NATS UK ATCO Pay offer: What do you think?
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Costa del Swanwick
Posts: 834
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry about the reply Quince but that is the way of the world. NATS has for too long had a truly enviable initial package for trainees that until a couple of years ago allowed someone to be earning around £30k/year without them ever having validated. The training bills including salaries were going through the roof with only around 65% validating at their 1st unit. The last pay deal and this one if it goes through will cut salaries in the early stages in return for a faster progression to a much higher final salary.
NATS is no different to any other employer in that it wants value for money whilst training students but rewards those that make it, reasonably well. Airlines often make student pilots pay for their own training and then bond them as well. Well we aren't quite there yet but I think bonding would be a sensible way to go for what is now a profit-making organisation,whether we like it or not.
My understanding is that the salary is £10k PLUS £100/week for living expenses.
The bands do go 1-5.
1 is the quieter units going upto 5 at LACC/LTCC and Heathrow.
If this latest offer goes through then top of the scale at 1 will be around £56k basic and at band 5 around £80k basic. A band 5 after 5 years in the job is over £50k. So you see how it rises quickly provided you pass the course and validate.
NATS is no different to any other employer in that it wants value for money whilst training students but rewards those that make it, reasonably well. Airlines often make student pilots pay for their own training and then bond them as well. Well we aren't quite there yet but I think bonding would be a sensible way to go for what is now a profit-making organisation,whether we like it or not.
My understanding is that the salary is £10k PLUS £100/week for living expenses.
The bands do go 1-5.
1 is the quieter units going upto 5 at LACC/LTCC and Heathrow.
If this latest offer goes through then top of the scale at 1 will be around £56k basic and at band 5 around £80k basic. A band 5 after 5 years in the job is over £50k. So you see how it rises quickly provided you pass the course and validate.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Swanwick
Age: 44
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
250Kts
You're living on a different planet. You're right in the fact that you can't do this job purely for the money. However, you also can't survive at the college on 10k. The college is very intense and can be very stressful. To bond with your course, and to relax, which i feel is essential to get through, means going out every now and then with your course mates. On that wage, you wont be able to afford to do anything but work. I wouldn't have got through and validated in that situation. In fact, most of my course wouldn't have.
We may well be saving money, but i believe the pass rate at the college will unbelieveably go down even further than the pathetic figure it's at at the moment. This lower pay will not attract the right people.
You're living on a different planet. You're right in the fact that you can't do this job purely for the money. However, you also can't survive at the college on 10k. The college is very intense and can be very stressful. To bond with your course, and to relax, which i feel is essential to get through, means going out every now and then with your course mates. On that wage, you wont be able to afford to do anything but work. I wouldn't have got through and validated in that situation. In fact, most of my course wouldn't have.
We may well be saving money, but i believe the pass rate at the college will unbelieveably go down even further than the pathetic figure it's at at the moment. This lower pay will not attract the right people.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Up North
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
YourFriendlyATCO!
"You're living on a different planet. You're right in the fact that you can't do this job purely for the money. However, you also can't survive at the college on 10k. "
This really winds me up. I 'survived' for a number of years (and not that long ago) as an RAF assistant on just over 13 grand a year. I travelled home every weekend and went out on the pop every now and again. 15 grand means you can't go out and get trolleyed every night. TOUGH! Stay in and do bookwork and work hard for a year and occasionally go out and 'bond' with your course.
You may be right and the money might not attract as many applicants however it may just attract the RIGHT person who can see beyond the initial wage and is really interested in becoming a controller and will work their n**s off at the college. The reward for the hard work will soon come back to them.
p.s. 80 grand at band 5 units, different world!
"You're living on a different planet. You're right in the fact that you can't do this job purely for the money. However, you also can't survive at the college on 10k. "
This really winds me up. I 'survived' for a number of years (and not that long ago) as an RAF assistant on just over 13 grand a year. I travelled home every weekend and went out on the pop every now and again. 15 grand means you can't go out and get trolleyed every night. TOUGH! Stay in and do bookwork and work hard for a year and occasionally go out and 'bond' with your course.
