Manchester Lockdown?
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hants
Posts: 2,295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Correct, there is a NATS forum wear(sic) this would probably be better placed as anyone outside NATS will not have anything useful to contribute to the thread.
However Mahaba, the thread starter, likes to air dirty laundry in public - and quite often when doing so throws out false information like confetti
However Mahaba, the thread starter, likes to air dirty laundry in public - and quite often when doing so throws out false information like confetti
Guest
Posts: n/a
2. Trawl for Swanick guys to MACC - we'd be amazed if anyone took this up - why?
- BAND 4 - £15k/yr pay cut.... and about £50k less for a house
- AAVA - less per day... not been offered one in 6 months
- CENTRE - no gym/ sports hall!..... ah bless.
- LOCATION - nice loooooooong walk from car park to work..... then run, its quicker and no need for a gym.
- STAFFING - always short.... as is every unit
- LEAVE - always a tight one.... as is every unit and we are currently only allowed 6 days each between october and feb.
- EQUIPMENT - Outdated.... you should try VCCS
- PROSPECTS - NPC.... welcome to the wankpit.
quit yer moaning. we are a mobile grade, we all had to move last year to southampton at which most would have liked to stay where they were, friends, family etc... but get on with it you big girl. if you dont like it, leave.... no, thought not.
i can never decide if im amused or bored by MACC bringing up how hard done by and how hard they work and should be band 5... youre not and you dont. the only way you will get band 5 is if LATCC gets a juicy band 6.
- BAND 4 - £15k/yr pay cut.... and about £50k less for a house
- AAVA - less per day... not been offered one in 6 months
- CENTRE - no gym/ sports hall!..... ah bless.
- LOCATION - nice loooooooong walk from car park to work..... then run, its quicker and no need for a gym.
- STAFFING - always short.... as is every unit
- LEAVE - always a tight one.... as is every unit and we are currently only allowed 6 days each between october and feb.
- EQUIPMENT - Outdated.... you should try VCCS
- PROSPECTS - NPC.... welcome to the wankpit.
quit yer moaning. we are a mobile grade, we all had to move last year to southampton at which most would have liked to stay where they were, friends, family etc... but get on with it you big girl. if you dont like it, leave.... no, thought not.
i can never decide if im amused or bored by MACC bringing up how hard done by and how hard they work and should be band 5... youre not and you dont. the only way you will get band 5 is if LATCC gets a juicy band 6.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
wizad
I hope this post is intended to elicit a reaction and not a demonstration of your ability to construct sentences.
Your empathy for others and the respect for your peers at other units is severely lacking. Please, humour me (don't worry about boring me - I work at a quiet sub-centre) by attempting to prove you are not ignorant by justifying your 'juicy' pay differential. Try and use capital letters at the start of the sentence and maybe include some fact based evidence why you believe what you believe.
Thanks also, as just when I'd started to feel embarrassed at some of the posts from my MACC colleagues, you arrived to let your side down too.
I hope this post is intended to elicit a reaction and not a demonstration of your ability to construct sentences.
Your empathy for others and the respect for your peers at other units is severely lacking. Please, humour me (don't worry about boring me - I work at a quiet sub-centre) by attempting to prove you are not ignorant by justifying your 'juicy' pay differential. Try and use capital letters at the start of the sentence and maybe include some fact based evidence why you believe what you believe.
Thanks also, as just when I'd started to feel embarrassed at some of the posts from my MACC colleagues, you arrived to let your side down too.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The foot of Mt. Belzoni.
Posts: 2,001
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good post 9th Dan.
I thought GCSE English Language was a minimum requirement for ATC. Obviously 'wizad' is not a controller or assistant as he/she has demonstrated total incompetence in this department.
I thought GCSE English Language was a minimum requirement for ATC. Obviously 'wizad' is not a controller or assistant as he/she has demonstrated total incompetence in this department.
Last edited by ZOOKER; 3rd Jun 2008 at 21:52.
Guest
Posts: n/a
blah blah blah... this is a forum and not a GCSE english competition.
why is it when you dont like what someone has posted and cant think of any decent warranted reaction you decide to hit those who couldnt give a monkeys about that crap on a forum where it hurts.... spelling, grammar and punctuation.... ooooh how it hurts
when some moron starts a thread on here moaning about all that crap with regards to moving what reaction do you expect from others who have already had to move?
the MACC move up north is hardly new information, what is it, 6 years youve known? 2 words: 'mobile' and 'grade'.
i can understand its not easy, but to fight it all the way isnt going to win any popularity contests, not least with the guys at scottish who im sure enjoy where they work and live.
and as for banding, i would happily take band 4 pay for what you could buy a house up there for. if you want to come to LATCC and get spanked all day for an extra couple of grand a year (as thats what it is unless your stomping the top of the payscale) then go for it. but i know plenty of people who failed here, moved up north, and got a bigger house on a trainees salary.
and if you are going to shoot me down, you might as well include the handful of others replying whove stated similar.
