Airservices Australia Psychometric Testing
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Kiwichick,
Nope I'm not a qualified controller.. I was a flight service specialist. You can look it up if you feel like it. Airservices phased them out. I basically sat in a tower and provided vehicle control service, aircraft advisory service, relay clearances, do weather observations, issue Metars, specials, notams. Really fun. I wanted to cross train either to VFR (tower controller) or IFR (enroute controller). But never got the opportunity because I left the country!
Nope I'm not a qualified controller.. I was a flight service specialist. You can look it up if you feel like it. Airservices phased them out. I basically sat in a tower and provided vehicle control service, aircraft advisory service, relay clearances, do weather observations, issue Metars, specials, notams. Really fun. I wanted to cross train either to VFR (tower controller) or IFR (enroute controller). But never got the opportunity because I left the country!
Join Date: Aug 2012
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Thanks
Kiwi Chick
Thank you for your reply, 1 more day to go and it all begins. All the luck in the world. Though from what stevep64 has said the first week looks booooring!!
stevep64
Thank you also stevep64. Have followed your trails and tribulations over the last few weeks, I have a CPL so hopefully some of that theory still remains in my head. But everyone writes here that there is a lot more than just flying knowledge needed to be successful, so study, study, study seems to be the mantra.
But first things first, Airservices need to call me or cull me. As canadiangal75 said to you "hang in there".
jcr737
Thank you for your reply, 1 more day to go and it all begins. All the luck in the world. Though from what stevep64 has said the first week looks booooring!!
stevep64
Thank you also stevep64. Have followed your trails and tribulations over the last few weeks, I have a CPL so hopefully some of that theory still remains in my head. But everyone writes here that there is a lot more than just flying knowledge needed to be successful, so study, study, study seems to be the mantra.
But first things first, Airservices need to call me or cull me. As canadiangal75 said to you "hang in there".
jcr737
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Haha, just as well - I've spent the entire first week we've been here just looking for somewhere to live! Fortunately we found somewhere, unfortunately all day today we're moving and accumulating furniture
I figure at least I'll get a good night's sleep and not lie awake until 0300hrs hoping everyone will like me
That, and wondering what I'm going to have for lunch tomorrow...? Hmmm?
I figure at least I'll get a good night's sleep and not lie awake until 0300hrs hoping everyone will like me
That, and wondering what I'm going to have for lunch tomorrow...? Hmmm?
Join Date: Aug 2012
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Just some quotes from CASA's current Flight Safety Australia magazine re ATC training:
‘One of our biggest issues is communication,’ says Russell Eastaway, an ATC training specialist at Airservices’ Learning Academy in Melbourne, reinforcing this with a telling statistic: ‘communication is a causal factor in approximately 75 per cent of aviation accidents/incidents’.
Russell Eastaway explains that the Learning Academy emphasises ‘active listening, where ATC trainees focus on listening to every word’, as well as not combining a number of different instructions in one transmission, in order to minimise confusion.’ Compared to the rest of the world, Australian ATC training and oversight is ‘very regimented’, Eastaway says. ‘All controllers have regular six-monthly assessments, with communication one of the test elements. To retain their ATC endorsements, controllers must score at least 4 on a scale of 1-7. If controllers scored 3 on communication/phraseology, for example, they would have to undertake remedial study, and be reassessed in a month’s time.’
‘One of our biggest issues is communication,’ says Russell Eastaway, an ATC training specialist at Airservices’ Learning Academy in Melbourne, reinforcing this with a telling statistic: ‘communication is a causal factor in approximately 75 per cent of aviation accidents/incidents’.
Russell Eastaway explains that the Learning Academy emphasises ‘active listening, where ATC trainees focus on listening to every word’, as well as not combining a number of different instructions in one transmission, in order to minimise confusion.’ Compared to the rest of the world, Australian ATC training and oversight is ‘very regimented’, Eastaway says. ‘All controllers have regular six-monthly assessments, with communication one of the test elements. To retain their ATC endorsements, controllers must score at least 4 on a scale of 1-7. If controllers scored 3 on communication/phraseology, for example, they would have to undertake remedial study, and be reassessed in a month’s time.’
Join Date: Sep 2012
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Hi all,
Recently rated controller here.
I just thought I'd share some of my experiences of the College.
First of all, I have no prior aviation background and skimmed the ARM on the usb for about 30 minutes before beginning the course. It's really no big deal and you should just enjoy your free time prior to beginning the first 8 weeks of study.
I found the first 8 weeks of theory the most difficult. Study for 2-3 hours every night. It is a real slog, but once into the sim, the workload really eases and you can concentrate on your sim performance.
I really enjoyed the sim. Sometimes me and my fellow course mates were awestruck to believe we were actually getting paid to do it. The checks and exams can be stressful, but as long as you're safe, it's all good.
The instructors are excellent and really want to see you through to the end. It is natural though that some students just aren't suited to the job, and that's ok. It's not something you want to do otherwise.
Make sure you celebrate the milestones, however small, with your course mates and be supportive for those finding it tough. You may be in the same position the next week.
