Another nail in the MACC morale coffin.
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250kts
There may well be some genuine reasons for grievances at MACC but the three you mention were discussed and pretty much dismissed by other MACC staff at the beginning of this thread, in particular by TOGO DAWN at post 11.
There may well be some genuine reasons for grievances at MACC but the three you mention were discussed and pretty much dismissed by other MACC staff at the beginning of this thread, in particular by TOGO DAWN at post 11.
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One thing that pi**ed me off was the blatant disregard for people by a particular GM that was there.I know of at least one guy who put in a request for a move to Swanwick thru this GM and guess what? HR have no record on file of this letter.(Alledgedly)
I banged on for 2 years before I left asking for a Tower position and I would stay (having been previously valid) and guess what, no joy from said GM.
Week or 2 before I leave new GM says "we've not done enough to keep you, want a tower job?"
$25000 non refundable deposit on house in Canada, UK house sold? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I banged on for 2 years before I left asking for a Tower position and I would stay (having been previously valid) and guess what, no joy from said GM.
Week or 2 before I leave new GM says "we've not done enough to keep you, want a tower job?"$25000 non refundable deposit on house in Canada, UK house sold? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Dee Mac
At a Manch " roadshow" several months ago at ScACC I pressed a senior manager to tell me what the new callsign would be, his silence was deafening.
I don't think it will remain as Manchester as every time that is used the ex MACC guys will get misty eyed and think of their homeland
If Scottish is used ( which I think it should ) then the ex MACC guys will get misty eyed and think of their homeland
Remember when Highland Radar,Border Radar and of course Preston moved/closed down they did not keep their names.
Rgds
AyrTC
At a Manch " roadshow" several months ago at ScACC I pressed a senior manager to tell me what the new callsign would be, his silence was deafening.
I don't think it will remain as Manchester as every time that is used the ex MACC guys will get misty eyed and think of their homeland
If Scottish is used ( which I think it should ) then the ex MACC guys will get misty eyed and think of their homeland
Remember when Highland Radar,Border Radar and of course Preston moved/closed down they did not keep their names.
Rgds
AyrTC
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Remember when Highland Radar,Border Radar and of course Preston moved/closed down they did not keep their names.
AyrTC
And Midland, Eastern, Ulster, Gailles and Southern........those were the days
AyrTC
And Midland, Eastern, Ulster, Gailles and Southern........those were the days
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Pennine Radar was based at MACC, and was a valuable LARS provider to the south of Newcastle (from a ScOACC perspective). Why did it go?
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Reason people here dont want to move to Prestwick:
Its not a life enhancing move!
I am sure there are many individuals on here that wont like to read that but thats how it is for many many guys and girls down here.
I would wager a lot of money that if the same was happening to Prestwick, where you have your life and you are very happy with it, the annoncement was made to move you somewhere that was not as good you would not be having a party.
There are many underlying issues as well like Banding and the way the move has been dealt with by Management.
Dont anyone at Scottish think we dont like you personally as thats not the case.
You want to know how much management want to go there themselves?
Plenty of them are going for jobs South rather than go up North despite trying to constantly sell it to us.
The whole thing is a bloody joke. Why not build CTC or equivalent up there?
This whole sorry episode is about cost cutting. Band 4 together out of the way and forget about them.
NATS management are a pathetic bunch of office dwelling suits that are more interested in "Putting Spin on the latest management phrase or glossy brochure" rather than engaging with the staff and showing some form of understanding.
The move to Prestwick does not affect them so they dont care how we feel!
Its not a life enhancing move!
I am sure there are many individuals on here that wont like to read that but thats how it is for many many guys and girls down here.
I would wager a lot of money that if the same was happening to Prestwick, where you have your life and you are very happy with it, the annoncement was made to move you somewhere that was not as good you would not be having a party.
There are many underlying issues as well like Banding and the way the move has been dealt with by Management.
Dont anyone at Scottish think we dont like you personally as thats not the case.
You want to know how much management want to go there themselves?