now all you english teachers get your red markers out
why is it when you dont like what someone has posted and cant think of any decent warranted reaction you decide to hit those who couldnt give a monkeys about that crap on a forum where it hurts.... spelling, grammar and punctuation.... ooooh how it hurts
when some moron starts a thread on here moaning about all that crap with regards to moving what reaction do you expect from others who have already had to move?
the MACC move up north is hardly new information, what is it, 6 years youve known? 2 words: 'mobile' and 'grade'.
i can understand its not easy, but to fight it all the way isnt going to win any popularity contests, not least with the guys at scottish who im sure enjoy where they work and live.
and as for banding, i would happily take band 4 pay for what you could buy a house up there for. if you want to come to LATCC and get spanked all day for an extra couple of grand a year (as thats what it is unless your stomping the top of the payscale) then go for it. but i know plenty of people who failed here, moved up north, and got a bigger house on a trainees salary.
and if you are going to shoot me down, you might as well include the handful of others replying whove stated similar.
now all you english teachers get your red markers out
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The foot of Mt. Belzoni.
Posts: 2,001
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
wizad,
Tell us, does the "all day spanking" take place in the gym/sports hall?
I believe there may be people out there who would pay handsomely for this service.
Tell us, does the "all day spanking" take place in the gym/sports hall?
I believe there may be people out there who would pay handsomely for this service.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
wizad
I would imagine you are a poor listener in person as you appear not to have read much of what I have posted recently on this forum.
All I asked was you to answer my specific question about banding. Stating you are 'spanked all day' doesn't cut it. I'm just looking for some reasoned debate.
Have you ever visited MACC to compare what we do? Are LTC and LAC equal in your mind? Are the LTMA Approach sectors equal in your mind? On a unit basis is your quietest sector busier than our busiest? What does busy mean?
Are your views based on hearsay or the culture at Swanwick that blindly assumes we are a backwater? I don't mind how you spell on here really, but it demonstrates to me that you do not seem willing to take your time and really think about what you want to say or how it'll be perceived.
As previously stated, I am aware we are a mobile grade and I'm also resigned to moving North. I have never trained at another unit either. I have never felt that the move from London to Southampton was easy for everyone. I would imagine for many staff and their families it may still be difficult.
Surely you can have some empathy for the problems some of us will face?
What annoys me is what appears (prove me wrong) to be an ignorant individual who clearly has a dislike for MACC controllers.
However, reading your rant it seems you perceive cost of living to justify the differential in pay maybe. I hope the next pay round is based along those lines, as basing it on traffic (without adequately accounting for staff) will continue the divisive and unjust mess we are in now. And continue to misinform and wrongly validate your prejudices.
Maybe banding has been done to death and it bores people but this vitriol directed at us for feeling hard done by without providing any intelligent comments is sickening.
Am I wrong? Is wizad representative of Swanwick ATCOs?
I would imagine you are a poor listener in person as you appear not to have read much of what I have posted recently on this forum.
All I asked was you to answer my specific question about banding. Stating you are 'spanked all day' doesn't cut it. I'm just looking for some reasoned debate.
Have you ever visited MACC to compare what we do? Are LTC and LAC equal in your mind? Are the LTMA Approach sectors equal in your mind? On a unit basis is your quietest sector busier than our busiest? What does busy mean?
Are your views based on hearsay or the culture at Swanwick that blindly assumes we are a backwater? I don't mind how you spell on here really, but it demonstrates to me that you do not seem willing to take your time and really think about what you want to say or how it'll be perceived.
As previously stated, I am aware we are a mobile grade and I'm also resigned to moving North. I have never trained at another unit either. I have never felt that the move from London to Southampton was easy for everyone. I would imagine for many staff and their families it may still be difficult.
Surely you can have some empathy for the problems some of us will face?
What annoys me is what appears (prove me wrong) to be an ignorant individual who clearly has a dislike for MACC controllers.
However, reading your rant it seems you perceive cost of living to justify the differential in pay maybe. I hope the next pay round is based along those lines, as basing it on traffic (without adequately accounting for staff) will continue the divisive and unjust mess we are in now. And continue to misinform and wrongly validate your prejudices.
Maybe banding has been done to death and it bores people but this vitriol directed at us for feeling hard done by without providing any intelligent comments is sickening.
Am I wrong? Is wizad representative of Swanwick ATCOs?
Guest
Posts: n/a
1)im not a bad listener.
2)yes i have been to MACC, and Scottish... i have friends at both. some failed here and are now valid and some transfered at their request.
3)we are all busy at some times, im not arguing that.
4)i spent, as im sure many years at college and uni where spelling etc had to be spot on so on forums like this i dont care for it much.
5)as stated, we moved last year and can understand and empathize with those who are yet to do it... but constantly moaning about it on here wont help others' views. the same as banding and your move taking over things like trm (that i have been to). if you look from our point of view, anytime we have courses like that or do a unit famil, anyone whos not band 5 seems to feel the need to moan their arses off at us. i know its an issue, but its bloody boring.