It really is a great job, and so give it your all!
Recently rated controller here.
I just thought I'd share some of my experiences of the College.
First of all, I have no prior aviation background and skimmed the ARM on the usb for about 30 minutes before beginning the course. It's really no big deal and you should just enjoy your free time prior to beginning the first 8 weeks of study.
I found the first 8 weeks of theory the most difficult. Study for 2-3 hours every night. It is a real slog, but once into the sim, the workload really eases and you can concentrate on your sim performance.
I really enjoyed the sim. Sometimes me and my fellow course mates were awestruck to believe we were actually getting paid to do it. The checks and exams can be stressful, but as long as you're safe, it's all good.
The instructors are excellent and really want to see you through to the end. It is natural though that some students just aren't suited to the job, and that's ok. It's not something you want to do otherwise.
Make sure you celebrate the milestones, however small, with your course mates and be supportive for those finding it tough. You may be in the same position the next week.
It really is a great job, and so give it your all!
Last edited by Not Yet Identified; 16th Sep 2012 at 12:05.
re: the discussion about leave above, it is a perfect example of Airservices stuffing something up for no reason other than incompetence.
As the person who developed the precursor to the current system in Airservices that was originally used on one specific group, the following is how the system was originally designed before a focus group got hold of it.
The 18 months and the points are completely screwed. Originally, the leave was done on 3 consecutive 6 month blocks. People would bid for leave in a 12 month period to have 6 months approved in 6 months time. What that meant was that say we are in January. You would bid for July -July and the July-December would be approved with the following Jan-July displayed for all to see. Come July, you would then be able to bid for Jan-December with Jan-June approved. You could change the unapproved 6 months if you wanted. Each person was given an allocation of starting points and additional points each year. You could then use those points to bid for leave in A, B or C class. A 2 points, B 1.5 points and C 1 point obviously depending on how much you wanted that leave. You could do adhoc leave in the current 6 months (ie the first 6 months of the 18 months) for zero points. The reason for the second half of the 12 months being displayed but not approved was for planning so that you could se if someone was going to have a block of A leave when the approved bidding period started for your own planning purposes/negotiation with others. New people to the group would get an average.
You also received two 'power balls' each year which could only be used xmas and Easter. These did not have to be used, would not expire and had no maximum limit. This meant that you could save them one year then the next year bid all 4 and guarantee xmas off for example. As an example, A class leave was beaten by A class plus one power ball. When two or more people had the same leave class (A, B or C), the individual's remaining points at the end of the common leave period decided who would win.
Hope that makes sense. It was invented when two individuals I worked with abused the old first come first served method and put in for school holidays for the next 10 years effectively shutting the door on the rest of us. Even the abortion system that exists now is better than the old way. People quickly forget about the leave embargos that used to go on.
As the person who developed the precursor to the current system in Airservices that was originally used on one specific group, the following is how the system was originally designed before a focus group got hold of it.
The 18 months and the points are completely screwed. Originally, the leave was done on 3 consecutive 6 month blocks. People would bid for leave in a 12 month period to have 6 months approved in 6 months time. What that meant was that say we are in January. You would bid for July -July and the July-December would be approved with the following Jan-July displayed for all to see. Come July, you would then be able to bid for Jan-December with Jan-June approved. You could change the unapproved 6 months if you wanted. Each person was given an allocation of starting points and additional points each year. You could then use those points to bid for leave in A, B or C class. A 2 points, B 1.5 points and C 1 point obviously depending on how much you wanted that leave. You could do adhoc leave in the current 6 months (ie the first 6 months of the 18 months) for zero points. The reason for the second half of the 12 months being displayed but not approved was for planning so that you could se if someone was going to have a block of A leave when the approved bidding period started for your own planning purposes/negotiation with others. New people to the group would get an average.
You also received two 'power balls' each year which could only be used xmas and Easter. These did not have to be used, would not expire and had no maximum limit. This meant that you could save them one year then the next year bid all 4 and guarantee xmas off for example. As an example, A class leave was beaten by A class plus one power ball. When two or more people had the same leave class (A, B or C), the individual's remaining points at the end of the common leave period decided who would win.
Hope that makes sense. It was invented when two individuals I worked with abused the old first come first served method and put in for school holidays for the next 10 years effectively shutting the door on the rest of us. Even the abortion system that exists now is better than the old way. People quickly forget about the leave embargos that used to go on.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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To further complicate the issue, I work in a different location to Plazbot, and have never heard of the system he described.
Ours is done in six month blocks, 14 months in advance. Every six months you will put in for the leave you want between 14 and 20 months from now. The group has maximum number of people who can be on leave at once. If more than that number want leave at the same time the leave rostering person will go back and look ate what each person had last year, and give priority to those who didn't have leave that time last year. In practice, outside school holidays and Christmas there aren't often issues.
One problem though is when you join a group and get rated, the leave roster has already been decided for the next year and a half, so your options will be limited.