Plenty of them are going for jobs South rather than go up North despite trying to constantly sell it to us.
The whole thing is a bloody joke. Why not build CTC or equivalent up there?
This whole sorry episode is about cost cutting. Band 4 together out of the way and forget about them.
NATS management are a pathetic bunch of office dwelling suits that are more interested in "Putting Spin on the latest management phrase or glossy brochure" rather than engaging with the staff and showing some form of understanding.
The move to Prestwick does not affect them so they dont care how we feel!
Last edited by Homo Simpson; 21st Feb 2008 at 16:42.
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...where you have your life and you are very happy with it, the annoncement was made to move you somewhere that was not as good you would not be having a party...
There were many poeple who did not want to leave West Drayton (I know, it's hard to believe), yet they have.
An argument saying 'I don't want to because it does not suit me, I like where I am' will not wash, whatever its merits to the individual.
This whole sorry episode is about cost cutting. Band 4 together out of the way and forget about them.
Relocation on a mass scale is not a 'NATS only' thing - many multinational companies in the UK have done so before and more will do so in the future.
There are many underlying issues as well like Banding...
Banding has nothing to do with the move - by trying to use it as part of your argument you weaken any legitimate argument you think you might have.
It becomes more and more apparent that money is the issue - what you really wanted was a move south and a free bump up to band 5 pay, why not admit it - at least then people might give you a bit more respect than they would at the moment when you try to hide motives.
Woe is me, I'm hard done by
Will the last person to leave MACC slam the door petulantly and flounce off into the sunset (as well as switch off the lights).
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I'm going North from MACC but I think I have earned Band 5 pay for several years now and should get it whether in Manchester or Prestwick.
If you think the jump to Band 5 is free that logically means you believe that the difficulty in validating on your sectors is equal to ours - are you starting to come round?
The methods used to justify banding were flawed. Thats why the method wasn't published as a formula. One of our guys had to work it out.
Anotherthing, can you not empathise with us at MACC at all? It's an old chestnut because it has affected the morale at MACC for years and hasn't been put right.
Lets say you do sectors 3,4 and 7 and they decide to send you to nPC. Why not, after all you are a mobile grade? Also it will balance the sizes of the units more which was a reason given to us at MACC for going North instead of South.
Even if you were happy with going to Scotland do you expect to be on a Band 5 wage? You'd mark time for years closing the circa £10k p.a. difference in Band 4/5 pay.
And you'd be gutted if the rest of your 'mates' asked the last of you to unplug the Lakes/Wirral banana and flounce off, taking it on the chin like a good chap.
The move to nPC is a separate issue that people understandably are still struggling to come to terms with. A big move like this will always affect morale.
I sure the move from West Drayton was difficult for many and is continuing to be difficult for some. So why demean our woes?
I'm also sure Dee Mac is right in that people will come to terms with Scotland in time, but I'm also sure that that time will be difficult and possibly long for some.
I won't come to terms with banding though! I'm not alone either.
Ayr TC: It will be strange answering Birmingham departures with "Scottish Control"
321 now: There is now a full airway structure between Polehill (near Leeds) up to Newcastle which was added to our North Sector. This sector provides a full Radar Control Service with every aircraft known traffic.
In the past this airspace (the NORCA) was controlled by Pennine Radar at MACC but only giving RIS/RAS meaning lots of traffic was unknown and thus less safe. Once the NORCA became Class A what was left of Pennine (vale of York and the East coast) was most efficiently served by the military (now at Swanwick).
If you think the jump to Band 5 is free that logically means you believe that the difficulty in validating on your sectors is equal to ours - are you starting to come round?
The methods used to justify banding were flawed. Thats why the method wasn't published as a formula. One of our guys had to work it out.
Anotherthing, can you not empathise with us at MACC at all? It's an old chestnut because it has affected the morale at MACC for years and hasn't been put right.
Lets say you do sectors 3,4 and 7 and they decide to send you to nPC. Why not, after all you are a mobile grade? Also it will balance the sizes of the units more which was a reason given to us at MACC for going North instead of South.
