trainee salaries
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Yes Flower is correct that income support can be claimed.
The bottom line though is Nats is now a Business(a not for profit one
) and unfortunately over the last 2 years has cut back entry salaries, and many think they may have taken it a bit far this time. However they are looking at the basis that most pilots that train fund their own training and generally are bonded, which Nats do not. Also like jerricho stated other atc providers charge the trainee.
Please remember the course was 18 months long. now less than a year so pay does rise quickly, if not as high to start as use to be. Above all you do this job because you want to. Ask a controller what they would do otherwise and apart from wanting to be on a sunbed sipping sangrias in the sun, most admit to it being a great job
The bottom line though is Nats is now a Business(a not for profit one
) and unfortunately over the last 2 years has cut back entry salaries, and many think they may have taken it a bit far this time. However they are looking at the basis that most pilots that train fund their own training and generally are bonded, which Nats do not. Also like jerricho stated other atc providers charge the trainee. Please remember the course was 18 months long. now less than a year so pay does rise quickly, if not as high to start as use to be. Above all you do this job because you want to. Ask a controller what they would do otherwise and apart from wanting to be on a sunbed sipping sangrias in the sun, most admit to it being a great job
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On 10K you would be entitled to income support if you have dependant children.
Last time I checked no promising young police probationers (just to pick one example) were getting family allowances from their employer, why should NATS operate differently?!
As flower mentions there are financial support systems put in place by HMG to help with these things, it is not the employers responsibility, espically if you accept the T's and C's beforehand.
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Let's all go out and have kids early so they'll give us more money! i think 10 grand's quite decent to live on. i get about that now. however i live at home and only pay about £100 rent to my parents. actually looking forward to the freedom!
niknak
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On £10K a year you'd be entitled to every benefit under the sun, it's just a case of people like 139 getting off their arses and taking the initiative instead of thinking the world owes them a living.
For those who think I'm being harsh, have a look at all those folk in this life who make their own way, fund all their own career goals themselves and earn a lot less than the prospective salaries which NATS or non NATS ATCOs will earn during their lifetime.
For those who think I'm being harsh, have a look at all those folk in this life who make their own way, fund all their own career goals themselves and earn a lot less than the prospective salaries which NATS or non NATS ATCOs will earn during their lifetime.
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Let's all go out and have kids early so they'll give us more money! i think 10 grand's quite decent to live on. i get about that now. however i live at home and only pay about £100 rent to my parents. actually looking forward to the freedom!
I am not looking forward to the 10K phase but I guess without a rainy day you wouldn't appreciate the sunshine !
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just to say, being at the college now, I have looked into claiming any kind of income support. For a single (or divorced ) person, the help from the government is Working Tax Credit which equates to roughly £9.50 a week.
better than a kick in the teeth and it pays for a couple of beers at least!
for anyone who is interested in reclaiming money from El Tonio try;
www.entitledto.org
) person, the help from the government is Working Tax Credit which equates to roughly £9.50 a week. better than a kick in the teeth and it pays for a couple of beers at least!
for anyone who is interested in reclaiming money from El Tonio try;
www.entitledto.org
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Nav Canada
With regards to the Nav Canada thing, I know that the students pay for their on licence although i would like to know what the pass rate is in Canada that go on to become valid ATC.
I think that if i'm going to be made to pay for my training, i would like to think i'm going to get out the other end as well as being able to decide which discipline i would like to do (area, approach, aerodrome).
I think like that, from what i've seen there seems to be a majority that want to do either approach or aerdrome.
What do you think Jericho?
I think that if i'm going to be made to pay for my training, i would like to think i'm going to get out the other end as well as being able to decide which discipline i would like to do (area, approach, aerodrome).
I think like that, from what i've seen there seems to be a majority that want to do either approach or aerdrome.
What do you think Jericho?
Ohcirrej
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*Dons rant hat*
Paying for ATC training? I'm not a huge proponent of it. I acknowledge that ATC is now a business world over, and training costs are huge. My honest opinion is that we are not always going to get the best people in the seat simply due to some individuals financial situation. I've read the numerous threads on here and spoken to wannabes world over who have simply said "I don't think I can afford to do it" (mortgage, kiddies etc). I've heard counter arguments what about doctors, dentists etc, and I agree to a point. I've been given **** for saying this before, but anyone with a lot of money (or rich parents) can obtain a pilots licence.........throw enough money at it and a CPL or ATPL isn't totally unobtainable. Same with university degrees.
Not everyone can be an Air Traffic Controller. You can study your ass off till you're crosseyed and can recite chapter and verse MATS/MANOPs. But you still have to be able to put that headset on and separate aircraft. It's an aptitude. Sure, we have aptitude testing to just get in the door, but how many OTJIs out there have seen a trainee be able to do it to a point, but not make that final step? It sucks, but it's a fact. How many potential applicants who would make the grade though are not given the chance because of a lack of cash?
The pass rate here in Canada certainly doesn't install a warm glow inside. Fairly recently IFR (Enroute and Approach/Terminal) training has been shipped out from the Training "College" in Ontario to the ACCs. We haven't seen one licence from it (first course started 2005). These are the guys and gals who have had to pay for their interviews, their introduction package (a feckin CD is sent out before they start for them to "self study".....bollocks) and for their tuition. As I said, $5500 straight up before they walk in the door. Bloody training can be hard enough without the added pressure of lack-o-cash. The do start getting paid when they begin their OJI oon the floor, but that can be 9-12 months after commencing the course.
