LL controllers in SUN EFPS shocker
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Are you guys real? I wish I lived in your world. Having said that post #9 struck a chord. The fact that the software SHOULD have been tested to the n'th degree is irrelevant. I guarantee you'll find snags on day one.
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I have loads of mates from other units and I'm used to the "all Heathrow controllers are up there own ar$e To$$ers" banter, but I'm amazed by the lack of anti-heathrow feeling on here
Most of you that make these comments probably haven't visited the tower ever! A lot of the negative feeling stems from years ago when Heathrow was very much a place where if your face didn't fit and got a deserved crappy reputation within the company, these days it's actually not at all a bad place to work with real grounded people, our demographic has changed so much in the last 6-7 years I've been here. So before one of you tries to go for a cheeky one liner, knocking the guys and gals here, that you may think is funny, perhaps you should think about exactly what do you know about heathrow and what you don't
Rant over.
This arguement about the move, isn't a Band5 vs the rest of the company arguement, don't be so shallow. Whenever Heathrow has a concern and we ask for your support, are we meant to apologise in advance first, beacause our (Thats yours and mine) union, got Heathrow a good pay deal compared to the Band 1 and 2 units. Would Swanwick, TC and the college also have to come to you cap in hand, head bowed to get any support?
This is an issue about the company screwing us over in the most short sighted manner, if they win this one who's next?
Consider the numbers, we're looking at a minimum 10 minutes extra to a max 30 minutes, so 20 minutes - 1 hour extra per day for each shift (an average of 40 minutes). How is this fair that the company can expect me just to swallow this. I choose to live close to work albeit in a much smaller property than some of my colleagues who live in excess of 1 hour from work in much larger properties, these are lifestyle choices. As a mobile grade I have no problems with having to move or change my lifestyle patterns, it's what I signed up to, but where is the assisted move or other support the company promised when I signed the mobile grade form? Admittedly my unit isn't changing, yet my place of wok is, by a considerable amount of time.
Going back to band 5 vs other units, we were very much told that our pay rises weren't about us being special and that we deserved them it was about staff retention and recruitment!!! Heathrow can't grow into a six terminal airport with 3 runways if we can't keep the staff we've got and attract good people from other units.
Furthermore if NATS gets us to move and in no way recompenses us for this extra time on each shift, there's even less chance someone from a lower banded unit, or even similar banded for arguements sake, is going to consider throwing their hat in the ring at LL.
This isn't about what's happened in the past, mistakes were made, it's about learning from the past and supporting your colleagues for the future, if we don't then it'll be the TC boys and gals that get shafted next! And if the band 1-4 units feel so strongly about this or just don't want to offer their suport because we got a better pay deal last time, you lot are also mobile grades so why not apply to join heathrow?
Or is it a lifestyle change you don't fancy but are quite happy to see your colleagues down south get dumped with?
Most of you that make these comments probably haven't visited the tower ever! A lot of the negative feeling stems from years ago when Heathrow was very much a place where if your face didn't fit and got a deserved crappy reputation within the company, these days it's actually not at all a bad place to work with real grounded people, our demographic has changed so much in the last 6-7 years I've been here. So before one of you tries to go for a cheeky one liner, knocking the guys and gals here, that you may think is funny, perhaps you should think about exactly what do you know about heathrow and what you don't
Rant over.This arguement about the move, isn't a Band5 vs the rest of the company arguement, don't be so shallow. Whenever Heathrow has a concern and we ask for your support, are we meant to apologise in advance first, beacause our (Thats yours and mine) union, got Heathrow a good pay deal compared to the Band 1 and 2 units. Would Swanwick, TC and the college also have to come to you cap in hand, head bowed to get any support?
This is an issue about the company screwing us over in the most short sighted manner, if they win this one who's next?
Consider the numbers, we're looking at a minimum 10 minutes extra to a max 30 minutes, so 20 minutes - 1 hour extra per day for each shift (an average of 40 minutes). How is this fair that the company can expect me just to swallow this. I choose to live close to work albeit in a much smaller property than some of my colleagues who live in excess of 1 hour from work in much larger properties, these are lifestyle choices. As a mobile grade I have no problems with having to move or change my lifestyle patterns, it's what I signed up to, but where is the assisted move or other support the company promised when I signed the mobile grade form? Admittedly my unit isn't changing, yet my place of wok is, by a considerable amount of time.
Going back to band 5 vs other units, we were very much told that our pay rises weren't about us being special and that we deserved them
it was about staff retention and recruitment!!! Heathrow can't grow into a six terminal airport with 3 runways if we can't keep the staff we've got and attract good people from other units.Furthermore if NATS gets us to move and in no way recompenses us for this extra time on each shift, there's even less chance someone from a lower banded unit, or even similar banded for arguements sake, is going to consider throwing their hat in the ring at LL.