Even if you were happy with going to Scotland do you expect to be on a Band 5 wage? You'd mark time for years closing the circa £10k p.a. difference in Band 4/5 pay.
And you'd be gutted if the rest of your 'mates' asked the last of you to unplug the Lakes/Wirral banana and flounce off, taking it on the chin like a good chap.
The move to nPC is a separate issue that people understandably are still struggling to come to terms with. A big move like this will always affect morale.
I sure the move from West Drayton was difficult for many and is continuing to be difficult for some. So why demean our woes?
I'm also sure Dee Mac is right in that people will come to terms with Scotland in time, but I'm also sure that that time will be difficult and possibly long for some.
I won't come to terms with banding though! I'm not alone either.
Ayr TC: It will be strange answering Birmingham departures with "Scottish Control"
321 now: There is now a full airway structure between Polehill (near Leeds) up to Newcastle which was added to our North Sector. This sector provides a full Radar Control Service with every aircraft known traffic.
In the past this airspace (the NORCA) was controlled by Pennine Radar at MACC but only giving RIS/RAS meaning lots of traffic was unknown and thus less safe. Once the NORCA became Class A what was left of Pennine (vale of York and the East coast) was most efficiently served by the military (now at Swanwick).
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Anotherthing,
Is it not obvious that what the MACC staff really want is to be left where they are to enable them to continue providing the first class service that they do.
Manchester Airport is, I believe, negotiating a new Tower/Approach contract with NATS, involving the provision of a new control tower/approach facility remote from the current terminal area. Does it not make business sense to make the approach facility large enough to support the current APC/MACC operation? It would instantly resolve some of the morale/staffing issues, and secure a long-term NATS foothold at a site where they and their predecessors have provided an ATC service for 50 years, (half the entire history of aviation).
Tesco's business philosophy is to open more outlets, whereas NATS wants to close theirs down. It's madness.
If, as you say. the company is keen on saving money, then as a 'shareholder' (via the PPP), I am curious how much money has been spent on the mousepushers palace at Whitley Business Park. Surely those monies would have better been spent on front line services?
Is it not obvious that what the MACC staff really want is to be left where they are to enable them to continue providing the first class service that they do.
Manchester Airport is, I believe, negotiating a new Tower/Approach contract with NATS, involving the provision of a new control tower/approach facility remote from the current terminal area. Does it not make business sense to make the approach facility large enough to support the current APC/MACC operation? It would instantly resolve some of the morale/staffing issues, and secure a long-term NATS foothold at a site where they and their predecessors have provided an ATC service for 50 years, (half the entire history of aviation).
Tesco's business philosophy is to open more outlets, whereas NATS wants to close theirs down. It's madness.
If, as you say. the company is keen on saving money, then as a 'shareholder' (via the PPP), I am curious how much money has been spent on the mousepushers palace at Whitley Business Park. Surely those monies would have better been spent on front line services?
Last edited by ZOOKER; 21st Feb 2008 at 19:48.
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Manchester Airport is, I believe, negotiating a new Tower/Approach contract with NATS, involving the provision of a new control tower/approach facility remote from the current terminal area. Does it not make business sense to make the approach facility large enough to support the current operation?
So, no, it doesn't make business sense at all to leave MACC at Manchester when they have a facility where it can locate to.
The only reason which has merit and justification would be for human reasons, to please the unhappy workforce. Any such merit has to defeat the mobile grade status, business, finance, and contingency reasons which have already been made and decided upon by the NATS Board, and which have resulted in a building being completed and shortly about to be tooled up. You'd be as well pissing in the wind because the argument is already lost.
That's the facts of the matter and I don't predict a change in the NATS position.
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"Tooled up*
Er, with what exactly?
Electronic strips, cardboard ones? If there is a coalmine underneath it, will it support the weight of cardboard strips?
Electronic strips, cardboard ones? If there is a coalmine underneath it, will it support the weight of cardboard strips?
Last edited by ZOOKER; 21st Feb 2008 at 20:32.
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Keep clutching at your straws mate .... if it gives you hope.