Ours is done in six month blocks, 14 months in advance. Every six months you will put in for the leave you want between 14 and 20 months from now. The group has maximum number of people who can be on leave at once. If more than that number want leave at the same time the leave rostering person will go back and look ate what each person had last year, and give priority to those who didn't have leave that time last year. In practice, outside school holidays and Christmas there aren't often issues.
One problem though is when you join a group and get rated, the leave roster has already been decided for the next year and a half, so your options will be limited.
Last edited by Nautilus Blue; 16th Sep 2012 at 12:37.
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Leave at the Academy??
I hear at least one recent course took so long its members had two Christmases during their time in the Academy. And the odd single day of forced leave for 'staff development' purposes, but that's another story entirely.
Good luck to those kicking off tomorrow. You'll need it, and a whole lot of hard work, to come out the other end rated and smiling eighteen or so months down the track. But hey, livin' the dream, and all that.
Depending on when you start, don't expect a decent break until Christmas comes up, if it comes up during your training.
Good luck to those kicking off tomorrow. You'll need it, and a whole lot of hard work, to come out the other end rated and smiling eighteen or so months down the track. But hey, livin' the dream, and all that.
Naut Blue, again, a half version of the original intent. The system I described above worked a treat. Pure numbers. Just what ATC OCD types need. Did you know that next year there will be an instance when the time will be in UTC time group 030507091113. Numbers are awesome.
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Just what procedural ATC OCD types need.
I only know two numbers, 5 and 1000.I suppose we should give this thread back to our future colleagues, can we agree that the definitive answer is "It depends...."?
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Fatty182, I thinks it's slightly easier at the centres. The friends I referred to are at airports. Mostly, but not all, capitol city radar towers. The system was very similar to that described by Plazbot, but no powerballs. I have no idea how the system got so screwed that they are having to plan so far ahead. It makes life a nightmare, especially if your partner works & you have kids of school age.
Join Date: Jul 2012
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So I know about 100 pages back, someone briefly talked about accomodation down in melb. But seeing as i'm now on the Jan 7th Enroute course, I feel I should find out a bit more info.
Esp the guys who have just started, what type of accom do you guys have (renting a unit, shared accom with a random, or shared with a course mate). and those who have grown up in melbourne, what area's are best. preferable close and somewhere im not going to get stabbed!
Esp the guys who have just started, what type of accom do you guys have (renting a unit, shared accom with a random, or shared with a course mate). and those who have grown up in melbourne, what area's are best. preferable close and somewhere im not going to get stabbed!
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Just my 2 cents about accommodation, I lived with a guy on my course, and we picked up another person from a later course a few months in. We all found it handy living with other people in the same situation and could understand what we wanted to talk about when we got home :P Oh and the car pooling is handy and cheaper too.
We lived at Taylors Hill, which is nice enough, reasonably priced, and only about 20 minutes to the airport, and we didn't have to take any major freeways or busy roads, so we almost never had to worry about traffic. Taylors Hill to the city is about 30-40 minutes by car or train, but you'll be pretty busy at the college so don't expect to be out partying every weekend anyway :P
We lived at Taylors Hill, which is nice enough, reasonably priced, and only about 20 minutes to the airport, and we didn't have to take any major freeways or busy roads, so we almost never had to worry about traffic. Taylors Hill to the city is about 30-40 minutes by car or train, but you'll be pretty busy at the college so don't expect to be out partying every weekend anyway :P
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I lived with a guy on my course, and we picked up another person from a later course a few months in
Join Date: Sep 2011
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I'll second what Fatty said about the Taylor's Hill area. I'm in Keilor Downs, a neighbouring suburb. On a good day I can be at work in 15 minutes. $300 for a three bedroom house with ensuite, walk-in robe and walk-in pantry.
Oh, and the new Coles at Taylor's Hill is huge.
Oh, and the new Coles at Taylor's Hill is huge.
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Definitely stay away from the Broadmeadows area.
Two of us had our cars broken into in the BoM carpark while we were on the aerodrome observer's course that tower trainees have to do.
If anyone on the November course wants to come down early, our place at Keilor Downs will be available in a couple of weeks. I've just pulled out of the course and am heading back to Brisbane soon.
Two of us had our cars broken into in the BoM carpark while we were on the aerodrome observer's course that tower trainees have to do.
If anyone on the November course wants to come down early, our place at Keilor Downs will be available in a couple of weeks. I've just pulled out of the course and am heading back to Brisbane soon.
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Hey stevep64,
Just read your post. Commiserations on pulling out.
Just how tough is the course? I just done my assessment day but am of a similar age to you.
Without getting too personal is age a factor? People are always posting the fact that younger minds adapt much better to the course.
jcr737
Just read your post. Commiserations on pulling out.
Just how tough is the course? I just done my assessment day but am of a similar age to you.
Without getting too personal is age a factor? People are always posting the fact that younger minds adapt much better to the course.
jcr737
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CanuckInOz: my housemate was advertising on here fortunately, he already had a place, was just looking for people to fill the rooms. It was only $120 a week, which included the internet, then just share of water and electricity bills.