You may be right and the money might not attract as many applicants however it may just attract the RIGHT person who can see beyond the initial wage and is really interested in becoming a controller and will work their n**s off at the college. The reward for the hard work will soon come back to them.
p.s. 80 grand at band 5 units, different world!
I say there boy
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 1,065
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As someone who joined NATS "of a certain age", I can honestly say that the new pay scheme would put me off applying now.
A year or so on ten grand plus WAP whilst in the college I could manage, although it will no doubt be a barrier to some. For me that's an affordable hit and one definitely worth taking.
It's the removal of the ATCO (T&D) grade for a super-TATC grade whilst unit training that would really put me off. I really could not support my young family on ~£16k pa with no UHP in this part of the world for up to two further years after college. Compare that to the old scale £27k pa gross ATCO T&D pay for those training at certain Thames Valley units.
My own opinion is that these pay plans will change the demographics of applicants to being almost exclusively those in their late teens/early twenties: that seems strange when supposedly NATS is trying to encourage us oldies into the job as we're perceived as a lower training risk.
Therefore I voted no. Sure, the pay's good when you validate, but this whole deal appears to be a reverse Robin Hood: taking an obscenely large percentage from those on the lowest pay, to whom the money matters the most, to give it to the highest paid.
Finally the new pay scales may present NATS with an interesting problem for airports rated trainees. £35 - 40k has been on the table recently at non-state airports for those fresh from college with both ratings. Retention post college could become a real problem for those with certain ratings: leave NATS and your pay more than doubles.
Edited for speeelinggg
A year or so on ten grand plus WAP whilst in the college I could manage, although it will no doubt be a barrier to some. For me that's an affordable hit and one definitely worth taking.
It's the removal of the ATCO (T&D) grade for a super-TATC grade whilst unit training that would really put me off. I really could not support my young family on ~£16k pa with no UHP in this part of the world for up to two further years after college. Compare that to the old scale £27k pa gross ATCO T&D pay for those training at certain Thames Valley units.
My own opinion is that these pay plans will change the demographics of applicants to being almost exclusively those in their late teens/early twenties: that seems strange when supposedly NATS is trying to encourage us oldies into the job as we're perceived as a lower training risk.
Therefore I voted no. Sure, the pay's good when you validate, but this whole deal appears to be a reverse Robin Hood: taking an obscenely large percentage from those on the lowest pay, to whom the money matters the most, to give it to the highest paid.
Finally the new pay scales may present NATS with an interesting problem for airports rated trainees. £35 - 40k has been on the table recently at non-state airports for those fresh from college with both ratings. Retention post college could become a real problem for those with certain ratings: leave NATS and your pay more than doubles.
Edited for speeelinggg
Last edited by foghorn; 1st Feb 2006 at 11:33.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ?
Posts: 335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hootin an a roarin,
Correct me if i'm wrong but if you were living in barracks at your unit then you would have had subsidised accom and food (taken direct from wages). If you weren't in barracks (ie there weren't any) and off camp then you would also be subsidised.
Also you say you travelled home every weekend - true that doesn't cost a lot, but from what i remember you either walked to work (in barracks) or MT was provided if you lived off camp.
you also probably drank in the NAFFI at subsidised rates, etc i could go on forever.
A trainee at the college on £10k who HAS to buy food, pay rent, get to the college etc etc.
I think your argument is a bit ropey!!
Sorry - don't think there is really a comparrison
Correct me if i'm wrong but if you were living in barracks at your unit then you would have had subsidised accom and food (taken direct from wages). If you weren't in barracks (ie there weren't any) and off camp then you would also be subsidised.
Also you say you travelled home every weekend - true that doesn't cost a lot, but from what i remember you either walked to work (in barracks) or MT was provided if you lived off camp.
you also probably drank in the NAFFI at subsidised rates, etc i could go on forever.
A trainee at the college on £10k who HAS to buy food, pay rent, get to the college etc etc.
I think your argument is a bit ropey!!
Sorry - don't think there is really a comparrison
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 531
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by YourFriendlyATCO!
