, you would be well versed in risk. The sort of facts you could apply in making an assessment are
- you haven't even passed testing, interviewing etc, so are a way from making a decision
- older candidates will struggle (to make it thru the process), given the amount of service you have left in you, and the difficulty of the course
- historically, something like 50% of the candidates who start training will end up as ATCers. That is a biggie. If your starting the course is a 'point of no return', then ponder this point deeply.
You sound like you will have regrets if you do not move this forward, so, personally, I would say try it, but do a lot of work on your plan B from here on. If you consider that staying in your present position is not an option, then you won't regret changing course, whether that results in you becoming an ATC or a coffee shop owner. But I digress. Meeting actual current employees is probably the best thing you can do at this point.
Lots could be said about that.

planesense,

Obviously on the most part, all you will find here is a helluva lot of opinion and very little fact. My two cents worth is that I believe the difficulty of the course is highly exaggerated. It really is not as hard as people on here tend to make out. Air traffic control basically just requires quick, clear thinking and the application of common sense, something that is missing when it comes to AsA management - but that is another story. (On that point, it is best to not get involved and worked up with things that don't directly affect you!) However, as others have suggested, it is wise to have a solid Plan B in place - just in case. I really find it difficult to explain why the failure rate is so high - particular during the college phase, this is not rocket science for goodness sake.

Financially speaking, it can be a burden and something you seriously need to consider - particularly if you have a family to look after. All going to plan you would be on a touch under 40k p.a for the college phase (about 11-12 months); 60k p.a for final field training (another 3 - 6 months) and 80k on gaining your initial endorsements and then jumping about 10k p.a as you progress up the salary scale.
Definitely factor all that into your decision. (based on the March 2011 salary scale - there are 2x 3% increases due by March 2012)

The job can be terribly, terribly boring at times - if you detest boredom like myself, you may not like this job. At other times (particularly during summer storms) it can be extremely challenging and mentally draining.

There are a high percentage of people who have only ever worked as an ATC and some of which can be very, very bitter and negative. This is nearly impossible to avoid when you get to the field but it is best just to entertain their misgivings and gripes and don't let yourself get sucked in to it all. Some of their complaints are fair, but a lot of the time things are blown out of proportion due to their contempt towards AsA.

I certainly don't think AsA should win any awards for being a good employer - but I do think they are better than what people here make out. As I said, a lot of these guys have only ever known this employer! IMHO, a lot of the 'issues' stem from the Certified Agreement between AsA and Civil Air being very grey in nature and open to interpretation. Only the union can be blamed for that, although the member's don't see it this way.

All in all, I guess I am trying to give you a more favourable opinion of the place - these things always tend to trend towards the negative. The happy and content generally don't bother themselves with getting involved and expressing their opinions! My personal feeling is ATC is an interesting, different and rewarding job that allows you to be part of a team, yet exercise your independence and have a high degree of personal responsibility. When you unplug at the end of your shift - you go home without a worry in the world. No deadlines to meet, no reading to do, nothing to prepare for the next day! It is fantastic in that sense.

Good luck with your testing and I wish you all the best in whatever path you decide to take. Anymore specific details/questions - feel free to pm me.

Looking forward to my not so "happy, content" colleagues to have a go at me! :)

coneyisland, maybe you're a "natural" & found it easy but a 50% success rate from start of course to end of field training with most of the attrition in the college would indicate otherwise for many trainees.

It takes two to make an agreement & when there's no penalty for one party creatively interpreting that agreement, it doesn't matter how tight you make it. Management don't have to be like that but choose to be so. They don't have to be so combative & deliberately slow to negotiate agreements but they choose to be so. And it costs us big time - pay is frozen & there's no backdating to make up for it.

Come back when you've been through that cycle a few times & see if your rosy view is still there. It wears a bit thin once you've seen it repeated despite promises "this time will be different".

I think you'll find most controllers did something else before coming to ATC. It's certainly the case in my area. That said a lot have been controlling for a long time.

Has anyone heard about their current progress lately? My references were contacted last week so I'm hoping that's a good sign... The waiting is killing me somewhat though, just want a result one way or the other...
Good luck to everyone...

