Airservices Australia Psychometric Testing
Joined: Sep 2011
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From: Brisbane
An allowance is paid
Joined: May 2009
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From: YMML
That question has been put and the response was "we get enough applicants". "Never mind the quality feel the width" comes to mind.
It costs several $100,000 to train a controller & they worry about a few $1000 here or there. You could up the trainee pay by say $20,000 and come out ahead because you'd attract a higher quality of trainee. One extra pass every couple of courses and you'd be in the black.
It costs several $100,000 to train a controller & they worry about a few $1000 here or there. You could up the trainee pay by say $20,000 and come out ahead because you'd attract a higher quality of trainee. One extra pass every couple of courses and you'd be in the black.
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Australia
I live in Tullamarine on Melrose Drive (as do two more of my course mates in different houses) and it take me six minutes to get to work 
What do you mean "attract a higher quality of trainee"?
Is this an insinuation that we only got through because better people didn't apply?!
What do you mean "attract a higher quality of trainee"?
Is this an insinuation that we only got through because better people didn't apply?!
Last edited by kiwi chick; 15th October 2012 at 09:47.
Joined: May 2012
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From: YMML
We're lucky ASA pays us at all. And seriously that is a very veeeerry good wage just for training. Any other similar job in the world you'd have to pay to train and then not necessarily be guaranteed a job. It's not like you make the company any money while in training, where as the trainee blippees are straight-away doing their actual job, not just pretending like the atc trainees. Plus, what other job would you get paid that much as a trainee, then if you're a successful employee your pay doubles within a year & 1/2. Maybe you should try living on a 1st year apprentice wage? And just because the job wasn't for you doesn't mean the applicants/trainees are bad quality. It's a hard job, and it's not for everyone. But there are a lot of successful new field trainees & newly rated controllers. If you can make it through the college, which is hard FOR A REASON, this is an amazing job, with fantastic people, and the pay is pretty darn impressive.
Joined: Aug 2009
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From: Canberra
Considering what I have just paid and how much I've had to work to pay off a commercial pilot license with no guarantee of a job or of even getting paid when I finally got a job, I for one am over the moon that Airservices will be paying me to train. They could pay me $100 a week and I'd still show up.
Could be worse!
Could be worse!
Joined: Sep 2011
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From: Brisbane
It was actually a big pay rise for me when I started training, but if we hadn't had some savings put by I would have had to turn down the job, as we wouldn't have been able to afford to move down to Melbourne. I wonder how many people have done just that.
Joined: May 2009
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From: YMML
Not to put too fine a point on it kiwi, but YES!!! Turns raised eyebrow in her direction and checks clipboard..... 
I've worked with a number trainees who dropped 50%+ to train which looks a fairy big disincentive to me. If you're going to pay, then paying money that won't discourage potential applicants seems sensible.
I'm not denigrating or saying the current trainees are poor quality, or that the current money is bad just that if you could attract more applicants by offering better money then you'll probably have a bigger pool of suitable applicants to pick from, with a commensurate increase at the top end.
I've worked with a number trainees who dropped 50%+ to train which looks a fairy big disincentive to me. If you're going to pay, then paying money that won't discourage potential applicants seems sensible.
I'm not denigrating or saying the current trainees are poor quality, or that the current money is bad just that if you could attract more applicants by offering better money then you'll probably have a bigger pool of suitable applicants to pick from, with a commensurate increase at the top end.
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 157
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From: Australia
Not to put too fine a point on it kiwi, but YES!!!
You're assuming that 'possibly' applicants with a better aptitude for the job were dissuaded by the training salary.
Joined: Sep 2011
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From: Brisbane
You're assuming that 'possibly' applicants with a better aptitude for the job were dissuaded by the training salary.
I'm sure Airservices isn't the only employer who's recruiters are hamstrung by their managers' out of touch ideas.
Turns raised eyebrow in her direction and checks clipboard
Joined: May 2009
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From: YMML
No, I simply assume the trainee pay will dissuade some applicants. If you can attract a bigger pool of applicants you should get more at the top end to pick from, simply because you have more in total.
Many of the controllers I work with didn't start out wanting a career in ATC. They were looking for a change or just looking for a job - they fell into it rather than actively seeking it. You need something that will attract the casually interested as well as those who desperately want it, because both are as likely to have the requisite attributes.
We've done a very average job of recruiting and training over recent years so being able to cast the net wider is surely no bad thing.
Many of the controllers I work with didn't start out wanting a career in ATC. They were looking for a change or just looking for a job - they fell into it rather than actively seeking it. You need something that will attract the casually interested as well as those who desperately want it, because both are as likely to have the requisite attributes.
We've done a very average job of recruiting and training over recent years so being able to cast the net wider is surely no bad thing.
Joined: Sep 2012
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From: YBBN
I think the training pay is fair.
What irks me is the measly $86k deemed enough for some newly rated controllers who are holding many aircraft for up to an hour in their airspace due to one runway at a main East coast airport. This increases the complexity many times over, whilst some "experienced" recruits start on 120k and may work much less complex airspace, risking their licence a whole lot less.
No fairness in that.
What irks me is the measly $86k deemed enough for some newly rated controllers who are holding many aircraft for up to an hour in their airspace due to one runway at a main East coast airport. This increases the complexity many times over, whilst some "experienced" recruits start on 120k and may work much less complex airspace, risking their licence a whole lot less.
No fairness in that.
Joined: May 2009
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From: YMML
We're paid for our expertise and experience, not how hard we work on a particular shift or sector. Maybe one day you'll be sitting on $120k on easy street and they'll be working their ring off instead or some other schmuck will be. Is it their fault they've been placed where they are? Go moan at management - they made the decision. Life's too bloody short for petty jealousy.
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: In the Dog house
By "experienced" I assume you mean mainly ex RAAF ?
From my own experience, a few years ago most non seconded Instructors at the school were on payband ASA 7, and earning substantially less than these new recruits - low $90k's.
Maybe they still are ?
Or maybe not; as according to some of the online recruitment opportunities ASA 7 payband now appears to top out at about $130K - not bad if you can negotiate this on appointment ( it was about $100k in my day).
BD
From my own experience, a few years ago most non seconded Instructors at the school were on payband ASA 7, and earning substantially less than these new recruits - low $90k's.
Maybe they still are ?
Or maybe not; as according to some of the online recruitment opportunities ASA 7 payband now appears to top out at about $130K - not bad if you can negotiate this on appointment ( it was about $100k in my day).
BD
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 66
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From: Australia
still waiting
same here jcr. I'm still waiting as well. It will be 6 weeks on Monday. One HR staff said it would be about 6 weeks and the other said it would be 4 weeks. So I'm thinking any day now.