You said there was business sense to stay at Manchester. Precious little that you have demonstrated with your knowledge so far.
Please make the case, maybe NATS haven't thought of it
I mix regularly with folks, both socially and professionally at all the ACCs. I've said it before, but I know from talking to them that people at other Area Control units have a great degree of sympathy with you having to move. For a great many, they've had to actually do it themselves. For others, they know it could just have easily been them in your position if the situation had been different. Nobody, wherever they are, wants to uproot and start afresh when they have settled in to an area. It's human nature, and people understand it.
The following is very very generic and doesn't apply to everyone at MACC.
What most people at other ACCs are finding tiresome is the continual attempts by some to stop the move (a waste of your time and energy) when the reasons for NATS to make the move (in business and operational terms) are overwhelming. Being a realist, I simply don't think you can change anything. You never had enough ammunition in the first place, and it's too far down the road now anyway.
They find attempts by some to hang it on the banding issue bandwagon tiresome ... that's a different issue and a totally unrelated battle.
They find the fact that between 8 and 10 years notice to move still doesn't seem enough time for some folks to work out the issue in their heads and stop denying it is going to happen, tiresome. There are other options out there, so bite the bullet and make your choice ... then get on with it and live with your decision whatever that turns out to be. Channel your anger and frustration in to doing just that. It will be a better use of your energies and will help you shape the future you want, if that's not in Prestwick.
They find it tiresome that you think you are a special case and are being dumped on. Every single NATS unit has, at some point in it's history, had managers who haven't exactly shone and been 100% truthful with their staff. Sometimes due incompetence, sometimes due spite, sometimes due laziness, and every other reason you can think of along the way. But throughout the twists and turns of the New Scottish Centre/McNERC/New Prestwick Centre/Sainsburys Car Park* saga, there have been lots and lots of information out there outlining plans, strategies, and decisions. A lot of it appeared in political media such as the press, a lot of it appeared in union bits and pieces, and a lot of it was out there being spread on the jungle drum network. But it was out there and available. I just can't understand how it took until 2006 (or whenever it was) for the folks at MACC to suddenly discover what was widely known throughout NATS up and down the country for several years before that.
(* Delete as necessary)
Of course you are entitled to have a whinge and get things of your chest. The same happened with the move to Swanwick (for both LACC and TC). But ultimately, everyone accepted it was going to happen, and then made their preparations for the move. Perhaps we are being unfair and you need more time for this process to work it's way through. Unfortunately the impression I get is that there is a touch of hysteria about and some people will be screaming and kicking right up until the joint operation in Prestwick becomes operational. And they will try a spot of rabble rousing along the way. That's their choice, but overegging things will simply erode the sympathy your NATS colleagues throughout the country have for you.
Have a long hard think about what you want to do in the future. And if you don't like the options NATS is offering, do something else. This could be either applying for another post at a location of your choice in NATS, or leaving and doing ATC elsewhere in the world, or even a career in a totally different job. The time you spend arguing the toss about why the move shouldn't happen is wasting your time to position yourself for your decision. You ain't going to stop the move, that's for sure.
You said there was business sense to stay at Manchester. Precious little that you have demonstrated with your knowledge so far.
Please make the case, maybe NATS haven't thought of it
I mix regularly with folks, both socially and professionally at all the ACCs. I've said it before, but I know from talking to them that people at other Area Control units have a great degree of sympathy with you having to move. For a great many, they've had to actually do it themselves. For others, they know it could just have easily been them in your position if the situation had been different. Nobody, wherever they are, wants to uproot and start afresh when they have settled in to an area. It's human nature, and people understand it.
The following is very very generic and doesn't apply to everyone at MACC.
What most people at other ACCs are finding tiresome is the continual attempts by some to stop the move (a waste of your time and energy) when the reasons for NATS to make the move (in business and operational terms) are overwhelming. Being a realist, I simply don't think you can change anything. You never had enough ammunition in the first place, and it's too far down the road now anyway.
