ATC VOLUNTARY OVERTIME BAN: Dublin Flights Delayed 25th January
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Morning Ireland Link
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Same ole same ole
Hey pipsqalk no worries.
extract indo today - breaking news:
Business leaders have warned that strike action by air traffic controllers next week will damage the economy.
According to business group, ISME the strike comes at a time when Irish competitiveness is already under threat.
Hundreds of flights in and out of Dublin, Cork and Shannon airports are being cancelled on Thursday of next week because of a 24 hour strike by controllers.
Ryanair has claimed the action shows that the public are being 'hijacked' by the controllers.
AND
Ryanair has launched a scathing attack on Ireland's air traffic controllers over their refusal to work overtime as part of a dispute over staffing levels.
The ban has led to delays and cancellations at Dublin, Cork and Shannon airports over the past few weeks.
Ryanair claimed today that the controllers were misleading the public by saying the row relates to staff shortages.
The airline claims the workers are actually seeking more money, even though they are already well-paid.
Same IAA speak from MOLs gap - as expected. Remember MOL and co will jump on any bandwagon and if there isn't one then they make one up....
FOCUS ATCOs and don't lose the plot and expect lots more of this type of distorted and limited reporting. I mean, ATC and airports is the main view that the public have of your function and they have no idea of how much dosh the en-route function produces or even how this is achieved and more relevant what happens to it....
Funny tho to think that LK and co will sit back and let MOL and co do the raving.....
Go on MOL do your thing!! At least it's good for a laugh!!
extract indo today - breaking news:
Business leaders have warned that strike action by air traffic controllers next week will damage the economy.
According to business group, ISME the strike comes at a time when Irish competitiveness is already under threat.
Hundreds of flights in and out of Dublin, Cork and Shannon airports are being cancelled on Thursday of next week because of a 24 hour strike by controllers.
Ryanair has claimed the action shows that the public are being 'hijacked' by the controllers.
AND
Ryanair has launched a scathing attack on Ireland's air traffic controllers over their refusal to work overtime as part of a dispute over staffing levels.
The ban has led to delays and cancellations at Dublin, Cork and Shannon airports over the past few weeks.
Ryanair claimed today that the controllers were misleading the public by saying the row relates to staff shortages.
The airline claims the workers are actually seeking more money, even though they are already well-paid.
Same IAA speak from MOLs gap - as expected. Remember MOL and co will jump on any bandwagon and if there isn't one then they make one up....
FOCUS ATCOs and don't lose the plot and expect lots more of this type of distorted and limited reporting. I mean, ATC and airports is the main view that the public have of your function and they have no idea of how much dosh the en-route function produces or even how this is achieved and more relevant what happens to it....
Funny tho to think that LK and co will sit back and let MOL and co do the raving.....
Go on MOL do your thing!! At least it's good for a laugh!!
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Whilst it is very honourable that you observe from afar the rantings of MOL et al, Joe Public does not have the in depth knowledge of the situation that you have.
As far as Joe Public is concerned this dispute is about money, pure and simple! Why, because that's all he hears on the airwaves from MOL and IAA and anyone else with an agenda that involves the ATCOs looking bad.
Unfortunately in the modern world it is all about spin! The substance, regretably, has nothing to do with how this dispute will end.
For people who's entire career revolves around communication you are getting hammered by the communication abilities of corporate entities.
Get your sound bites into the public domain!!
The man on the street will support you if he knows what you want. Currently this message is getting lost amidst an avalanche of propoganda.
If your message is not represented at every media release you are being attacked. It is time for media action!
Slan,
IF2
As far as Joe Public is concerned this dispute is about money, pure and simple! Why, because that's all he hears on the airwaves from MOL and IAA and anyone else with an agenda that involves the ATCOs looking bad.
Unfortunately in the modern world it is all about spin! The substance, regretably, has nothing to do with how this dispute will end.
For people who's entire career revolves around communication you are getting hammered by the communication abilities of corporate entities.
Get your sound bites into the public domain!!
The man on the street will support you if he knows what you want. Currently this message is getting lost amidst an avalanche of propoganda.
If your message is not represented at every media release you are being attacked. It is time for media action!
