UK - NATS Pay negotiations - latest rumours

[Arty-Ziff]

Being sent home after a couple of hours? Library? ANO?! Again we must be talking about the culture gulf which exists between Swanwick and Prestwick...

I can only talk for PC, but sector's aren't bandboxed to facilitate early gos. They're bandboxed to facilitate people getting breaks. So let's not tar everyone with the same brush. An EG once every 4 cycles is just about as good as it gets for some of us at the moment...

[eastern wiseguy]

So for doing the Met...and helping to reduce the ATSA complement I will be paid 412 quid(after tax). No doubt someone in NERL will be along to tell me why this is a good deal.

[BigDaddyBoxMeal]

So we've got the offer.

Does it even need discussing any further on here? It will be a yes. NERL will vote yes. NSL have the met issue to contend with, however there are very sizeable units in NSL that this won't affect, so they'll vote yes. That leaves the affected NSL units. After the union have "encouraged proper and full debate" on the issue (for that read a joint presentation with management to tell us why the why the world will end if we don't accept), enough people will vote yes, ensuring that the NSL vote on the whole is a yes. Job done.

I note that the Engineer and ATSA sections are not recommending their deal (its worse than the ATCOs), and the imbalance between NSL/NERL.

Divide and rule - they have - they've won.

[Disillusioned]

So, is this two separate pay offers on the table? The ATCO offer and the ATSA/Engineers offer?

If the ATSAs vote No, can the ATCO offer be accepted? or vice versa. Or have both offers got to be accepted for the entire pay deal to be implemented.

I take it that during the balloting process, the "pulled" AAVA agreement will be re-instated under it's current conditions, not the re-negotiated conditions (whatever they are)? And the "all new & improved" AAVA agreement won't come into effect until after the ballot is complete, and only then if it is a yes vote?

[beaver liquor]

Mills and Reid must be laughing their **** off reading this tonight - job done, workforce divided, 4% for pcs and Prospect ATSS, and 5.2% for ATCOs.

[Shermanator]

The ballot runs until June 21st, anybody know when the annual reports are out? Day after the ballot? No union can be that wet behind the ears can it?

[BAND4ALL]

Well if it is two separate pay offers, I'll be voting No.
I am prob at one of the NSL units that does not affect the ATSAs but I find all this truly awful.
After my vote I will be opting out of the Union they can stick it.

[SensibleATCO]

Yahoo said:

have a little think about that later on then when your on your umpteenth tea break, or reading your novel whilst "assisting"

Assisting ?

You are clearly getting confused with what is a standard shift for a SS/GW approach controller at Swanwick.

[Mad As A Mad Thing]

I still think there's some way to go before this can be considered a good deal for anyone other than management.

5.2% this year which just about keeps pace with current inflation, but does nothing to rectify the last below inflation pay deal. Hang on, you want me to do the met as well for that? Bugger off.

RPI capped at 5% next year ON BASIC PAY ONLY ? Bugger off. I don't care whether RPI is or is not likely to be higher than 5%. What I do care about is this is just a way to present you with a headline figure that sounds reasonable, but which in reality on your actual take home pay will be significantly less than that. (Unless you don't qualify for any allowances.)

No mention of an increase to the AAVA rates. Hmmmm sounds suspiciously like another bugger off to come from me then.

Closing date just ahead of the publication of the annual report? Bugger off. We're not falling for that one again are we?

[Ceannairceach]

After giving this some more thought I'm even more disgusted with Prospect for even considering this. It's a disgrace to contemplate three deals.

What happened to solidarity?

And as for those of you on here who are even contemplating voting yes - you disgust me too for the same reason. Chuck a bit of money at you and you're anyone's. I guess that this is the moment that we ATCOs live up to our greedy reputation once and for all. Screw the ATSAs and Engineers as long as we get our 5% and nice big juicy £800 AAVAs.

We're not so much "working together" but working to shaft our colleagues it would seem. And helping management do it too.

[fisbangwollop]

Back to the good old days then.....Them and us....the carrot has been dangled and I am sure Prospect will accept......after all very soon the memories of ATSA's will be a thing of the past so why should they care....as for me I am disgusted at how NATS have managed to split the work force......and even more disgusted at how Prospect are happy with that.