They find attempts by some to hang it on the banding issue bandwagon tiresome ... that's a different issue and a totally unrelated battle.
They find the fact that between 8 and 10 years notice to move still doesn't seem enough time for some folks to work out the issue in their heads and stop denying it is going to happen, tiresome. There are other options out there, so bite the bullet and make your choice ... then get on with it and live with your decision whatever that turns out to be. Channel your anger and frustration in to doing just that. It will be a better use of your energies and will help you shape the future you want, if that's not in Prestwick.
They find it tiresome that you think you are a special case and are being dumped on. Every single NATS unit has, at some point in it's history, had managers who haven't exactly shone and been 100% truthful with their staff. Sometimes due incompetence, sometimes due spite, sometimes due laziness, and every other reason you can think of along the way. But throughout the twists and turns of the New Scottish Centre/McNERC/New Prestwick Centre/Sainsburys Car Park* saga, there have been lots and lots of information out there outlining plans, strategies, and decisions. A lot of it appeared in political media such as the press, a lot of it appeared in union bits and pieces, and a lot of it was out there being spread on the jungle drum network. But it was out there and available. I just can't understand how it took until 2006 (or whenever it was) for the folks at MACC to suddenly discover what was widely known throughout NATS up and down the country for several years before that.
(* Delete as necessary)
Of course you are entitled to have a whinge and get things of your chest. The same happened with the move to Swanwick (for both LACC and TC). But ultimately, everyone accepted it was going to happen, and then made their preparations for the move. Perhaps we are being unfair and you need more time for this process to work it's way through. Unfortunately the impression I get is that there is a touch of hysteria about and some people will be screaming and kicking right up until the joint operation in Prestwick becomes operational. And they will try a spot of rabble rousing along the way. That's their choice, but overegging things will simply erode the sympathy your NATS colleagues throughout the country have for you.
Have a long hard think about what you want to do in the future. And if you don't like the options NATS is offering, do something else. This could be either applying for another post at a location of your choice in NATS, or leaving and doing ATC elsewhere in the world, or even a career in a totally different job. The time you spend arguing the toss about why the move shouldn't happen is wasting your time to position yourself for your decision. You ain't going to stop the move, that's for sure.
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""Manchester Airport is, I believe, negotiating a new Tower/Approach contract with NATS, involving the provision of a new control tower/approach facility remote from the current terminal area. Does it not make business sense to make the approach facility large enough to support the current APC/MACC operation? It would instantly resolve some of the morale/staffing issues, and secure a long-term NATS foothold at a site where they and their predecessors have provided an ATC service for 50 years, (half the entire history of aviation). "
I know it has been rumoured for years but this time it looks like we might finally lose the Manc contract. It isn't a secret that the last negotiators made a pigs ear of the contract and NATS is losing money on the tower/app contract daily. To make it profitable means a major change and Manc PLC are not happy with the costs thus opening the door to others. Leaving the area centre there would not make any sense at all in this case.
As for banding everyone below band 5 is unhappy. We all work hard in our own ways but the 'model' was boll*cks, biased and unfortunately the greedy majority in the Union said yes please at the detrement of the 'underlings' that got left behind.
I know it has been rumoured for years but this time it looks like we might finally lose the Manc contract. It isn't a secret that the last negotiators made a pigs ear of the contract and NATS is losing money on the tower/app contract daily. To make it profitable means a major change and Manc PLC are not happy with the costs thus opening the door to others. Leaving the area centre there would not make any sense at all in this case.
As for banding everyone below band 5 is unhappy. We all work hard in our own ways but the 'model' was boll*cks, biased and unfortunately the greedy majority in the Union said yes please at the detrement of the 'underlings' that got left behind.
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Yes they may have messed up previous contract negotiations and squeezed those financial goolies......but at the end of the day a company has to run this at a profit. Secondly, how many nats personnel would stay, which would be essential for another company as this is not a minor airport, that you can just throw a load of atcos in and validate in a few months. this is is not straightforward for manch and could cause major disruption
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"Manch aint going to stop the move, that's for sure." yep I agree. However I wouldn't be so sure as to rule out a significant delay to the move into that lovely shiny new building in Jan 2010. Contrary to what 'people' want you to believe, there IS a point where the unit ( Manchester sectors) will not function without causing unacceptable delays to the company and giving NATS a situation not too dissimilar to the unrest over the water in Ireland ( by the way guys, we're watching closely and admire your unity. Stick to it!)