*rant off*
Paying for ATC training? I'm not a huge proponent of it. I acknowledge that ATC is now a business world over, and training costs are huge. My honest opinion is that we are not always going to get the best people in the seat simply due to some individuals financial situation. I've read the numerous threads on here and spoken to wannabes world over who have simply said "I don't think I can afford to do it" (mortgage, kiddies etc). I've heard counter arguments what about doctors, dentists etc, and I agree to a point. I've been given **** for saying this before, but anyone with a lot of money (or rich parents) can obtain a pilots licence.........throw enough money at it and a CPL or ATPL isn't totally unobtainable. Same with university degrees.
Not everyone can be an Air Traffic Controller. You can study your ass off till you're crosseyed and can recite chapter and verse MATS/MANOPs. But you still have to be able to put that headset on and separate aircraft. It's an aptitude. Sure, we have aptitude testing to just get in the door, but how many OTJIs out there have seen a trainee be able to do it to a point, but not make that final step? It sucks, but it's a fact. How many potential applicants who would make the grade though are not given the chance because of a lack of cash?
The pass rate here in Canada certainly doesn't install a warm glow inside. Fairly recently IFR (Enroute and Approach/Terminal) training has been shipped out from the Training "College" in Ontario to the ACCs. We haven't seen one licence from it (first course started 2005). These are the guys and gals who have had to pay for their interviews, their introduction package (a feckin CD is sent out before they start for them to "self study".....bollocks) and for their tuition. As I said, $5500 straight up before they walk in the door. Bloody training can be hard enough without the added pressure of lack-o-cash. The do start getting paid when they begin their OJI oon the floor, but that can be 9-12 months after commencing the course.
*rant off*
Join Date: Oct 2002
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A few of our assistants have not persued applications with NATS due to that reason alone with families to support. Does NATS really have that many applications it believes would-bees should pay for their own training? Has there
been a reduction in applicants, I wonder...
been a reduction in applicants, I wonder...
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i think there's been a reduction/people droopping out. im convinced it's the reason for the open test day in manchester that i'm going to tomorrow!! it's even been advertised on local radio!
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'' i think there's been a reduction/people droopping out. im convinced it's the reason for the open test day in manchester that i'm going to tomorrow!! it's even been advertised on local radio!''
Not sure this is a fact, i think its more to do with demand rather than supply... NATS need atco's... NATS needs to find them soon. And NATS are possibly trying to make the application system easier. Is this going to be successful, only time will tell...
Not sure this is a fact, i think its more to do with demand rather than supply... NATS need atco's... NATS needs to find them soon. And NATS are possibly trying to make the application system easier. Is this going to be successful, only time will tell...
Join Date: Mar 2001
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My sister heard the advert on Galaxy in Manchester which only stated you can earn up to 85k.
Didn''t mention anything about the starting salary!
I think people will be surprised if they turn up and hear it's 'only' 10k
Didn''t mention anything about the starting salary!
I think people will be surprised if they turn up and hear it's 'only' 10k
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The numbers of applications is steadily rising. Days like tomorrow in Manchester and London (up to 300 in each location undertaking the stage 1 tests) have been arranged to prevent things backing up.
The process is now very quick, as rapid as five weeks from submitting application to starting a course. Things are not getting easier.
The process is now very quick, as rapid as five weeks from submitting application to starting a course. Things are not getting easier.
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Yeah. You know, I sometimes feel sorry for my victims, errr, I mean my interviewees. If I had gone through this selection process when I applied, I'm sure I wouldn't have got in!
I went to one in about 1990, had to do some daft psychometric test and aptitude tests straight out of an 11+ crib book.
On passing, we got a tour of the tower at Manchester, by a retired ATC man - dark skinned fella, I think he was called "Dicky" -thin guy with dark glasses, seemed quite a nice guy- sort of normal and obviously passionate about his role.
On passing, we got a tour of the tower at Manchester, by a retired ATC man - dark skinned fella, I think he was called "Dicky" -thin guy with dark glasses, seemed quite a nice guy- sort of normal and obviously passionate about his role.
Last edited by gingernut; 20th Feb 2007 at 15:15.
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NATS should get themselves along to graduate recruitment days at universities.. Lots of keen eager people with an open mind who are willing and able to meet the grade you would hope.. and like I said earlier, the 10k is better than the -4k they will have been used to for the last 3 years! 
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graduate recruitment days at universities
Last edited by eastern wiseguy; 20th Feb 2007 at 15:56.
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No no, not suggesting that at all, but if they took on people like other graduate schemes do, i.e. people with a 2:1 or above, they would at least be getting people who have an aptitude to learn and are willing to work, which I'm sure goes down quite well during training, even if they don't have the natural flair required (I would imagine) on the simulators.
I'm not suggesting you should have a degree to go through training either.. just in case I touch some nerves just saying there is a lot of hard working graduates out there who might not think about NATS if they don't see or hear about it.
rich
I'm not suggesting you should have a degree to go through training either.. just in case I touch some nerves
just saying there is a lot of hard working graduates out there who might not think about NATS if they don't see or hear about it.rich