250Kts
You're living on a different planet. You're right in the fact that you can't do this job purely for the money. However, you also can't survive at the college on 10k. The college is very intense and can be very stressful. To bond with your course, and to relax, which i feel is essential to get through, means going out every now and then with your course mates. On that wage, you wont be able to afford to do anything but work. I wouldn't have got through and validated in that situation. In fact, most of my course wouldn't have.
We may well be saving money, but i believe the pass rate at the college will unbelieveably go down even further than the pathetic figure it's at at the moment. This lower pay will not attract the right people.
You're living on a different planet. You're right in the fact that you can't do this job purely for the money. However, you also can't survive at the college on 10k. The college is very intense and can be very stressful. To bond with your course, and to relax, which i feel is essential to get through, means going out every now and then with your course mates. On that wage, you wont be able to afford to do anything but work. I wouldn't have got through and validated in that situation. In fact, most of my course wouldn't have.
We may well be saving money, but i believe the pass rate at the college will unbelieveably go down even further than the pathetic figure it's at at the moment. This lower pay will not attract the right people.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Up North
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
tired-flyboy
The trainees will get an allowance on top of the 10 grand to pay rent as I did when I was at the college. Rest of the money to do with as they please and if they want to go on the pop then that is up to them. I was simply making the point that not everyone who joins NATS is coming from a background of a well paid job and the whingeing is making it sound like the students are going to be on the breadline. It WILL deter some but I would have still gone down to the college as I always wanted to be a controller and would hope others feel the same way.
Don't get me wrong I am not a fan of this current crop of management and this system may be yet another mistake.
By the way travelling home in the RAF can cost a lot if you are based at Odiham and live in say Sheffield, plus MT transport to camp, I did 6 years in the RAF and never heard of it, you walked or drove. NAAFI prices weren't overly cheap but other bars on camp were but alot of the time we went into town. My point being that I wasn't rolling in cash but I managed and didn't live on the breadline.
The trainees will get an allowance on top of the 10 grand to pay rent as I did when I was at the college. Rest of the money to do with as they please and if they want to go on the pop then that is up to them. I was simply making the point that not everyone who joins NATS is coming from a background of a well paid job and the whingeing is making it sound like the students are going to be on the breadline. It WILL deter some but I would have still gone down to the college as I always wanted to be a controller and would hope others feel the same way.
Don't get me wrong I am not a fan of this current crop of management and this system may be yet another mistake.
By the way travelling home in the RAF can cost a lot if you are based at Odiham and live in say Sheffield, plus MT transport to camp, I did 6 years in the RAF and never heard of it, you walked or drove. NAAFI prices weren't overly cheap but other bars on camp were but alot of the time we went into town. My point being that I wasn't rolling in cash but I managed and didn't live on the breadline.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Swanwick
Age: 44
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I said "bond and go out with your course every now and then". I never mentioned anything about drinking. It is possible to do other things to bond as a course than become an alcoholic.
And you want people to study their nuts off doing bookwork every night?? Well, the people on the new courses are doing just that at the moment, and the pass rate has gone down even further to less than 50% getting through every course. On Area One 10 people passed out of a course of 24 i think it is.
And you want people to study their nuts off doing bookwork every night?? Well, the people on the new courses are doing just that at the moment, and the pass rate has gone down even further to less than 50% getting through every course. On Area One 10 people passed out of a course of 24 i think it is.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
10k a year works out at abour £833 a month before deductions, take off 6% for pension leaves £785 per month then take off tax, I reckon you'll be luck to see much over £700 net. (works out as £5.20 an hour for 40 hour week)
Now this is a decent enough amount of monet to live on a month for a single bloke. Assuming you can find somewhere to stay for £100 a week ( when i was at the college the average rent for a decent B&B was already reaching that and will probably be more than that now)
There is now no paid trips home, so if you have an applicant with a family then they will be going home every weekend - part of the responsibilty of being a parent. Depending on where you live that could be very expensive.
Also think about those who would want to apply as a change of career would probably be taking a pay cut. I assume this because 10,000 a year is less than i was earning in a call centre before I joined NATS 6 years ago.