This position although not black and white, far from it, is getting closer by the week. People are getting pi##ed off with being crapped on overlooked constantly by NATS management and ARE deciding to look at alternative channels. The unit runs on AAVA's and long hours sat in front of the tubes and people are getting tired of it. Granted, you will always get the young energetic ( and still enthusiastic newly valids ) doing the OT because they are all up to their eyeballs in debt/mortgage and have never had the chance to earn such good money. It will be a critical time for the unit when the current AAVA agreement expires.
As well as people persuing careers outside NATS, there ARE lots of ATC applications in all over the world on a scale much, much larger than management are aware of and people are receiving offers. Many are still in the early stages but the fact is that it is out of NATS hands how many of these applications turn into offers. NATS only have control over the many applications to go down South which have been in for years. ( I think the phrase previously used on this thread was pi~~ing into the wind) Through no fault of their own trainees aren't validating as quick as they used to due to the grounding they get from our now abbreviated college course or because they have been, shall we say 'grilled' at LACC. This previously well oiled machine is running extremely dry.
It does give us hope to keep clutching at straws. People are not wasting time and energy trying to 'stop the move' as you put it, but facts cannot be overlooked. Sorry if you find it tiresome, I couldn't stand to lose more friends. Keep the healthy advise flowing. We really need that, just like a one way ticket up the M6.
"Manch aint going to stop the move, that's for sure." yep I agree. However I wouldn't be so sure as to rule out a significant delay to the move into that lovely shiny new building in Jan 2010. Contrary to what 'people' want you to believe, there IS a point where the unit ( Manchester sectors) will not function without causing unacceptable delays to the company and giving NATS a situation not too dissimilar to the unrest over the water in Ireland ( by the way guys, we're watching closely and admire your unity. Stick to it!)
This position although not black and white, far from it, is getting closer by the week. People are getting pi##ed off with being crapped on overlooked constantly by NATS management and ARE deciding to look at alternative channels. The unit runs on AAVA's and long hours sat in front of the tubes and people are getting tired of it. Granted, you will always get the young energetic ( and still enthusiastic newly valids ) doing the OT because they are all up to their eyeballs in debt/mortgage and have never had the chance to earn such good money. It will be a critical time for the unit when the current AAVA agreement expires.
As well as people persuing careers outside NATS, there ARE lots of ATC applications in all over the world on a scale much, much larger than management are aware of and people are receiving offers. Many are still in the early stages but the fact is that it is out of NATS hands how many of these applications turn into offers. NATS only have control over the many applications to go down South which have been in for years. ( I think the phrase previously used on this thread was pi~~ing into the wind
) Through no fault of their own trainees aren't validating as quick as they used to due to the grounding they get from our now abbreviated college course or because they have been, shall we say 'grilled' at LACC. This previously well oiled machine is running extremely dry.It does give us hope to keep clutching at straws. People are not wasting time and energy trying to 'stop the move' as you put it, but facts cannot be overlooked. Sorry if you find it tiresome, I couldn't stand to lose more friends. Keep the healthy advise flowing. We really need that, just like a one way ticket up the M6.
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Some good points there.
Anyone deciding that they don't want to make the move and are making alternative plans get healthy respect. They obviously realise that the future is going to happen and are taking control of their lives. I don't think anyone up the road in Scotland would take it as an insult to them if people decide not to come, but would accept that for some people the move is not one they wish to make ... whatever the reasons are should be of no concern except to those making the decision.
There are certainly some interesting times ahead for NATS management, especially when the actual number of people who are willing to accept the move becomes clear. As you say, delay in moving MACC might be inevitable. Or maybe a limited number of core sectors will be moved up and some of the peripheral airspace carved up by other units/sectors. You can bet there will be lots of options up their sleeves.