Kieran

update: my Application Details page now says that I'm on the merit list! when I did the testing day (mid Jan) Gemma said that the next course would probably be in April. Has anyone recieved any phone calls or emails?

YAHOOOO!!! I got my call today, on the enroute course starting on the 18th of April :D Gemma said she was trying to call all the other people on that course today, and provided she got on to everyone and they all accepted, she'd be able to get out the offer letters (emails) tomorrow before she heads off next week to another testing day in Sydney. So I guess if you didn't get a call today, or don't have a missed call from a blocked number, then you might not be on the April course :(

Did anyone else get a call today? I'm looking to share a place down in Melbourne hopefully! Rather be with other people on the course than random strangers :)

AWESOME!
Spoke to gemma today and I'm through into the April 18th course! Now I just have to get my D&A test done and convert my medical into a class 3 and I'll be set! Congrats to Fatty182! Any word on who else is heading through?

kieran

Congratulations kieran :) you're the only other person so far I know of on the April course. I guess most of the others aren't on pprune!

Gday Fatty and Keiran,

Congratulations on getting in. Do you mind letting me know when you applied? I completed on-line testing in Sept 10 and all I know is to wait for a phone interview in the 'coming months.' Does anyone know when the next course after the April one is?

Cheers.

Hey guys congrats~
Any tips on what is involved with the assessment centre thing?

More detail the better xD

cheers for the congrats guys.
I first applied early Feb 2010, heard nothing until the online testing which I completed toward the end of September. My phone interview was (i think) in November and I did the testing day on 9th Jan 2011. offer was made early feb. Exactly one year form application to the offer being made...
From what I understand, if you haven't heard anything yet, you'll still be in the running... It seems to take a while to get through the system... Don't stress too much...

Regarding the testing day, we were asked not to inform other candidates about the datails of the day in order to keep it even keel for all... however, there's nothing to stress about. All the assessors (spelling?) are very friendly and happy to have a chat... During the day at lunch and morning tea I had the opportunity to talk to the other candidates and the assessors, I recommend you do this if you get the chance you should, and more importantly, listen to what they say (lots of good advice)...

Fatty, I guess they're not, keen to meet them though...

Cheers all
Kieran

this is a pretty general question, but when they refer to verification of original test results (the online cog stuff), does that mean you have to do that all over again???

I applied November 2009, did the online testing some time around September, day of testing was 20th October and I heard that I had been successful in December, but only just got a place in a course this week. the process moves slowly, but they get there in the end :)

As for the day of testing, yeah we were asked not to share details, but about the verification of the online testing results, it's a shorter version of what you have done, they don't make you do the whole thing again :p I agree that the assessors were all friendly and supportive (but they don't give you much indication how you're going :p) and if you get the chance, have a chat to operational controllers that pass by, the ones I met were happy to have a chat and answer questions :)

Kieran, yeah hopefully they will give us a way to contact the others on the course, I'd like to see if anyone wants to share accommodation in Melbourne :P

Meeting
 

Fatty 182, a couple of the Brisbane guys are going to meet at the Hammo at 5pm on Tuesday night. I am sure you were at teh last one so please join us again. Anybody else wanting to meet on Tuesday night in Brisbane at the Hammo please feel free to come along.

Ah cool, yeah if I can get there, I will pop over :)

I think this thread may have drifted some what from phycometric testing to ASA ATC recruitment in general...
So to get back to the stated phyc testing, there are ways increase your chances of successfully getting through... You can't cheat in a phycometric but you can teach your self the cognative skills required.
The secret to getting through is here at www.lumosity.com. There are a whole lot of simple games that you do each day that are designed and proven to improve you cognative skills, including problem solving, attention, memory, speed and flexibility.
You do have to pay for the site but I used it every day and it does do what it promises...

Worth checking out

Cheers
Kieran

Kieran17

Luckily Airservices don't do a spelling test during the testing eg. Psychometric and Cognitive :E

yeah spelling aside... can't argue with that...:rolleyes:

Prime candidate for an ALM position :}

Hi everyone!

If you are looking for accommodation in Melbourne, me and my roommate have a spare room. We live in Taylors Hill, about 20mins from the academy. We are on course 37 so we could also help you a lot.

If you want to find out more, send me an email at [email protected]

Cheers, Simon