Manchester Lockdown?
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Manchester Lockdown?
Two points really;
1. Although MACC AREA guys knows it's hard to get out of the centre unless on promotion, something else seems to be happening. If they apply for a position to escape the move and pass an assessment, we suspect that, because the new unit cannot be given a release date, then the successful applicant is being told he/she is actually being told they have been unsuccessful. If this is true then NATS is reneging on their promise to give every assistance to people not wanting to go to NPC. Strange that!
2. Trawl for Swanick guys to MACC - we'd be amazed if anyone took this up - why?
- BAND 4 - £15k/yr pay cut.
- AAVA - less per day
- CENTRE - no gym/ sports hall!
- LOCATION - nice loooooooong walk from car park to work.
- STAFFING - always short.
- LEAVE - always a tight one.
- EQUIPMENT - Outdated.
- PROSPECTS - NPC.
- Like i say - we'd be amazed. We're mostly all digging as many tunnels as we can but as that means we'll be lost to the company - taking our experience & ability with us. What are NATS doing about it? Trawling Swanick!!
Wonder if the European ANSP's kow if they can fill their staff shortages with experienced NATS MACC guys relatively quickly?
- We accept the move is coming but NATS must accept that by forcing this move on us - most guys would rather go somewhere they would want to be - ME, CANADA, EUROPE (?) than somewhere they wouldn't and i would respectfully suggest that trawling Swanick guys is both not the answer and an insult to their intelligence.
1. Although MACC AREA guys knows it's hard to get out of the centre unless on promotion, something else seems to be happening. If they apply for a position to escape the move and pass an assessment, we suspect that, because the new unit cannot be given a release date, then the successful applicant is being told he/she is actually being told they have been unsuccessful. If this is true then NATS is reneging on their promise to give every assistance to people not wanting to go to NPC. Strange that!
2. Trawl for Swanick guys to MACC - we'd be amazed if anyone took this up - why?
- BAND 4 - £15k/yr pay cut.
- AAVA - less per day
- CENTRE - no gym/ sports hall!
- LOCATION - nice loooooooong walk from car park to work.
- STAFFING - always short.
- LEAVE - always a tight one.
- EQUIPMENT - Outdated.
- PROSPECTS - NPC.
- Like i say - we'd be amazed. We're mostly all digging as many tunnels as we can but as that means we'll be lost to the company - taking our experience & ability with us. What are NATS doing about it? Trawling Swanick!!
Wonder if the European ANSP's kow if they can fill their staff shortages with experienced NATS MACC guys relatively quickly?
- We accept the move is coming but NATS must accept that by forcing this move on us - most guys would rather go somewhere they would want to be - ME, CANADA, EUROPE (?) than somewhere they wouldn't and i would respectfully suggest that trawling Swanick guys is both not the answer and an insult to their intelligence.
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You have my sympathy if point 1 is happening.
With regard to the rest, I was at the college ten years ago and would have loved to get a posting to MACC at whatever the cost - at the end of the day we are and always will be a mobile grade.
I took my posting to LATCC as an extra chance to validate, if I failed hopefully I would have been posted to MACC. Now that you are moving to NPC I think I am glad I am where I am, but at the end of the day I have missed out on all my friends and family for 10 years not being round the corner as they would have been - I grew up in Heald Green.
You have had 10 years living in a fantastic area of the world and now need to move on to what I am sure will be as good a location as SwanWick. Banging on constantly about not wanting to go will hardly endear you to your new colleagues.
MOBILE GRADE - it will have been in the original job description!!
- BAND 4 - £15k/yr pay cut. - DUE TO BE ADDRESSED AFTER UNION MOTION
- AAVA - less per day - DON'T DO THEM IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT
- CENTRE - no gym/ sports hall! - HAVE YOU EATEN IN OUR CANTEEN?
- LOCATION - nice loooooooong walk from car park to work. - HOUSE PRICES?
- STAFFING - always short. - DITTO
- LEAVE - always a tight one. - YOU THINK WE CAN HAVE WHAT WE WANT?
- EQUIPMENT - Outdated. - THANK YOURSELF LUCKY YOU AVOID iFACTS
- PROSPECTS - NPC - WHAT'S SO BAD ABOUT THAT?
With regard to the rest, I was at the college ten years ago and would have loved to get a posting to MACC at whatever the cost - at the end of the day we are and always will be a mobile grade.
I took my posting to LATCC as an extra chance to validate, if I failed hopefully I would have been posted to MACC. Now that you are moving to NPC I think I am glad I am where I am, but at the end of the day I have missed out on all my friends and family for 10 years not being round the corner as they would have been - I grew up in Heald Green.