This isn't about what's happened in the past, mistakes were made, it's about learning from the past and supporting your colleagues for the future, if we don't then it'll be the TC boys and gals that get shafted next! And if the band 1-4 units feel so strongly about this or just don't want to offer their suport because we got a better pay deal last time, you lot are also mobile grades so why not apply to join heathrow?
Or is it a lifestyle change you don't fancy but are quite happy to see your colleagues down south get dumped with?
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Yellow Snow
"This arguement about the move, isn't a Band 5 vs the rest of the company arguement, don't be so shallow. Whenever Heathrow has a concern and we ask for your support, are we meant to apologise in advance first, beacause our (Thats yours and mine) union, got Heathrow a good pay deal compared to the Band 1 and 2 units. Would Swanwick, TC and the college also have to come to you cap in hand, head bowed to get any support?
This is an issue about the company screwing us over in the most short sighted manner, if they win this one who's next?"
Shallow, What a cheek! We asked for your support over the banding to vote NO as we were getting a crappy deal. What happened?
As for the company screwing you over and who is next? We have been thoroughly screwed and you could not give a toss so why should we?
I don't think the majority of the Band 5 guys quite realise how bitter the rest of us felt and still feel. This workforce will never stick together as management offer the guys at the top with the bigger voting power the bigger slice of the cake and no-one else can do anything about it. That's a democracy for you. Remember your morals at the next pay negotiations brother!
As for the predictable move to Heathrow crap. A lot of us have family issues that make that extremely awkward. Also most places, you as well I presume, are short of personnel and could not release anyway.
When management and the Union treat us all the same then we will all stick together but it never happens.
After all of my rant I still say I have the upmost sympathy with the EFPS. We have had the CSD, RIMCAS, Tower move, new phraesology not in Mats1 etc to get used to and it has been a complete shambles. I hope your move, apart from the monetary issue, goes smoothly.
By the way, how is Brentford?
"This arguement about the move, isn't a Band 5 vs the rest of the company arguement, don't be so shallow. Whenever Heathrow has a concern and we ask for your support, are we meant to apologise in advance first, beacause our (Thats yours and mine) union, got Heathrow a good pay deal compared to the Band 1 and 2 units. Would Swanwick, TC and the college also have to come to you cap in hand, head bowed to get any support?
This is an issue about the company screwing us over in the most short sighted manner, if they win this one who's next?"
Shallow, What a cheek! We asked for your support over the banding to vote NO as we were getting a crappy deal. What happened?
As for the company screwing you over and who is next? We have been thoroughly screwed and you could not give a toss so why should we?
I don't think the majority of the Band 5 guys quite realise how bitter the rest of us felt and still feel. This workforce will never stick together as management offer the guys at the top with the bigger voting power the bigger slice of the cake and no-one else can do anything about it. That's a democracy for you. Remember your morals at the next pay negotiations brother!
As for the predictable move to Heathrow crap. A lot of us have family issues that make that extremely awkward. Also most places, you as well I presume, are short of personnel and could not release anyway.
When management and the Union treat us all the same then we will all stick together but it never happens.
After all of my rant I still say I have the upmost sympathy with the EFPS. We have had the CSD, RIMCAS, Tower move, new phraesology not in Mats1 etc to get used to and it has been a complete shambles. I hope your move, apart from the monetary issue, goes smoothly.
By the way, how is Brentford?
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Hootin
So by that logic, the entire union votes a majority yes, but this is Heathrows fault!
Do you have the retention and recruitment problems LL has?
To say we didn't give a toss is a bit wide of the mark mate.
Is your bitterness because we're getting more toasters and microwaves in the new tower?
Brentford is sunny today and looks forward to a visit from yourself and good lady in the new year!
We asked for your support over the banding to vote NO as we were getting a crappy deal. What happened?
As for the company screwing you over and who is next? We have been thoroughly screwed and you could not give a toss so why should we?
To say we didn't give a toss is a bit wide of the mark mate.
Is your bitterness because we're getting more toasters and microwaves in the new tower?
Brentford is sunny today and looks forward to a visit from yourself and good lady in the new year!
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Wowsers, I think management's plan to divide and conquer is working. Why can't we just all get along - sod the whole "you're band this I'm band that and so makes you lot a bunch of to$$ers and me the victim".