Slan,
IF2
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Yahweh,
Is it this question?;
The Answer has to be Aviation.
You like to ask that question of people - see the ATC thred on the ground ops area.
Does it suddenly change in your mind what people are saying just because they drive a Porche or have some other badge that you look may look up to or down on?
You either agree with what is said or you don't. Would you agree with something only if it is said by a certain class of person?
Regards,
DFC
DFC,
You have'nt answered my question.
You have'nt answered my question.
Just out of curiosity DFC, what exactly is your area of expertise?
You like to ask that question of people - see the ATC thred on the ground ops area.
Does it suddenly change in your mind what people are saying just because they drive a Porche or have some other badge that you look may look up to or down on?
You either agree with what is said or you don't. Would you agree with something only if it is said by a certain class of person?
Regards,
DFC
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Moderator
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BTW I hope you teach a "certain airline" a thing or two about how aviation professionals should conduct themselves. Maybe flight-planned route would help?
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Isn't it about time that impact issued a statment ........
Isn't it about time that the controllers view were heard on national radio and tv and not the IAA/ ryanair joint alliance .
I suppose if a Ryanair pilot gets sick MOL just cancels a flight......
Isn't it about time that the controllers view were heard on national radio and tv and not the IAA/ ryanair joint alliance .
I suppose if a Ryanair pilot gets sick MOL just cancels a flight......
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just been on the phone to a mate of mine with absolutely nothing to do with aviation. the conversation at the table during his tea break was something like.
did you hear your man oleary on the radio
yeah controllers on 140k are looking for more money
yeah 15% or something
greedy f
ers!!!
what do they do anyway sit in the tower and look out a window
fk sake so 15% of 140k is emmm around 160k i think and thats supposed to be the average!!
well i think thats what he said the other fella was on about staff or something, Fk it, for that I'll work for them.
etc. etc. etc.
This is the message thats getting out...
We need our message out there...
We have not recruited atcos since 2001, since we have had VERs almost 50% increase in traffic, increased airspace, increased complexity and there are not enough being recruited to cover for future needs ie training and project staff, maternity and paternity leave, annual leave, upcoming retirements and the inevitable increase in traffic.
We need more ATCO's its simple. Tell the masses
did you hear your man oleary on the radio
yeah controllers on 140k are looking for more money
yeah 15% or something
greedy f
ers!!!what do they do anyway sit in the tower and look out a window
f
k sake so 15% of 140k is emmm around 160k i think and thats supposed to be the average!!well i think thats what he said the other fella was on about staff or something, F
k it, for that I'll work for them.etc. etc. etc.
This is the message thats getting out...
We need our message out there...
We have not recruited atcos since 2001, since we have had VERs almost 50% increase in traffic, increased airspace, increased complexity and there are not enough being recruited to cover for future needs ie training and project staff, maternity and paternity leave, annual leave, upcoming retirements and the inevitable increase in traffic.
We need more ATCO's its simple. Tell the masses
Last edited by pip squalk; 21st Feb 2008 at 10:34.
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can someone answer what benefit is it that the motor mouth from mullingar cozys up with the IAA and fights their battles......me thinks there's more to this than meets the eye.
Just so happens aer lingus are going to pull the plug on siptu employees next week so a timely shut down of the aviaition sector next week, where as the victim as in dear michael is winding up to have a field day!!
Just so happens aer lingus are going to pull the plug on siptu employees next week so a timely shut down of the aviaition sector next week, where as the victim as in dear michael is winding up to have a field day!!
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His Bertieness
Just heard the teashack on the radio.
He says he accepts that there is a staff shortage in ATC and that an interim solution must be found until the newbies are trained up.
Maybe he could tell brennan that
He says he accepts that there is a staff shortage in ATC and that an interim solution must be found until the newbies are trained up.
Maybe he could tell brennan that
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Stick to your guns lads and support each other.
You'll never win the PR battle, so pay no heed to MOL's invective and forget about winning the hearts and minds of Joe Public - it's not going to happen, that's just the way it is in these kind of disputes. Joe Public is never going to have much empathy for relatively high earning workers going on strike.