You have had 10 years living in a fantastic area of the world and now need to move on to what I am sure will be as good a location as SwanWick. Banging on constantly about not wanting to go will hardly endear you to your new colleagues.
MOBILE GRADE - it will have been in the original job description!!
- BAND 4 - £15k/yr pay cut. - DUE TO BE ADDRESSED AFTER UNION MOTION
- AAVA - less per day - DON'T DO THEM IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT
- CENTRE - no gym/ sports hall! - HAVE YOU EATEN IN OUR CANTEEN?
- LOCATION - nice loooooooong walk from car park to work. - HOUSE PRICES?
- STAFFING - always short. - DITTO
- LEAVE - always a tight one. - YOU THINK WE CAN HAVE WHAT WE WANT?
- EQUIPMENT - Outdated. - THANK YOURSELF LUCKY YOU AVOID iFACTS
- PROSPECTS - NPC - WHAT'S SO BAD ABOUT THAT?
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Mahaba,
And the evidence of the 1st claim is?????? Is it not the case that 4 people at MACC have just been given dates to move to Swanwick to take up promotions?
Like it or not NATS has a business to run and the release of staff has to be when they can realistically be allowed to go without having a massive affect on that business-tough I know but part of the new world in which we operate.
Once again you start a thread just like on January 11th suggesting that you are being treated differently and unfairly compared to everyone else.
2. Trawl for Swanick guys to MACC - we'd be amazed if anyone took this up - why?
- BAND 4 - £15k/yr pay cut.- Voted in by a very large majority of staff
- AAVA - less per day-don't do 'em if you don't like the rate
- CENTRE - no gym/ sports hall!-really an issue at a place of work?
- LOCATION - nice loooooooong walk from car park to work.-you won't want to do it more than you have to then,give the AAVAs a miss. Resolved at NPC
- STAFFING - always short. And we aren't????
- LEAVE - always a tight one. I would suggest the new regime at LACC is the tightest at any unit now
- EQUIPMENT - Outdated. Resolved at NPC
- PROSPECTS - NPC. Sorts out the car park and equipment issue
The grass isn't always greener on the other side. I have every sympathy with you folks having to move against your will but NATS seem to be recognising the problems,albeit at this late stage and at least trying something different. I'm assuming that you would take a move south if someone expressed interest in moving to MACC and then on to Prestwick despite it being such a ridiculous idea?
I'm sure there are places in Europe that could be filled by MACC guys but they are relatively rare unless you have the ability to speak the local language for internal co-ordinations. I believe the Spanish require level 6 proficiency for example.
And the evidence of the 1st claim is?????? Is it not the case that 4 people at MACC have just been given dates to move to Swanwick to take up promotions?
Like it or not NATS has a business to run and the release of staff has to be when they can realistically be allowed to go without having a massive affect on that business-tough I know but part of the new world in which we operate.
Once again you start a thread just like on January 11th suggesting that you are being treated differently and unfairly compared to everyone else.
2. Trawl for Swanick guys to MACC - we'd be amazed if anyone took this up - why?
- BAND 4 - £15k/yr pay cut.- Voted in by a very large majority of staff
- AAVA - less per day-don't do 'em if you don't like the rate
- CENTRE - no gym/ sports hall!-really an issue at a place of work?
- LOCATION - nice loooooooong walk from car park to work.-you won't want to do it more than you have to then,give the AAVAs a miss. Resolved at NPC
- STAFFING - always short. And we aren't????
- LEAVE - always a tight one. I would suggest the new regime at LACC is the tightest at any unit now
- EQUIPMENT - Outdated. Resolved at NPC
- PROSPECTS - NPC. Sorts out the car park and equipment issue
The grass isn't always greener on the other side. I have every sympathy with you folks having to move against your will but NATS seem to be recognising the problems,albeit at this late stage and at least trying something different. I'm assuming that you would take a move south if someone expressed interest in moving to MACC and then on to Prestwick despite it being such a ridiculous idea?
I'm sure there are places in Europe that could be filled by MACC guys but they are relatively rare unless you have the ability to speak the local language for internal co-ordinations. I believe the Spanish require level 6 proficiency for example.
Last edited by 250 kts; 28th May 2008 at 20:53.
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its harsh if point 1 is happening.
But as for the rest,
our leave is rubbish,
i would like more for an aava,
i want band 9,
if im at work before 12 i cant park on the road, which means at least another 22-24 secs to the front door.
our canteen sucks balls.