But folks at MACC should remember that there are also lots of battles to take place at other units as well, on local issues which affect them, so you can't expect everyone to be 100% interested in the MACC situation. Manning levels, AAVA agreements, WP negotiations, and a raft of issues are all coming to the fore in various places. And like our friends in the IAA, there is a lot of resistance growing to anything which eats in to free time, and the fact that NATS are constantly expecting work to be done for little or no reward.
This could be the summer when we all finally have the balls to stand up and stop being pushed around.
Aren't we all lucky our powder is still dry !!!
Anyone deciding that they don't want to make the move and are making alternative plans get healthy respect. They obviously realise that the future is going to happen and are taking control of their lives. I don't think anyone up the road in Scotland would take it as an insult to them if people decide not to come, but would accept that for some people the move is not one they wish to make ... whatever the reasons are should be of no concern except to those making the decision.
There are certainly some interesting times ahead for NATS management, especially when the actual number of people who are willing to accept the move becomes clear. As you say, delay in moving MACC might be inevitable. Or maybe a limited number of core sectors will be moved up and some of the peripheral airspace carved up by other units/sectors. You can bet there will be lots of options up their sleeves.
But folks at MACC should remember that there are also lots of battles to take place at other units as well, on local issues which affect them, so you can't expect everyone to be 100% interested in the MACC situation. Manning levels, AAVA agreements, WP negotiations, and a raft of issues are all coming to the fore in various places. And like our friends in the IAA, there is a lot of resistance growing to anything which eats in to free time, and the fact that NATS are constantly expecting work to be done for little or no reward.
This could be the summer when we all finally have the balls to stand up and stop being pushed around.
Aren't we all lucky our powder is still dry !!!
Join Date: Feb 2006
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PPrune Radar has eloquently and patiently put the argument across at post 143. More power to your elbow sir!
The fact is you do have issues, no one has ever denied that, but as stated, they are not vastly different than those met by many, many people before.
Let me put the cat amongst the pigeons here... How many (percentage) of the younger generation - lets say 40 years old or below - working at MACC are ATCOs who for whatever reason did not succeed in validating at another unit before being sent to MACC? I bet it is a high proportion.
So, instead of finding yourself out on your ear, the company paid you to move to a unit, thus ensuring you remained in a highly paid (even Band 4 counts as that) job.
How many of those same people are now whingeing about how unjust this companies ethics are because they are being moved (and it is happening, stop kidding yourselves)?
One owl wrote:
I'm afraid that argument does not wash when put up against other arguments... MACC is far from unique in this situation.
If you want to put your money where your mouths are (literally), then work to rule. Stop doing AAVAs, don't renew you second (above Minimum Unit Requirements) validations. Then maybe the company will listen to you and pay you more. Until you start to do that, then I'm afraid your arguments are diluted.
The fact is you do have issues, no one has ever denied that, but as stated, they are not vastly different than those met by many, many people before.
Let me put the cat amongst the pigeons here... How many (percentage) of the younger generation - lets say 40 years old or below - working at MACC are ATCOs who for whatever reason did not succeed in validating at another unit before being sent to MACC? I bet it is a high proportion.
So, instead of finding yourself out on your ear, the company paid you to move to a unit, thus ensuring you remained in a highly paid (even Band 4 counts as that) job.
How many of those same people are now whingeing about how unjust this companies ethics are because they are being moved (and it is happening, stop kidding yourselves)?
One owl wrote:
The unit runs on AAVA's and long hours sat in front of the tubes and people are getting tired of it. Granted, you will always get the young energetic ( and still enthusiastic newly valids ) doing the OT because they are all up to their eyeballs in debt/mortgage and have never had the chance to earn such good
If you want to put your money where your mouths are (literally), then work to rule. Stop doing AAVAs, don't renew you second (above Minimum Unit Requirements) validations. Then maybe the company will listen to you and pay you more. Until you start to do that, then I'm afraid your arguments are diluted.