Now this is a decent enough amount of monet to live on a month for a single bloke. Assuming you can find somewhere to stay for £100 a week ( when i was at the college the average rent for a decent B&B was already reaching that and will probably be more than that now)
There is now no paid trips home, so if you have an applicant with a family then they will be going home every weekend - part of the responsibilty of being a parent. Depending on where you live that could be very expensive.
Also think about those who would want to apply as a change of career would probably be taking a pay cut. I assume this because 10,000 a year is less than i was earning in a call centre before I joined NATS 6 years ago.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hill Valley
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pilots, lawyers, teachers, doctors and accountants
All these professions require fine minds (well, the last 4 do!) and all as far as i am aware pay a pittance or less than a pittance (or make you pay them £50,000 and be bonded) until you are fully qualified. Then it is understood that the cash will roll in as you are of some use to the company.
I can see the main beef with the reduction of salary, but no other industry pays people while they train as I am aware to the same extent as NATS, and most of it just gets pi$$ed up the wall in Bournemouth.
The money spent on wasted wages on trainees who didnt make it was always going to be earmarked as an area for sorting out.
let the debate rage on!
as an aside an awful lot of voting slips are sat untouched in the post room in a band 4 centre near old trafford!
All these professions require fine minds (well, the last 4 do!) and all as far as i am aware pay a pittance or less than a pittance (or make you pay them £50,000 and be bonded) until you are fully qualified. Then it is understood that the cash will roll in as you are of some use to the company.
I can see the main beef with the reduction of salary, but no other industry pays people while they train as I am aware to the same extent as NATS, and most of it just gets pi$$ed up the wall in Bournemouth.
The money spent on wasted wages on trainees who didnt make it was always going to be earmarked as an area for sorting out.
let the debate rage on!
as an aside an awful lot of voting slips are sat untouched in the post room in a band 4 centre near old trafford!
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Box Hill or Bust
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by foghorn
Finally the new pay scales may present NATS with an interesting problem for airports rated trainees. £35 - 40k has been on the table recently at non-state airports for those fresh from college with both ratings. Retention post college could become a real problem for those with certain ratings: leave NATS and your pay more than doubles.
I say there boy
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 1,065
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Hooligan Bill
But more often than not these rates only apply to experienced ATCOs or post validation for those without any experience...
As I said, £35-40k has been on the table recently for those fresh from college with both ratings but no civilian ATC experience nor validations. If it's not an aberration, it could be a sign of the market waking up to the future of not having a steady supply of rated NATS rejects to hire.
Anyway, as has been said, recruitment and retention are really management problems.
Last edited by foghorn; 2nd Feb 2006 at 09:05.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Hampshire
Age: 50
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
YourFriendlyATCO said:-
"I said "bond and go out with your course every now and then". I never mentioned anything about drinking. It is possible to do other things to bond as a course than become an alcoholic."
Yeah!!, we all know what other things go on at the college in order to bond with ones coursemates
Spamcan
"I said "bond and go out with your course every now and then". I never mentioned anything about drinking. It is possible to do other things to bond as a course than become an alcoholic."
Yeah!!, we all know what other things go on at the college in order to bond with ones coursemates
Spamcan
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just to throw some more wood on the fire.....