But as for the rest,
our leave is rubbish,
i would like more for an aava,
i want band 9,
if im at work before 12 i cant park on the road, which means at least another 22-24 secs to the front door.
our canteen sucks balls.
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250,
- BAND 4 - £15k/yr pay cut.- Voted in by a very large majority of staff
Who were the "large majority of staff"????? The guys that get it?
Anyone who didnt get it want it???
- BAND 4 - £15k/yr pay cut.- Voted in by a very large majority of staff
Who were the "large majority of staff"????? The guys that get it?
Anyone who didnt get it want it???
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It's called democracy. If I remember rightly it was around an 80% turnout with a 68% in favour. I'm sure I'll be corrected if these figures are wildly inaccurate.
I don't for one minute believe that all of the present Band 5 ATCOs voted for it-indeed I didn't, just as I don't believe all of the other band ATCOs voted against what has been around a 35% rise in basic over 6 years.
I don't for one minute believe that all of the present Band 5 ATCOs voted for it-indeed I didn't, just as I don't believe all of the other band ATCOs voted against what has been around a 35% rise in basic over 6 years.
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Very good question Gonzo - beat me to it...
Didn't notice that our Unions had negotiated pay cuts for us in the recent past - must be missing something... not.
If he/she runs true to form, Mahaba will disappear for several months again, before coming back with another whinge that when refuted, he/she runs from
Didn't notice that our Unions had negotiated pay cuts for us in the recent past - must be missing something... not.
If he/she runs true to form, Mahaba will disappear for several months again, before coming back with another whinge that when refuted, he/she runs from
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Now I'm not one to defend Mahaba, but....
If you read it carefully the pay cut would be for someone moving from Band 5 to 4.
Ok defence over:
However in true Mahaba fashion I guess this is absolutely the worst case scenario and would not actually be the case for someone, say, 5 points up the scale. Unfortunately I don't have the scales to hand.
I suspect there will actually be plenty of people at Swanwick who, for whatever reason, will be happy to take a move north.
Mahaba can we please have the evidence of people being over looked for promotion as you allege is the case or once again are you a "one post pony"?
If you read it carefully the pay cut would be for someone moving from Band 5 to 4.
Ok defence over:
However in true Mahaba fashion I guess this is absolutely the worst case scenario and would not actually be the case for someone, say, 5 points up the scale. Unfortunately I don't have the scales to hand.I suspect there will actually be plenty of people at Swanwick who, for whatever reason, will be happy to take a move north.
Mahaba can we please have the evidence of people being over looked for promotion as you allege is the case or once again are you a "one post pony"?
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1. I don't know if this is true or not. I would hope it isn't, but the obvious necessity to have a reasonable compliment of staff at nPC is glaring at the moment. We've been told MACC moving in 2010 is inevitable whatever the number.
2.
-It's about a £9.5k/yr pay difference (The way it has been justified for Area units upsets us, not the right of Band 5 guys to be paid that much, although they were the majority). I don't know how the differences for airfields are justified (fairly or not) but the gap below us shouldn't be that much either.
-AAVA 10% difference (again how do you justify it?), although at £500 they can be hard for some to turn down on principle.
-No gym/sports hall at NPC either. Mr Barron told us after 9/11 it was a cost saving necessary to help get the new building back on track; although it seems allowances were made for the CTC.
-Parking, correct, resolved at nPC; still a pain now though.
-Staffing, yes everyone is short. In percentage terms for ACCs (due to our size) we are shortest but many of our staff hold validations on the opposite bank to their main one, hence we usually cope. Again I'm just stating facts here and I know ATCOs at the other Centres hold more than the minimum requirement. It would be intersting for a transparent comparison of average time plugged in and out per shift.
-Leave, probably all in the same boat across NERL here.
-Equipment, not resolved at nPC for several years after O date. Possibly no benefits at all, moving traffic wise. I don't know much about iFACTS but MODE S (which we now have) is a welcome improvement.
-Prospects, hoping to make lots of new friends with the ScOACC guys. I know I'll lose (on a day to day basis) many good friends who won't be going (not to mention the EGCC guys).
Whinge or not, we have a genuine gripe with pay that is often belittled on this forum. It can't be justified but it seems those above us think we shouldn't get it and those at airports below us resent us mentioning it, somewhat understandably. Yes we got a pay rise. It is the principle and the stigma of the difference that is galling.
