What happens within NATS after the pension results are in??
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hants
Posts: 2,295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't get me started on the Safety and training Managers post.
That's 3/4 of £1000,000 you could save annually in one fell swoop. Considering each watch (on TC side, no doubt the same on AC) has a training manager and safety man (WOSM); thats triple replication of work.
Each watch should have a training manager - 1 for AC and one for TC, and a watch safety rep/manager (one of the GS's per watch do this), but to then have another 5 managers a few levels up (STM's) overseeing these people is ridiculous
That's 3/4 of £1000,000 you could save annually in one fell swoop. Considering each watch (on TC side, no doubt the same on AC) has a training manager and safety man (WOSM); thats triple replication of work.
Each watch should have a training manager - 1 for AC and one for TC, and a watch safety rep/manager (one of the GS's per watch do this), but to then have another 5 managers a few levels up (STM's) overseeing these people is ridiculous
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 24/7 Hardcore Heaven
Posts: 525
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Merry Xmas Everybody!!!
Totally off topic but as its Xmas Eve and I'm several mulled wines into the festive celebrations....
Just like to say a Merry Xmas to EVERYBODY,whatever you voted! I have thoroughly enjoyed the banter on here regarding the pensions issue even if it did get a tad heated at times...and the outcome was not what I wanted
Nevertheless, a bit of heated debate never hurt anybody and is what PPRUNE is all about.
So, Merry Xmas to one and all, and to you all a good night! And yes, BDiONU, that EVEN includes you mate!
Just like to say a Merry Xmas to EVERYBODY,whatever you voted! I have thoroughly enjoyed the banter on here regarding the pensions issue even if it did get a tad heated at times...and the outcome was not what I wanted
Nevertheless, a bit of heated debate never hurt anybody and is what PPRUNE is all about.
So, Merry Xmas to one and all, and to you all a good night! And yes, BDiONU, that EVEN includes you mate!
Beady Eye
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,495
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dr Barron nee Beeching
Yes I saw Ian Hislop's excellent programme the other night on Dr Beeching, and the parallels between BR in 1963, and NATS in 2008 are chilling! Don't say that you haven't been warned!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hants
Posts: 2,295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mr Barron, in his voice blog dated 22nd Dec states that he does not believe the company is divided and that morale levels have nothing to do with NATS and what is happening within, but is a symptom of what is happening around the country....
He also signs off by wishing employees a good Christmas and a good rest... obviously, he realises most of his operational units will be working every day doesn't he??...
He also signs off by wishing employees a good Christmas and a good rest... obviously, he realises most of his operational units will be working every day doesn't he??...
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 24/7 Hardcore Heaven
Posts: 525
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I saw that too...every time I read his blog it makes me want to vomit. The bloke has no idea or just doesn't care what is happening. And why should he? He is sitting pretty now having got what he wanted, all he has to do is convince the Union now that we need a pay freeze or NATS will go under...job done.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 1,122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What's happening round the country Mr B?
Nats is divided.It's called NERL and NSL.
I am having a good rest on my rostered days off and will be working on all 4 public holidays(Scotland).
I hope his Aston ends up mangled in a ditch somewhere.
Nats is divided.It's called NERL and NSL.
I am having a good rest on my rostered days off and will be working on all 4 public holidays(Scotland).
I hope his Aston ends up mangled in a ditch somewhere.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hants
Posts: 2,295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TAD
you have the division of NSL and NERL, but the division I was thinking of is the fact that different units are at each others throats.
What with banding, (unfounded) rumours of Swanwick voting 'yes' en masse etc, I think that the company is very divided and that these and other issues have also smashed morale. There is a level of mistrust and resentment between ATCO grades at different units which has played right into managements hands.
055166K
I think you might be being misled there. If you are alluding to a certain LAC ATCO recently promoted to GS(TC) then I think you will find that said ATCO will not be keeping his AC validation and will have to validate on a TC sector (doesn't have to be a core sector mind you, could be East or another noddy non-core sector).
This is in spite of any loud noises being made by a certain WS who not long ago arrived from windy Wales. As the saying goes, empty barrels make the most noise and this WS doesn't really have a clue, nor any management ability - but if the face fits... promote it. It's still an old boys club to a large extent.
To be fair to the promoted ATCO in question, he is keen to validate on a TC sector. It will mean giving up his AC validation however.
you have the division of NSL and NERL, but the division I was thinking of is the fact that different units are at each others throats.
What with banding, (unfounded) rumours of Swanwick voting 'yes' en masse etc, I think that the company is very divided and that these and other issues have also smashed morale. There is a level of mistrust and resentment between ATCO grades at different units which has played right into managements hands.
055166K
cross training for AC and TC simultaneous validation has already started
This is in spite of any loud noises being made by a certain WS who not long ago arrived from windy Wales. As the saying goes, empty barrels make the most noise and this WS doesn't really have a clue, nor any management ability - but if the face fits... promote it. It's still an old boys club to a large extent.
To be fair to the promoted ATCO in question, he is keen to validate on a TC sector. It will mean giving up his AC validation however.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Southampton
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To add to anotherthings point, SRG have banned mixed mode operations, ie. you cannot be valid on swanwick ac electronic system and tc's manual system at the same time.
If iFACTs ever appears then those people who are valid on it to start CAN ONLY hold that validation, not even another AC validation.
If iFACTs ever appears then those people who are valid on it to start CAN ONLY hold that validation, not even another AC validation.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 1,122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anotherthing,
Well being out in the Ort cloud of the Nats empire,we don't really see what the Band 5s are up to.
To go back to B's blog.There is very little evidence of a credit crunch here,probably the opposite,yet unit moral isn't good.
The pension reforms wasn't really an issue here,because no matter what we think,it doesn't count.If the centres vote for changes,then it doesn't matter what we vote.