Most non LL people I know would hate to come to LL because they don't think the extra money warrants the hassle of living in the south/high workload/quality of life etc. But if you want to sail the band 5 seas, join us, (or LACC, TC or the college) and see if the grass is really greener
Most non LL people I know would hate to come to LL because they don't think the extra money warrants the hassle of living in the south/high workload/quality of life etc. But if you want to sail the band 5 seas, join us, (or LACC, TC or the college) and see if the grass is really greener
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"So by that logic, the entire union votes a majority yes, but this is Heathrows fault"
Not what I am saying, but no doubt you voted yes and therefore have a part in it!
"Wowsers, I think management's plan to divide and conquer is working. Why can't we just all get along - sod the whole "you're band this I'm band that and so makes you lot a bunch of to$$ers and me the victim".
Where have you been? It worked when the banding issue was voted in and we have been split ever since. Now everyone below Band 5 is squabling over we should have what they have and we work harder than them etc. Scacc want West Drayton pay, Macc would want that if Scacc got it etc. Don't patronize me with the high moral ground. It's ok when you are sitting at the top of the tree
I believe even Southampton put it to conference to re-look at the banding equation but I don't know where they think they should go.
Not what I am saying, but no doubt you voted yes and therefore have a part in it!
"Wowsers, I think management's plan to divide and conquer is working. Why can't we just all get along - sod the whole "you're band this I'm band that and so makes you lot a bunch of to$$ers and me the victim".
Where have you been? It worked when the banding issue was voted in and we have been split ever since. Now everyone below Band 5 is squabling over we should have what they have and we work harder than them etc. Scacc want West Drayton pay, Macc would want that if Scacc got it etc. Don't patronize me with the high moral ground. It's ok when you are sitting at the top of the tree
I believe even Southampton put it to conference to re-look at the banding equation but I don't know where they think they should go.
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Quite right Hootin,
So what are ''The Creme'' looking for? 1hr extra pay,or a set of climbing boots every 6 months? At what time limit does this kick in?
It's just that people at ''The Scum'' units feel that they have already had their pay cut to fund Band 5 units.
In the real world,our unit can have for example double digit traffic growth,450 movements a day with only 2 VCR controllers,4 runways,4 terminals,the requirement to validate Radar as well.We also have a big staff recruitment and retention problem.Band 2.Do we see the stampede of LL controllers offering support to improve our terms?
Not really.
Hey next time a foot of snow lands on my drive,I'll be bleating about a snowplough allowance cos it took me 40 mins longer to get to work.
Get walking boys and girls.Keep you fit.
So what are ''The Creme'' looking for? 1hr extra pay,or a set of climbing boots every 6 months? At what time limit does this kick in?
It's just that people at ''The Scum'' units feel that they have already had their pay cut to fund Band 5 units.
In the real world,our unit can have for example double digit traffic growth,450 movements a day with only 2 VCR controllers,4 runways,4 terminals,the requirement to validate Radar as well.We also have a big staff recruitment and retention problem.Band 2.Do we see the stampede of LL controllers offering support to improve our terms?
Not really.Hey next time a foot of snow lands on my drive,I'll be bleating about a snowplough allowance cos it took me 40 mins longer to get to work.
Get walking boys and girls.Keep you fit.
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Hootin,
Hypothetically, If Edi tower had gotten a huge payrise relevant to other units are you telling me you would've voted no? Horse's Ar$e you would've
It seems that because the union let you down, then the fault lies at the door of any band 5 unit or controller (presumably because of the large voting block), so whatever gripe they have now or in the future they can go swivel as far as your concerned??? I'm not trying to wind you up just looking for clarafication.
Can you better elaborate or clarify this also as it could be taken the wrong way.
It's not an exclusive party anyone can apply and get on the lift to tree heaven
The above in relation to moving to a band 5 unit, but as a mobile grade you'd have no choice if the company said "We think you've got a lot of potential, you've got 3 months and then you're being transferred to Heathrow/TC/Swanwick"
And finally, Hold at Satan
There's even less chance of our bretheren coming to see if the grass is greener at the top of the tree, if NSL management cannot come up with a long term solution to the extra duty time the new tower forces on us!
Hypothetically, If Edi tower had gotten a huge payrise relevant to other units are you telling me you would've voted no? Horse's Ar$e you would've
It seems that because the union let you down, then the fault lies at the door of any band 5 unit or controller (presumably because of the large voting block), so whatever gripe they have now or in the future they can go swivel as far as your concerned??? I'm not trying to wind you up just looking for clarafication.
I believe even Southampton put it to conference to re-look at the banding equation but I don't know where they think they should go
Don't patronize me with the high moral ground. It's ok when you are sitting at the top of the tree
A lot of us have family issues that make that extremely awkward
And finally, Hold at Satan
Most non LL people I know would hate to come to LL because they don't think the extra money warrants the hassle of living in the south/high workload/quality of life etc. But if you want to sail the band 5 seas, join us, (or LACC, TC or the college) and see if the grass is really greener
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Throw a dyce
No you don't, because it's only on forums like these or over a beer that we find out what your real problems and gripes are. But your comment once again proves my point that your anger is with the band 5 units not the union, who should be doing a better job to let us know what's going on at the units around the country, we shouldn't have to rely on PPrune.