A forced move from Swanwick to Prestwick (via Manchester) would upset many people down South. It is not or should not be an impossibility. You already know you're a mobile grade. I'm sure for the unlucky ones they'll quickly understand our point of view.
It would be a disgrace though when you've already moved from London to Southampton.
2.
-It's about a £9.5k/yr pay difference (The way it has been justified for Area units upsets us, not the right of Band 5 guys to be paid that much, although they were the majority). I don't know how the differences for airfields are justified (fairly or not) but the gap below us shouldn't be that much either.
-AAVA 10% difference (again how do you justify it?), although at £500 they can be hard for some to turn down on principle.
-No gym/sports hall at NPC either. Mr Barron told us after 9/11 it was a cost saving necessary to help get the new building back on track; although it seems allowances were made for the CTC.
-Parking, correct, resolved at nPC; still a pain now though.
-Staffing, yes everyone is short. In percentage terms for ACCs (due to our size) we are shortest but many of our staff hold validations on the opposite bank to their main one, hence we usually cope. Again I'm just stating facts here and I know ATCOs at the other Centres hold more than the minimum requirement. It would be intersting for a transparent comparison of average time plugged in and out per shift.
-Leave, probably all in the same boat across NERL here.
-Equipment, not resolved at nPC for several years after O date. Possibly no benefits at all, moving traffic wise. I don't know much about iFACTS but MODE S (which we now have) is a welcome improvement.
-Prospects, hoping to make lots of new friends with the ScOACC guys. I know I'll lose (on a day to day basis) many good friends who won't be going (not to mention the EGCC guys).
Whinge or not, we have a genuine gripe with pay that is often belittled on this forum. It can't be justified but it seems those above us think we shouldn't get it and those at airports below us resent us mentioning it, somewhat understandably. Yes we got a pay rise. It is the principle and the stigma of the difference that is galling.
A forced move from Swanwick to Prestwick (via Manchester) would upset many people down South. It is not or should not be an impossibility. You already know you're a mobile grade. I'm sure for the unlucky ones they'll quickly understand our point of view.
It would be a disgrace though when you've already moved from London to Southampton.
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9th,
Good post.
But let's not get hooked up on the banding which has been done to death on here.
Mahaba is suggesting that staff are not being treated fairly when going for promotion-evidence please.
Plus a whole load of other issues which he thinks are peculiar to MACC-which are not.
I'm sure we all await his reply with baited breath. And I'm probably not alone in thinking that he does the MACC cause absolutely no good at all. If he can't even be a+sed to get the salaries right then what else is cr*p?? More sensible posts from the MACC jury please.
Good post.
But let's not get hooked up on the banding which has been done to death on here.
Mahaba is suggesting that staff are not being treated fairly when going for promotion-evidence please.
Plus a whole load of other issues which he thinks are peculiar to MACC-which are not.
I'm sure we all await his reply with baited breath. And I'm probably not alone in thinking that he does the MACC cause absolutely no good at all. If he can't even be a+sed to get the salaries right then what else is cr*p?? More sensible posts from the MACC jury please.
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9th Dan
I'm with 250Kts on this. Mahaba crawls out of his/her/its' hole every so often, lobs in a grenade, then retreats with no more sign of him/it.
The last time it was a completely wrong statement that people, understandably, took issue with.
This time there is a statement about promotion - how true it is I do not know, but already it has been stated that some MACC people have recently been promoted and moved as a result.
If there is an overall trend of sitting on promotions at MACC because of manpower, then it is outrageous and the union should be involved right away.
However as stated, other differences or issues aside, Mahaba does MACC absolutely no favours with its comments. I'm beginning to think I might work alongside Mahaba at Swanwick in TC, the amount of misinformation it seems to be spreading!!
I'm with 250Kts on this. Mahaba crawls out of his/her/its' hole every so often, lobs in a grenade, then retreats with no more sign of him/it.
The last time it was a completely wrong statement that people, understandably, took issue with.
This time there is a statement about promotion - how true it is I do not know, but already it has been stated that some MACC people have recently been promoted and moved as a result.
If there is an overall trend of sitting on promotions at MACC because of manpower, then it is outrageous and the union should be involved right away.
However as stated, other differences or issues aside, Mahaba does MACC absolutely no favours with its comments. I'm beginning to think I might work alongside Mahaba at Swanwick in TC, the amount of misinformation it seems to be spreading!!
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A friend in the industry has made it known that Manchester controllers have been invited to clean up litter in Prestwick on their days off. Will the income they receive from this help to redress the pay differential with their colleagues at Swanwick?