Banding.Screwed again after the last comittee came away with their finding.Don't visit the unit,disregard formula and scores that would cause anything but the status quo.Working together.
Meanwhile we are just as busy as units on higher pay,with no way of getting anything better.Still at the bottom.
If people start looking at jobs elsewhere,then good for them.Nats have lost their staff loyality.At our units leaving is the only option left,because it won't get better staying.
Never mind Mr B can give the eco gas guzzler a good run up to the Kyper belt,and give us a moral boosting pep talk.You've never had it so good.
Well being out in the Ort cloud of the Nats empire,we don't really see what the Band 5s are up to.
To go back to B's blog.There is very little evidence of a credit crunch here,probably the opposite,yet unit moral isn't good.
The pension reforms wasn't really an issue here,because no matter what we think,it doesn't count.If the centres vote for changes,then it doesn't matter what we vote.
Banding.Screwed again after the last comittee came away with their finding.Don't visit the unit,disregard formula and scores that would cause anything but the status quo.Working together.
Meanwhile we are just as busy as units on higher pay,with no way of getting anything better.Still at the bottom.If people start looking at jobs elsewhere,then good for them.Nats have lost their staff loyality.At our units leaving is the only option left,because it won't get better staying.
Never mind Mr B can give the eco gas guzzler a good run up to the Kyper belt,and give us a moral boosting pep talk.You've never had it so good.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 24/7 Hardcore Heaven
Posts: 525
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just to be clear about the pay talks. I would gladly accept a pay freeze if it was implemented company wide. By that, I mean that EVERYBODY regardless of pay grade, contract or anything else takes it. To elaborate further still, when Barron accepts a pay freeze, then I will accept one.
If anybody thinks it is acceptable for him and the board to push for a pay freeze for us whilst they get another obscene, double figure % pay rise, then I would suggest that they either need their head testing, or are indeed management themsleves. No doubt somebody will now point out to me the error of my ways.....
If anybody thinks it is acceptable for him and the board to push for a pay freeze for us whilst they get another obscene, double figure % pay rise, then I would suggest that they either need their head testing, or are indeed management themsleves. No doubt somebody will now point out to me the error of my ways.....
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: South
Age: 64
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Management should be setting an example.
If the company is in financial trouble then how can any bonus be justified?
No one should be upgrading to a Lamborghini this year!
If the company is in financial trouble then how can any bonus be justified?
No one should be upgrading to a Lamborghini this year!
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 24/7 Hardcore Heaven
Posts: 525
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not often I agree with you eglnyt, but in this case, well said. I really do think that the majority of NATS employees would accept a pay freeze (ok, perhaps NOT gladly) if they knew that Management were getting the same...but I just do not see this happening.
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: LACC - the Premier Centre
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't think the majority would accept a pay freeze whether execs got one or not. Ordinarily we would have been negotiating the pay rise towards the end of last summer/early autumn, we couldn't because of the pension proposal taking precedence. If we had been negotiating last summer/autumn we would have got around 4.5% or more based on RPI figures at the time, August is normally used and the RPI was 4.8%. Management now has the benefit of the economy being in a worse position now than last summer to try to "manage the union expectations", which they seem quite good at, and get away with a lower rise now than they would of agreed to then.
Don't let the delaying of the pay talks by the pension proposal become a double edged sword and let it reduce the pay rise we would of received.
Don't let the delaying of the pay talks by the pension proposal become a double edged sword and let it reduce the pay rise we would of received.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In a weird way pay cut anything less than RPI, pay freeze RPI (purely maintains standard of living and keeps salary in a static position relative to the economy) pay rise RPI plus. Pay freeze all depends on how you look at it. Obviously management would love to have no increase in the salary bill. After the pension issue I would hope goodwill would be forthcoming from management, but I doubt it.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The land that taste forgot
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'd love to take a pay freeze to help poor nats out,
I'm sure that my utility providers would ensure that my bills do not rise during this period, perhaps the government could recognise my efforts to help nats by keeping petrol duty at the same level, and having a word with Shell to make sure their prices do not rise would be nice!.
No increase in fags or booze would also be much apreciated.and i'm sure Tesco's would do their bit to help.
After all poor old nats needs every penny it can get to make a LARGER PROFIT next year and pay its directors BIGGER BONUSES.
Who am i to be selfish and expect the FatCats to recieve a smaller bonus when i can pay for it at my and my families expense, my kids can make do with last years school shoes and uniforms, and we dont need a holiday and the wife can always pick up a few quid down the docks when a ships in!
At least then when i'm selling a kidney on ebay to top up my pension, i know i've done my bit for the company, and can sleep soundly at night!!
I'm sure that my utility providers would ensure that my bills do not rise during this period, perhaps the government could recognise my efforts to help nats by keeping petrol duty at the same level, and having a word with Shell to make sure their prices do not rise would be nice!.
No increase in fags or booze would also be much apreciated.and i'm sure Tesco's would do their bit to help.
After all poor old nats needs every penny it can get to make a LARGER PROFIT next year and pay its directors BIGGER BONUSES.
Who am i to be selfish and expect the FatCats to recieve a smaller bonus when i can pay for it at my and my families expense, my kids can make do with last years school shoes and uniforms, and we dont need a holiday and the wife can always pick up a few quid down the docks when a ships in!
At least then when i'm selling a kidney on ebay to top up my pension, i know i've done my bit for the company, and can sleep soundly at night!!
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: 29 Acacia Road
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
While the atcos, atsa's engineers and other office staff have been maintaining and exceceding targets all year, the overall traffic levels have fallen. This must therefore be the fault of top level management, and as a direct consequence, they should be expecting a negative bonus this year!!!