I heard that the new pay deal also precluded payment of WAP! ie £10k + sod all. Then again....seeing as the union can't even agree on the details of the new OJTI payments (paperwork says 0.05% of QUARTERLY salary per hour, reps say 0.05% of ANNUAL!?!?!) it doesn't surpirse me that there is some uncertainty about it
I agree that 10k will put off A LOT of students who are moving from other jobs, have familes and mortgages to pay. Please stop saying that lawyers/pliots/doctors etc etc have to put up with a pay cut or a bonded period....in the MAJORITY of cases in those industries, the individual is pretty much guaranteed a job at the end of their training.....there's always a risk but would you honestly give up a steady salary, move away from your family and take out a loan just to put yourself through college where, even with all the effort in the world you stand only a 50/50 chance of ending up as a vaild controller? I can't see many doing it....leads to less applicants....with a constant rate at the college leads to lower quality students.....leads to harder OJTI workload and fewer validations.....leads to more work for those of us that are valid and....later retirement
As an aside.....can you really trust a union that doesn't even know it's own pay deal? I know the negotiators put a lot of time and effort into getting us these deals and I'm sure they honestly believe they are acting with the best will, but maybe it's time to bite the bullet and pay for some professional negotiaters to get us the deal WE want....stand back and light the touchpaper
I heard that the new pay deal also precluded payment of WAP! ie £10k + sod all. Then again....seeing as the union can't even agree on the details of the new OJTI payments (paperwork says 0.05% of QUARTERLY salary per hour, reps say 0.05% of ANNUAL!?!?!) it doesn't surpirse me that there is some uncertainty about it
I agree that 10k will put off A LOT of students who are moving from other jobs, have familes and mortgages to pay. Please stop saying that lawyers/pliots/doctors etc etc have to put up with a pay cut or a bonded period....in the MAJORITY of cases in those industries, the individual is pretty much guaranteed a job at the end of their training.....there's always a risk but would you honestly give up a steady salary, move away from your family and take out a loan just to put yourself through college where, even with all the effort in the world you stand only a 50/50 chance of ending up as a vaild controller? I can't see many doing it....leads to less applicants....with a constant rate at the college leads to lower quality students.....leads to harder OJTI workload and fewer validations.....leads to more work for those of us that are valid and....later retirement
As an aside.....can you really trust a union that doesn't even know it's own pay deal? I know the negotiators put a lot of time and effort into getting us these deals and I'm sure they honestly believe they are acting with the best will, but maybe it's time to bite the bullet and pay for some professional negotiaters to get us the deal WE want....stand back and light the touchpaper
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: somewhere out there
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I heard that the new pay deal also precluded payment of WAP! ie £10k + sod all
What is known is that it will be a tax efficient maximum of £10, 000. Whether that means it is all paid as a salary of £10k or a salary of £4k with the difference being made up of an allowance is still being finalised by the accountants.
What you can be sure of though is that the £10k recived by a student at CATC will be the 'salary' that accrues the least amount of tax for both NATS and the individual concerend.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: A galaxy far far away
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nick Falzone
"Pilots, lawyers, teachers, doctors and accountants
All these professions require fine minds (well, the last 4 do!) and all as far as i am aware pay a pittance or less than a pittance (or make you pay them £50,000 and be bonded) until you are fully qualified. Then it is understood that the cash will roll in as you are of some use to the company."
As far as I was concerned the last 4 on your list (dont know much about trainee pilots) would spend the majority of their pre-qualified time at university earning a degree in Law, accounting, medicine or teaching. There they would recieve grants, student loans and in the case of teachers a hefty cash payment to entice them into the job. For the most part these folks will be young, single students and making do on a pittance of an allowance while still finding enough money to go on the pi$$ every 3rd day is an essential skill every student develops.
As Stranex said the majority of these people will have a guaranteed job after uni.
Its all well and good saying that a lower starting salary will attract people who really want to be controllers and can see past the initial salary but 10K is a joke, as its been pointed out a single guy/gal can probably make do if (s)he lives a frugal lifestyle, but there is no way in hell that you could afford to support a family or pay a mortgage on that pittance along with living at the college.
On a different note, does anyone know if students at the college will be eligible to apply for student grants/loans?
"Pilots, lawyers, teachers, doctors and accountants
All these professions require fine minds (well, the last 4 do!) and all as far as i am aware pay a pittance or less than a pittance (or make you pay them £50,000 and be bonded) until you are fully qualified. Then it is understood that the cash will roll in as you are of some use to the company."
As far as I was concerned the last 4 on your list (dont know much about trainee pilots) would spend the majority of their pre-qualified time at university earning a degree in Law, accounting, medicine or teaching. There they would recieve grants, student loans and in the case of teachers a hefty cash payment to entice them into the job. For the most part these folks will be young, single students and making do on a pittance of an allowance while still finding enough money to go on the pi$$ every 3rd day is an essential skill every student develops.
As Stranex said the majority of these people will have a guaranteed job after uni.