Your battle is with your employer, the IAA, and the IAA know that they are the one's who will have to sit down and sort this mess out. Stick to your guns, and stick it to IAA management. You have plenty of support from the rest of us in the industry. Keep the faith.
You'll never win the PR battle, so pay no heed to MOL's invective and forget about winning the hearts and minds of Joe Public - it's not going to happen, that's just the way it is in these kind of disputes. Joe Public is never going to have much empathy for relatively high earning workers going on strike.
Your battle is with your employer, the IAA, and the IAA know that they are the one's who will have to sit down and sort this mess out. Stick to your guns, and stick it to IAA management. You have plenty of support from the rest of us in the industry. Keep the faith.
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why dont you guys stop foolin around and put and bullet point spread on the national newspapers. When you have O'L on board with the IAA you need a bigger megaphone now. Landers for me was his usual puppy dog monotone crap on the radio.
Spend the money........get a spread on the paper........get the public on side.
Spend the money........get a spread on the paper........get the public on side.
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DFC,
"Would you agree with something only if it is said by a certain class of person?"
I think you have answered this for me. Considering the fact that a lot of your comments seem to be out of date, It does change my opinion of your answers if you have no particular expertise in this field.
If I were to ask a doctor a medical question I would expect a different answer to the same question put to a lay person.
My question to you was whether or not you are a controller or pilot? Your answer needs to be a bit more specific than "The Answer has to be Aviation", by that you could be a baggage handler for all I know. Thus your contribution to this forum would be inaccurate and misleading
So I'm still putting the question to you,
Are you a controller, commercial pilot or neither..
No ambiguous answer's please, its a straight forward question. You can either choose to answer it or not.
"Would you agree with something only if it is said by a certain class of person?"
I think you have answered this for me. Considering the fact that a lot of your comments seem to be out of date, It does change my opinion of your answers if you have no particular expertise in this field.
If I were to ask a doctor a medical question I would expect a different answer to the same question put to a lay person.
My question to you was whether or not you are a controller or pilot? Your answer needs to be a bit more specific than "The Answer has to be Aviation", by that you could be a baggage handler for all I know. Thus your contribution to this forum would be inaccurate and misleading
So I'm still putting the question to you,
Are you a controller, commercial pilot or neither..
No ambiguous answer's please, its a straight forward question. You can either choose to answer it or not.
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Whineair
I think Bearcats idea is a good one, however i fear that MOL and his IAA cronies already have the upper hand. I seem recall that we pleaded with IMPACT to get our side of the story out to the press much earlier and they ignored us.
MOL seems to use the old P.R. adage
"the principle— which is quite true in itself — that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily," are often misquoted or paraphrased as:
"The bigger the lie the more the people will believe it"
A. Hitler
MOL seems to use the old P.R. adage
"the principle— which is quite true in itself — that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily," are often misquoted or paraphrased as:
"The bigger the lie the more the people will believe it"
A. Hitler
Last edited by norby; 21st Feb 2008 at 12:12.
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Press Release
PRESS RELEASE:
Michael o Leary intentionally puts his passengers , crew and aircraft in danger.
Michael o Leary ,the multi millionaire farmer and owner of ryanair has today called for his airline to be put at risk of a catastrophic crash. He called on air traffic controllers to work until they are fatigued , tired and to work all the overtime needed to keep his airline generating revenue.
Mr. O leary , who is reported to earn 543 euro per hour , 3000 euro a day, which equates to 992,000 euro a year which is on top the 65,000,000 euro in shares and share options he has been granted by his own company, accepts that he is only interested in making more money at all costs. MR o leary is reported to have stated "sure what cost is a life"
IT is also reported that MR O Leary believes that controllers are unneccessary because he has tired pilots to look after his planes while they are in the air. The pilot associations today including ryanair's pilots have said that they dont agree with MR o Leary on this fact and have said that they would not be safe without air traffic controllers.
The Concerned Controllers for the Travelling Public today called on MR o Leary to confirm or deny that he has in fact no regard for the safety of his passengers.