6)i have no dislike for MACC controllers, i dislike any groups of individuals who constantly moan about the same thing. all to often all we hear is either the banding issue, which i may point out i didnt bring up on this thread or relocation to scotland... it gets a bit boring and starting a thread of how hard done by we are again wont help. but its a forum so in reality it doesnt matter and if its a mere means of venting frustration then so be it.
7)i do not percieve the cost of living to be the factor in pay. if i, and many in our ops room could run things, sectors such as luton, thames, essex etc shouldnt get band 5 pay... and to be honest if you guys were in our ops room you WOULD be getting band 5.
management dont have the balls to sort out the banding in the ops room so we all get paid the same... thats the joke. let alone any other like issue across nerl.
W
2)yes i have been to MACC, and Scottish... i have friends at both. some failed here and are now valid and some transfered at their request.
3)we are all busy at some times, im not arguing that.
4)i spent, as im sure many years at college and uni where spelling etc had to be spot on so on forums like this i dont care for it much.
5)as stated, we moved last year and can understand and empathize with those who are yet to do it... but constantly moaning about it on here wont help others' views. the same as banding and your move taking over things like trm (that i have been to). if you look from our point of view, anytime we have courses like that or do a unit famil, anyone whos not band 5 seems to feel the need to moan their arses off at us. i know its an issue, but its bloody boring.
6)i have no dislike for MACC controllers, i dislike any groups of individuals who constantly moan about the same thing. all to often all we hear is either the banding issue, which i may point out i didnt bring up on this thread or relocation to scotland... it gets a bit boring and starting a thread of how hard done by we are again wont help. but its a forum so in reality it doesnt matter and if its a mere means of venting frustration then so be it.
7)i do not percieve the cost of living to be the factor in pay. if i, and many in our ops room could run things, sectors such as luton, thames, essex etc shouldnt get band 5 pay... and to be honest if you guys were in our ops room you WOULD be getting band 5.
management dont have the balls to sort out the banding in the ops room so we all get paid the same... thats the joke. let alone any other like issue across nerl.
W
Last edited by wizad; 4th Jun 2008 at 01:10.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hants
Posts: 2,295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have to endorse point 7 of Wizads post - if MACC was at Swanwick, you would get Band5 pay. Whether it was justified is another matter... there are validations in Swanwick which do not compare to some of the other Band5 validations.
They are mainly approach validations, as the quieter area validations tend to be a second, unpaid for and as far as Minimum Unit Requirement is concerned, unrequired validations.
We do have some people who do one non-core sector - often because that was the only training seat available at the time and they are waiting to train on a core sector as a second validation, though sometimes because that is all that the person is capable of. Is that right - of course it's not. Is it right that those people without Minimum Unit Requirements should be OJTIs? Of course it isn't if its down to ability. Unfortunately due to weak management, it does happen.
I know that the quietest sector at Swanwick will be way quieter than the busy ones at Manchester or Scottish, but banding is based on core validations (or was supposed to be).
As for general traffic levels and complexity, I'm afraid that friends I know who have been valid at Swanwick and West Drayton who have since transferred at their request have all said that the overall mix of complexity and traffic levels is less at their new unit. Not one has said otherwise.
It's not a willy waving contest, if you search all my posts you will see I agree that the way banding has been worked out is wrong, though I do believe in the principle of it - understandably, it's the people at the lower bands who complain about the pay of those above them - thats human nature, but in a very simplistic way, why should we all be paid equal when we have such a wide range of workload levels?
Back to the real issue of this thread - is there any truth about Mahabas 1st claim re sitting on promotions? If so have the union been involved? If not, why not?
They are mainly approach validations, as the quieter area validations tend to be a second, unpaid for and as far as Minimum Unit Requirement is concerned, unrequired validations.
We do have some people who do one non-core sector - often because that was the only training seat available at the time and they are waiting to train on a core sector as a second validation, though sometimes because that is all that the person is capable of. Is that right - of course it's not. Is it right that those people without Minimum Unit Requirements should be OJTIs? Of course it isn't if its down to ability. Unfortunately due to weak management, it does happen.
I know that the quietest sector at Swanwick will be way quieter than the busy ones at Manchester or Scottish, but banding is based on core validations (or was supposed to be).
As for general traffic levels and complexity, I'm afraid that friends I know who have been valid at Swanwick and West Drayton who have since transferred at their request have all said that the overall mix of complexity and traffic levels is less at their new unit. Not one has said otherwise.
It's not a willy waving contest, if you search all my posts you will see I agree that the way banding has been worked out is wrong, though I do believe in the principle of it - understandably, it's the people at the lower bands who complain about the pay of those above them - thats human nature, but in a very simplistic way, why should we all be paid equal when we have such a wide range of workload levels?
Back to the real issue of this thread - is there any truth about Mahabas 1st claim re sitting on promotions? If so have the union been involved? If not, why not?
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: USA
Age: 66
Posts: 2,183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wizad
Yet this comment would seem to be in odds to that opinion
EW Band 2 grunt....
i do not percieve the cost of living to be the factor in pay.
Yet this comment would seem to be in odds to that opinion
and as for banding, i would happily take band 4 pay for what you could buy a house up there for.