That's just it, we've campaigned for a travellator to be installed linking us direct from the car park, underground to the new tower, with associated bar and snacks on route and a couple of fluffers, so that we all arrive relaxed and ready to work.
Would you believe management rejected it out of hand, and there's me thinking band 5 were special, I might apply to join your unit, if the snow is greener
Do we see the stampede of LL controllers offering support to improve our terms?
Get walking boys and girls.Keep you fit
Would you believe management rejected it out of hand, and there's me thinking band 5 were special, I might apply to join your unit, if the snow is greener
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Yellow Snow
"Hypothetically, If Edi tower had gotten a huge payrise relevant to other units are you telling me you would've voted no? "
It wasn't so a mute point. You all voted yes and split eveyone. Look at the Prospect annual report and conference agenda. Most units are bitching about Banding and see themselves as moving up. Management with the aid of the Union succeeded in splitting us, caused great resentment and I can't see a way back.
"It seems that because the union let you down, then the fault lies at the door of any band 5 unit or controller (presumably because of the large voting block), so whatever gripe they have now or in the future they can go swivel as far as your concerned??? "
Yes. What do you expect me to say. You voted yourselves a huge pay rise and didn't look back at us. So if you have problems can you really blame me for showing no support.
You will find that NEARLY every time someone comes on here saying "isn't it time we forgot the banding squabbling" it usually comes from someone sitting at a Band 5 unit. I'm all right Jack!!!
The only issue we can stay together on is hopefully pensions. However if something crafty is brought in to offer certain units (you can guess which ones they would be) a better deal the same thing will happen again. I'm sure this would not be possible but you never know.
Cheers mate. I'm off to do a bit of radar now as part of my second validation. That's the big screen with strange lines and writing on it!!!
"Hypothetically, If Edi tower had gotten a huge payrise relevant to other units are you telling me you would've voted no? "
It wasn't so a mute point. You all voted yes and split eveyone. Look at the Prospect annual report and conference agenda. Most units are bitching about Banding and see themselves as moving up. Management with the aid of the Union succeeded in splitting us, caused great resentment and I can't see a way back.
"It seems that because the union let you down, then the fault lies at the door of any band 5 unit or controller (presumably because of the large voting block), so whatever gripe they have now or in the future they can go swivel as far as your concerned??? "
Yes. What do you expect me to say. You voted yourselves a huge pay rise and didn't look back at us. So if you have problems can you really blame me for showing no support.
You will find that NEARLY every time someone comes on here saying "isn't it time we forgot the banding squabbling" it usually comes from someone sitting at a Band 5 unit. I'm all right Jack!!!
The only issue we can stay together on is hopefully pensions. However if something crafty is brought in to offer certain units (you can guess which ones they would be) a better deal the same thing will happen again. I'm sure this would not be possible but you never know.
Cheers mate. I'm off to do a bit of radar now as part of my second validation. That's the big screen with strange lines and writing on it!!!
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Sorry guys, been away for the last 24hrs. 
Just have to clairfy something, Hootin'.......
I said compensation. I belive the original request from Prospoect was TOIL. I am thinking of adequate compensation, whichever form it comes in.
Just have to clairfy something, Hootin'.......
If I have misunderstood this comment by you earlier on this page then I apologise, but mentioning pay surely suggests you are thinking of money.
"Really, I'm at a loss to explain the reaction here regarding any compensation for increased travelling time. Is anyone at another unit going to get a pay cut if it goes ahead?"
"Really, I'm at a loss to explain the reaction here regarding any compensation for increased travelling time. Is anyone at another unit going to get a pay cut if it goes ahead?"
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I know,you could get a company rickshaw.Get the trainees or Band 1&2 controllers down for some TOIL,and pull you guys along to your new golf tee.Send them out on cha runs to keep their masters happy.
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You're a mobile grade aren't you? The company is mobilising you airside.It's not like you're being moved the 200 or so miles that the MACC guys are being moved.
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It's more like 30 minutes inbound to work, and 20 minutes outbound. If your management arbitrarily decided to increase your shift lenghts by those times, would you all just accept, or negotiate compensation? If they posted you to PF from PH, would you not anticipate a relocation package?
5 bands are too many; there should be 3 at the most, and the all too huge differentials between 1 and 3 should be reduced, otherwise no-one will want to go to the lowest band units, hence lack of experienced people to be transferred to higher banded units when needed.