It is internationally recognised that FATIGUE, STRESS and EXCESSIVE OVERTIME are major factors and causes in aviation accidents. Concerned Controllers for the Travelling Public today call on Michael O leary, ryanair , Aer Lingus and all the other airlines to support the controllers and thereby support the continueing safe operation of their airlines and businesses.
The Concerned Controllers for the Traveling Public has grave fears that Ryanair and the IAA are in fact the one company. We call on MR o leary to publish the full facts and figures relating to whether he is actually engaged in a silent takeover of the IAA.
MR o Leary is also challenged to publish how many times air tarffic controllers have saved his and other flights from disaster by intervening and preventing loss of life.
Once again the controllers call on Mr o leary to support them and thereby support the continueng safe operation of his and other airlines in face of mis-managemnet by the IAA.
ENDS
For further info contact your nearest ATC center or the Air accident investigation branch,the NTSB,the FAA or friendly local controller.
Michael o Leary intentionally puts his passengers , crew and aircraft in danger.
Michael o Leary ,the multi millionaire farmer and owner of ryanair has today called for his airline to be put at risk of a catastrophic crash. He called on air traffic controllers to work until they are fatigued , tired and to work all the overtime needed to keep his airline generating revenue.
Mr. O leary , who is reported to earn 543 euro per hour , 3000 euro a day, which equates to 992,000 euro a year which is on top the 65,000,000 euro in shares and share options he has been granted by his own company, accepts that he is only interested in making more money at all costs. MR o leary is reported to have stated "sure what cost is a life"
IT is also reported that MR O Leary believes that controllers are unneccessary because he has tired pilots to look after his planes while they are in the air. The pilot associations today including ryanair's pilots have said that they dont agree with MR o Leary on this fact and have said that they would not be safe without air traffic controllers.
The Concerned Controllers for the Travelling Public today called on MR o Leary to confirm or deny that he has in fact no regard for the safety of his passengers.
It is internationally recognised that FATIGUE, STRESS and EXCESSIVE OVERTIME are major factors and causes in aviation accidents. Concerned Controllers for the Travelling Public today call on Michael O leary, ryanair , Aer Lingus and all the other airlines to support the controllers and thereby support the continueing safe operation of their airlines and businesses.
The Concerned Controllers for the Traveling Public has grave fears that Ryanair and the IAA are in fact the one company. We call on MR o leary to publish the full facts and figures relating to whether he is actually engaged in a silent takeover of the IAA.
MR o Leary is also challenged to publish how many times air tarffic controllers have saved his and other flights from disaster by intervening and preventing loss of life.
Once again the controllers call on Mr o leary to support them and thereby support the continueng safe operation of his and other airlines in face of mis-managemnet by the IAA.
ENDS
For further info contact your nearest ATC center or the Air accident investigation branch,the NTSB,the FAA or friendly local controller.
Last edited by ock1f; 21st Feb 2008 at 13:00.
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Originally Posted by PPRuNe Radar
I'll ask my Ryanair pilot mates if they have 'Foxtrot Oscar' in their waypoint database
'FUKUE' an NDB on the field at RJFE
--------
Yahweh,
If I were to ask a doctor a medical question I would expect a different answer to the same question put to a lay person.
It is the old ATC story -
Working radar and a co-worker leans over and says "Aren't those two getting a bit close?" - You immediately check.
If the cleaner looks over your shoulder and says "Aren't those two getting a bit close?" do you simply ignore it because it is the cleaner?
I could tell you what I do but you would probably not believe me anyway and quite right too because this is an anonymous forum and people can say anything.
Let's just say that the top grade pay being discussed would be a pay cut so you don't have to worry about me stealing your job.
Regards,
DFC
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1. Who cares what Mouth piece says we know its not true.
2. We were never going to win the public over on this because in general most people haven't a clue what we actually do.
3. We need a new mouth piece who can actually speak up for us and if required hit Mo'l with facts and figures from within his own airline i.e. his standby money he pays his pilots etc.
4. Sure we don't even know hat Impact are asking for may be they should tell us too.
This is turning into a media circus and we quickly need to get on top of all this **** thats been slung about or the real facts will get buried and so will we.