Its all well and good saying that a lower starting salary will attract people who really want to be controllers and can see past the initial salary but 10K is a joke, as its been pointed out a single guy/gal can probably make do if (s)he lives a frugal lifestyle, but there is no way in hell that you could afford to support a family or pay a mortgage on that pittance along with living at the college.
On a different note, does anyone know if students at the college will be eligible to apply for student grants/loans?
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hill Valley
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Am entirely open to correction, but as I understood it
PILOTS- paid nowt as they train up (for upward of a 1.5 years) and in fact have to find sometimes 50k to pay for their training.
LAWYERS - law degree at uni, then law school (no pay, ok a student loan which you have to pay back, and if you fail then you have no job), then 2 years on a meagre salary to qualify on the job, as it were. once again, if you dont make the grade you will be asked to leave.
TEACHERS - degree at uni. then a pgce course for a year, pittance of a wage, and not much of an increase once you are qualified, if you do not pass you dont get a job.
DOCTORS - 6 year degree course on standard student conditions, if you fail you wont get a job
ACCOUNTANTS - degree at university, then pretty craply paid until qualified which can be upto 2 years until exams are passed, if you dont pass them, you're out.
Grants are based on parents income at uni, so dont count on getting that, loans need paying back.
If ATC was thought of like law college no-one would be moaning.
None of these other careers "guarantee" jobs, and maybe NATS has thought that they would rather attract younger people from uni etc, as they will be a longer return on their investment.
Turn up at the college , work hard, get a half decent wage for being what is essentially a student, then when you pass the sky's the limit.
Anyone considering a later in life career change knows the pitfalls, who would pay a controller even a third of what they earn now if you started a new job?? How could you pay that mortgage? You couldn't, so NATS is no different.
I think with the courses being shorter (and once they are actually working, ad teaching correct foundations) it's not such a hugely bad idea.
Show me the money, Jerry!!
PILOTS- paid nowt as they train up (for upward of a 1.5 years) and in fact have to find sometimes 50k to pay for their training.
LAWYERS - law degree at uni, then law school (no pay, ok a student loan which you have to pay back, and if you fail then you have no job), then 2 years on a meagre salary to qualify on the job, as it were. once again, if you dont make the grade you will be asked to leave.
TEACHERS - degree at uni. then a pgce course for a year, pittance of a wage, and not much of an increase once you are qualified, if you do not pass you dont get a job.
DOCTORS - 6 year degree course on standard student conditions, if you fail you wont get a job
ACCOUNTANTS - degree at university, then pretty craply paid until qualified which can be upto 2 years until exams are passed, if you dont pass them, you're out.
Grants are based on parents income at uni, so dont count on getting that, loans need paying back.
If ATC was thought of like law college no-one would be moaning.
None of these other careers "guarantee" jobs, and maybe NATS has thought that they would rather attract younger people from uni etc, as they will be a longer return on their investment.
Turn up at the college , work hard, get a half decent wage for being what is essentially a student, then when you pass the sky's the limit.
Anyone considering a later in life career change knows the pitfalls, who would pay a controller even a third of what they earn now if you started a new job?? How could you pay that mortgage? You couldn't, so NATS is no different.
I think with the courses being shorter (and once they are actually working, ad teaching correct foundations) it's not such a hugely bad idea.
Show me the money, Jerry!!
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: I Wish I Knew
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Perhaps if they made the training more effective we wouldn't lose so many people in the first place. A union should be there to protect the most vulnerable workers, not just to grab more money from any available source for the highest paid & most influential.
What this comes down to is conscience, & who will be the next vulnerable minority in need of the vaseline?
What this comes down to is conscience, & who will be the next vulnerable minority in need of the vaseline?
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Scotland
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sorry, can't let that one pass....
vulnerable workers? get out into the real world, talk about:
ATCO salaries...
allowances...
hours you work and the time off you get...
job security of a valid ATCO...
... to people having to work long hours to feed a family on genuinely low wages in any other employment sector, and ask them how vulnerable they think you are!
vulnerable workers? get out into the real world, talk about:
ATCO salaries...
allowances...
hours you work and the time off you get...
job security of a valid ATCO...
... to people having to work long hours to feed a family on genuinely low wages in any other employment sector, and ask them how vulnerable they think you are!