I know PC are depending on ATSA O/T this Summer to keep the cogs turning.....time will tell!!!!!!!!

[novation]

Does anyone know exactly what the ava tie in is to this agreement?

[fisbangwollop]

Fat C.....

Our ATSAs are stretched to the limit as so many were paid off in the belief that EFD would be in service by now !

FIS spends his time at work either with a headset on doing FISO duties or taking all the at the DTS desk.

Thanks for your kind comments and support....yes it is appreciated but I still feel like I have been shafted....but guess no suprise there!!!

[Scuzi]

I see the slagging has started before most have even heard of this offer.

In isolation, I consider the ATCO offer to be very reasonable from a real world perspective, maybe not so much from a Nats fairlyland "been too long in this cushty number to know how the real world works" viewpoint. However, I don't care for the apparent management tactics that seem to be a recurring theme of late. I do wonder if the roles were reversed, if the engineers or the ATSAs would turn down this offer if the ATCOs were getting the raw end of it?

I haven't had enough time to think it over but I won't automatically shout "NO! AND SCREW YOU FOR THINKING YES" like a vocal few on here who have done and will do. I think the offer is worth some consideration.

RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE.

[fisbangwollop]

Scuzi.....maybe it is a good deal, maybe the ATSA deal is a good one to but sadly old boy that is not the point.......we all work together do we not so why should one group take a better deal than the other...simple. Can you start to imagine how the atmosphere will be at work if you guys accept and the ATSA and Tels guys get shafted???

Also wait and see how rosy our books are at the annual report despite managements constant drivel about how tough things really are!!

If you want to bend over and take it up your anus well please continue!!!

[Bagheera]

Got to love the irony of it concluding this disgusting, divisive deal on Maundy Thursday, the anniversary of the Last Supper.

"Before this night is out one of you will betray me"

30 pieces of silver anyone?

[southoftheborder]

I have been quite surprised to read some of the more recent posts on here. After months of many atcos saying how they will not accept, a little bit of money is thrown your way and all bloody morals go right out of the window. It may be a decent offer, but what about that of the ATSA'S and engineers? Why should they be rewarded with less of a payrise than atcos? Atcos cannot do their job successfully without the assistance of ATSA's and engineers. It just seems time and time again, management know exactly which buttons to press in order for the atco community to cater to their every whim, in this case it seems to be a stroking of the already over inflated atcos ego.. by offering us more they are effectively saying we are more valuable, again something i disagree with strongly. Everyone deserves a pay rise which is at least in line with inflation. i do understand peoples points on here about the real world and such.... However, we are in a very fortunate position in that we hold a job in a PROFIT MAKING company!!!!! We all work bloody hard, and it is quite frankly disgusting for separate offers to be handed out and not only that but conditions such as met provision etc be attached. I strongly urge everyone to really consider their motivations whilst voting on this, remember, by agreeing you are shafting some of your colleagues and FRIENDS!
Just bloody well vote no, let the annual report come out, and then lets see what can really be offered to EVERYONE. ONE NATS right? Lets stand together and show management that we are a force to be reckoned with, and that we cant be bought so easily, why do conditions need to be attached? Its a core pay deal only, leave it at that!
Oh just to clarify, i am an ATCO, and i am NERL, and i am down south..... just for you guys out there who have bees in your bonnet saying that all band 5 atcos in nerl will vote this through.......

[BAND4ALL]

Good post SOTB

[Rocket_Science]

Divide and Rule is here

The big surprise for me is that it took management so long to use this tactic. But for prospect to sell NTUS out for what can only be described as a lukewarm deal at best, is an even bigger surprise. Maybe if the rumours on Natsnet about 7% pay rises were true, then Prospect would have had no option but to recommend acceptance - but RPI +0.5% followed by a capped deal with strings...c'mon guys! Together we're strong, divided we are nothing! Management will love watching the three unions of the NTUS tear each other apart in gladiatorial combat!

[BOBBLEHAT]

The reason the ATCO's have a higher offer than others is because they are selling their AAVA agreement - not the ATSA's or the engineer's - why should they benefit? What if we had sold 6 days annual leave - would you like to have split that with all the other trade groups too? a few years ago we negotiated seperately for one deal which was voted through - so there is precedent for this.

For me - year 1 looks ok, year 2 should be looking the same (rpi+0.5%).......