2. We were never going to win the public over on this because in general most people haven't a clue what we actually do.
3. We need a new mouth piece who can actually speak up for us and if required hit Mo'l with facts and figures from within his own airline i.e. his standby money he pays his pilots etc.
4. Sure we don't even know hat Impact are asking for may be they should tell us too.
This is turning into a media circus and we quickly need to get on top of all this **** thats been slung about or the real facts will get buried and so will we.
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PRESS RELEASE:
It is reported this afternoon that Ryanair have been told to close their website for a full weekend because it intentionally misled customers and passengers.
It is also reported that the Ryanair website was taking money from its customers without its knowledge during the booking process.
Ryanair have in the last week been convicted of releasing incorrect and false press releases from this website too.
They are to pay compensation to the innocent parties involved including air traffic controllers.
For instance and amongst others, Ryanair alleged that controllers were looking for a 15% increase in pay for overtime. This was directly contradicted by Mr . Liam Kavanagh, director of HR of the IAA on the RTE News at One yesterday. On the programme ,Mr Kavanagh confirmed that there was no demand for a 15% pay increase by Impact/Controllers.
There have been calls today on Ryanair to withdraw this and other factually incorrect statements . All sides including the Labour Court have called on Ryanair to stop telling lies and untruths in this sensitive period.
It is reported this afternoon that Ryanair have been told to close their website for a full weekend because it intentionally misled customers and passengers.
It is also reported that the Ryanair website was taking money from its customers without its knowledge during the booking process.
Ryanair have in the last week been convicted of releasing incorrect and false press releases from this website too.
They are to pay compensation to the innocent parties involved including air traffic controllers.
For instance and amongst others, Ryanair alleged that controllers were looking for a 15% increase in pay for overtime. This was directly contradicted by Mr . Liam Kavanagh, director of HR of the IAA on the RTE News at One yesterday. On the programme ,Mr Kavanagh confirmed that there was no demand for a 15% pay increase by Impact/Controllers.
There have been calls today on Ryanair to withdraw this and other factually incorrect statements . All sides including the Labour Court have called on Ryanair to stop telling lies and untruths in this sensitive period.
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Lads- no matter what BS is said about us by whoever we have to stick together.
Make no mistake it will get rough and nasty.
But remember if we are beaten on this we are beaten for the next ten years. That means you can say goodbye to your pensions, any sort of a half decent roster, say goodbye to not starting and finishing work between midnight and 6am and say hello to a crap pension ,say hello to having to pay for your own headset, to pay for the water to make a cup of tea,to paying for the biro you use to mark the strips..need i go on.
It is imperative that we dont blink. Remeber we have the upper hand both morally ,tactically and strategically.
If needs be we will take the hits and keep coming back for more.
IF we dont blink and show no signs of backing down then when the stoppages go ahead Michael o leary and Ryanair will soon turn their attention to the IAA and Bertie.
Imagine how much filthy money Ryanair will lose every day there are no flights. It wont be long hitting his sacred bottom line and more importantly hitting Ryanairs share price.
Remeber every airline CEO across europe will be ringing the IAA and Bertie.
So stay strong, take the hits and come back for more becuase we are right and failure is not an option.
Yours as ever
OCK1F
Make no mistake it will get rough and nasty.
But remember if we are beaten on this we are beaten for the next ten years. That means you can say goodbye to your pensions, any sort of a half decent roster, say goodbye to not starting and finishing work between midnight and 6am and say hello to a crap pension ,say hello to having to pay for your own headset, to pay for the water to make a cup of tea,to paying for the biro you use to mark the strips..need i go on.
It is imperative that we dont blink. Remeber we have the upper hand both morally ,tactically and strategically.
If needs be we will take the hits and keep coming back for more.
IF we dont blink and show no signs of backing down then when the stoppages go ahead Michael o leary and Ryanair will soon turn their attention to the IAA and Bertie.
Imagine how much filthy money Ryanair will lose every day there are no flights. It wont be long hitting his sacred bottom line and more importantly hitting Ryanairs share price.
Remeber every airline CEO across europe will be ringing the IAA and Bertie.
So stay strong, take the hits and come back for more becuase we are right and failure is not an option.
Yours as ever
OCK1F